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michael jordan, Ralph Sampson, Akeem Olajuwon, Kevin Durant, JJ redick and Tyler Hansbrough say hello

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Lew Alcinder or Bill Walton is probably the answer to this question.

As a HUGE Duke fan for the past 25 years I think it's cool that some think Laettner should be in the conversation. And like the poster above said, Durant shouldn't be in the conversation. Reddick was awesome to watch, but doesn't have near the body of work that Laettner had (same can be said for Hansbrough).

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Lew Alcinder or Bill Walton is probably the answer to this question.

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They are not the answer because my comment was the best of the last 30 years. Those guys were closer to 40 years ago. I almost count the post UCLA run as a seperate era. After UCLA there was much more parity in college basketball.

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- Other than the UCLA freshman team with Lew Alcindor, there has probably never been a team so young & talented

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2003 Syracuse says What Up!


Not quite the same as the Fab 5...but not quite the same because they actually won the national title....and went through a murderers row to win it all.

2003 Syracuse starting lineup

Carmello Anthony- Freshman
Gerry McNamara- Freshman
Hakeem Warrick- Sophomore
Craig Forth- Sophomore
Keith Duany- Senior

Key Reserves
Billy Edelin- Freshman
Josh Pace- Sophomore

The 2003 Syracuse had 7 guys that got the bulk of playing time.
3 Freshman
3 Sophomores
1 Senior

They went through Auburn, Okie St, Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas on their way to winning it all.

That Syracuse team was obviously a good team, but they didn't even have the best recruiting haul that year overall. Carmelo was a clear superstar and the best player in college basketball as a freshman, but that team was full of roll players.

One team/class that doesn't get enough mention is UNC's freshmen class that same year (HS grad class of 2002). Ray Felton, Sean May, and Rashad McCants were all McDonald's All-Americans and terrific in college. They won a national championship as juniors and all got drafted in the first round.

Duke's 1997 freshmen were also stacked. Chris Burgess, Elton Brand and Shane Battier were also all McDonald's All-American. Shane/Duke went on to win the NC in 2001.

I didn't see the documentary, but from the previews, I thought the cultural effect the Fab 5 had on the game was way overblown. I remember watching them their first 2 years, thinking that they were far too young to win a national championship, but being impressed with their talent. But I never noticed the color of their shoes, the length of their shorts, and couldn't care one bit about their music tastes. They were the same black kids that I had been watching play ball at A&M for the previous 10 years - they were just more talented and there were 5 of them together. I never even considered that the Fab 5 was about the Fab 5; from day one I remember the big story - how did Steve Fisher get 5 guys this good at the same time?

I am with 94 on this. The show and surrounding commentary makes me wonder what I was missing at the time re: Duke versus UM as some kind of social mirror. I hated both. I couldn't stand Laetner and Hurley individually and didn't like Michigan as a school.
From a socio-cultural perspective, UNLV-Duke seems like more of a dividing point - you clearly have race, class and academics in the convo with these two schools. Did anyone see the HBO doc on UNLV this weekend? I concur about the Whitlock article.

Agreed.


I also think one could make a similar argument with UNLV or Phi Slamma Jama or even Georgetown.

Iowa,

As an aside, I remember sometime in the mid-80's when somebody told me that Georgetown was an elite white school. I had no idea. I thought it was like Grambling or Prairie View. I can't be the only kid who thought that.

I remember disliking Michigan with the Fab 5. It was very easy to see their incredible talent level though.

Now as far a Georgetown, I always disliked John Thompson. He assembled some great talent, but he always struck as a racist.

I've gotta admit that my Georgetown comment was much more shallow and less socially impactful than what you guys are suggesting. Instead it was more along the uniform line that the Fab 5 claimed to revolutionize.


They were the first college team I remember that wore t-shirts under the uniform (or at least it wasn't some pasty white kid covering his back acne with a t-shirt)

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I always disliked John Thompson. He assembled some great talent, but he always struck as a racist.

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He called the NCAA racist for reducing scholarships to 12 from 13, or whatever the number was. It gave him one less chance to "rescue" a disadvantaged black kid. He viewed himself as the Oskar Schindler of the inner city. He was, in reality, much closer to Quannell X.

Yankees

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michael jordan, Ralph Sampson, Akeem Olajuwon, Kevin Durant, JJ redick and Tyler Hansbrough say hello

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Christian Laettner as far as a college career is among the top 4-5 guys ever. I would not put any of those guys in your list any where near that group for Career achievement (TH is probably the closest). Some of those guys you named only played 1-2 years and did not win squat.

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College career

Laettner attended Duke University, and played for the Duke Blue Devils men's basketball team. He is one of only four players (including teammates Greg Koubek and Brian Davis) to play in four consecutive Final Fours, and the only one to ever start in all four Final Fours. He owns the record for most tournament games played, with 23, out of a maximum possible of 24 in 4 years (excluding the four play-in games that exist as of 2011). Laettner's #32 jersey was retired in 1992, making him the sixth of thirteen players so honored by Duke.[3] He averaged 16.6 points and 7.7 rebounds per game at Duke and is the all-time three-point shooting percentage leader at Duke with 48.5%.

NCAA Tournament Records Held:

* Most points scored: 407[4]
* Most free throws made: 142
* Most free throw attempts: 167
* Most games played: 23

Laettner is especially known for his game-winning last-second jump shot on March 28 in Duke's dramatic 104–103 victory over Kentucky in the East regional final, played at The Spectrum in Philadelphia, of the 1992 NCAA Tournament, acclaimed by many[5] as the "greatest college basketball game ever played."

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How about UofH with Clyde and the dream on the same team and a solid supporting cast.

grant hill's NYT piece responding is a must read

Link?!

Google wins

Edit: After reading...damn.

That was a pretty poetic beat down, and an even better universal message. Props to GH.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/16/2011 2:05p).]

While it was a well written piece, it was kind of uneccessary. Jalen Rose's comments were those made at the age of 18, not present day.

A great response by Grant Hill. Yes the article was needed because Jalen, Jimmy, and Ray are not really backing off of their uncle tom comments. The last line is my favorite.

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I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.

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All 4 fab 5 members who narrated that documentary went out of their ways to call Duke a great team and every one of their players exceptional players. They were clearly giving their thoughts in the context of their frame of mind as they remembered it when they were 18 or 19 years-old. People do this all the time in documentaries.

For those saying that the Fab 5 really weren't as influential as they were remembered in the documentary, I find it funny that there are so many people who have actually posted on this board who never post here just to discuss it. Big time proof how influential they were as the documentary itself really wasn't that controversial. The Fab 5 probably had a bigger single cultural impact on how the game is played than almost anything else in the last 20 years. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

So if Rose thought Laettner was a f*ggot in 92, should he have said that in the documentary?

Rose knew he was wrong. thats why he apologized to Hill before it even aired.

"Duke v Michigan" is a classic example of substance v style, adult v. child

They were not original.

And Pete Maravich was the best college player ever.

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And Pete Maravich was the best college player ever

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As far as individual statistics go, you're right. Body of work with regards to individual stats + wins/titles/Final Fours, etc. he's lacking.

But apparently, to some of these guys, college basketball didn't exist before 1980 so like Lew Alcinder and Bill Walton, Maravich doesn't count. (insert eye-roll here).

And I'm with the guy above...if it was so clear that Jalen and Jimmy were referring to how they felt in 1991, then why was it necessary to apologize? They could have left it with "We HATED Duke....we LOATHED Duke...I wasn't recruited by Duke so I didn't like them". Most of America would have known exactly what they meant.

And this is COMPLETE guess work, but I would be shocked out of my shoes if Coach K didn't try to recruit AT LEAST Chris Webber.

And did Bobby Hurley really say that about Jalen not playing? If so....that's AWESOME!!!

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So if Rose thought Laettner was a f*ggot in 92, should he have said that in the documentary?

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Absolutely. It authenticated their state of mind and thinking 19 years earlier. The point of saying that is to give you the frame of mind as to WHY these guys hated Duke so much be it right or wrong. In a way, it helps you understand the immaturity of 19 year-old group-think. If they don't do that, what the hell's the point of a documentary itself? I think a lot of people, including Grant Hill, are making a way bigger deal out of that then it should be.

On a big stage, was that team very original? Maybe not. Incredibly influential though? Yes.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 3/16/2011 2:55p).]

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The Fab 5 probably had a bigger single cultural impact on how the game is played than almost anything else in the last 20 years.

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Whoa. On how the players look and act, yes. On how the game is played? No. The Runnin' Rebels and Phi Slamma Jamma were doing what the Fab Five were doing before they did it and better than they did it.

uncle tom is the absoulte worst thing a black person can be called is a proposition Rose agreed with.

Hill is overeacting at all. he is pointing out the absurdity of Rose's position, whether it is one is has now or had when he was 17.

Phi Slamma Jamma happened in the last 20 years? News to me. As far as the Runnin' Rebels go, maybe... but I was talking more about the swagger aspect of how the game is viewed and how players play today.

UNLV actually beat Duke. Larry Johnson was Blake Griffin with a gold tooth. Plastic Man was Hakim Warrick on crack. Greg Anthony was nails at point. It was basically a dunk fest in Vegas and their coach was nicknamed the Shark.

I love that Michigan team but their swagger wasn't anything compared to UNLV. Michigan just talked more ****.

They were certainly talented. But let's not go crazy. The Pittino Kentucky teams just a few years later had way more talent on them. They weren't all one single class, but they were heads and shoulders better.

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UNLV actually beat Duke. Larry Johnson was Blake Griffin with a gold tooth. Plastic Man was Hakim Warrick on crack. Greg Anthony was nails at point. It was basically a dunk fest in Vegas and their coach was nicknamed the Shark.

I love that Michigan team but their swagger wasn't anything compared to UNLV. Michigan just talked more ****.

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Man I was just thinking this same thing. I'm a huge Duke fan, and have been since the late 80', but I remember watching that UNLV over Duke final thinking "How did this team lose a game?". And the next year, they didn't....until they met Duke in the semi-finals

They had the swagger and "street" ball that Michigan had...and the title to back it up.

Stacy Augmon...LJ...Greg Anthony...Anderson Hunt...George Ackles....WOW

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But apparently, to some of these guys, college basketball didn't exist before 1980 so like Lew Alcinder and Bill Walton, Maravich doesn't count. (insert eye-roll here).

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OK drama queen.... nobody was saying it didn't exist before 1980. I was the one who made the 30 year cutoff. That was done only to try to seperate eras... not to say it didn't exist before then.

On a different topic...
The memory plays trick on you, but I don't remember teams being intimidated by Michigan like they were of UNLV. I rooted for Duke over UNLV, but UNLV was a bunch of studs at the time.

LOL @ Kentucky. Those teams were cohesive and well-coached. They weren't as stacked as Michigan was. The only player for Kentucky that made any kind of impact professionally in the 90's was Jamal Mashburn and the Fab Five ran through that team.

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The only player for Kentucky that made any kind of impact professionally in the 90's was Jamal Mashburn and the Fab Five ran through that team.

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Antoine Walker and Derek Anderson were around for a LONG time in the NBA. Tony Delk played several years as well...but didn't have the resume that the other 2 had.

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LOL @ Kentucky. Those teams were cohesive and well-coached. They weren't as stacked as Michigan was. The only player for Kentucky that made any kind of impact professionally in the 90's was Jamal Mashburn and the Fab Five ran through that team.

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You might wanna rethink that.

The 1996 Kentucky team was absolutely loaded and they are considered one of the best national title teams of all time.

Came this close to winning three national titles in a row.

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OK drama queen.... nobody was saying it didn't exist before 1980. I was the one who made the 30 year cutoff. That was done only to try to seperate eras... not to say it didn't exist before then.

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Give Pete the 3 point line and there is no question....... 60 point per game?