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in a league full of Divas.

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Post 2000 yes
Pre 2000. No

Has anyone mentioned Paul pierce... That guy is annoying as **** with his flops and facial expressions... Acts like a b*tch all the time

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Some Rockets and Mavs fans are so blinded by their hatred of the Spurs that they can't see the obvious about Bowen.

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This reads like a troll post. It's incredibly stupid.

Bowen did work hard on defense. Doesn't mean he didn't intentionally try to hurt players - which he did. He did the ankle thing to Vince Carter. He intentionally tried to kick/stomp on Amare's achilles going up for a dunk. He intentionally knee'd Nash in the nads.

Feel free to go watch the video evidence that's out there. The dude was trash.

I called out DM yesterday when he tried to compare KG to Duncan. I'm not blinded by hatred of the Spurs. If I was then I would have let DM keep trolling.

But Bowen was a dirty a$$ player who looks like a tool everytime he is on ESiPN

Stockton was one of the dirtiest players ever. Ok.. he played hard. But him and his team were coached to foul every possession knowing the refs wouldnt call it all.

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Im sorry but no "huge" rockets fan can EVER root for the spurs

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How is that true? I am a huge Spurs fans, and in fact hated the Mavs ever since the 2006 series with the Spurs, but I rooted hard for them in the finals last year.

Head Ninja, I too would love to know who you would put above Bruce Bowen for defensive player of the decade.

It's Duncan if anyone, I would think. Ben Wallace got a lot of blocks and was awarded with DPOYs, but Duncan was a more complete defensive player.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 2/22/2012 3:02p).]

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Doesn't mean he didn't intentionally try to hurt players - which he did. He did the ankle thing to Vince Carter. He intentionally tried to kick/stomp on Amare's achilles going up for a dunk. He intentionally knee'd Nash in the nads.

Feel free to go watch the video evidence that's out there. The dude was trash.

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You're either a dumbass or a mind reader, and you ain't a mind reader.

About what I expected when presented with reality. I take it you didn't watch any of the videos?

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I take it you didn't watch any of the videos?

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Do you ever get used to being wrong every single time you post? Do you ever bother to actually read what other people have said? How did you miss it when I already stated that i had seen all of those videos? Did you just not bother to read Ulrich's excellent analysis?

[This message has been edited by Whistling For Flies (edited 2/22/2012 3:22p).]

Kevin Garnett (THE best defender of the decade)
Tim Duncan (don't know how you could think Bowen was a better defender than Duncan - he defined defensive anchor - should've won at least one DPOY)
Shane Battier (if he played on those Spurs teams in place of Bowen, he would have at least one DPOY award - BELIEVE THAT)
Ben Wallace (trailed off in the last few years of the decade, but yeah, a monster in the middle - better than Bowen)

All of these players were clearly better in my opinion.

The same tier as Bowen:

Kobe Bryant (defensive work from 2001-2006 might be enough to bump him up to the above tier)
Ron Artest (two elite defensive seasons)
Jason Kidd (elite perimeter and help defender in the first half of the decade)
Shawn Marion (could be higher, he and Artest were the most versatile defenders of the decade)
Tayshaun Prince
Dwight Howard (came on a little too late)


The first tier can be defined as capable of winning DPOY any year during that decade. They were all elite on-the-ball/man defenders as well as help defenders.

The second tier can be defined as capable of being a top-five defender year in and year out during the decade. Capable of making 1st or 2nd Team All-Defense. Some were consistent every year (Marion) while others had one or two elite years (Artest). Bowen is at or near the top of this tier.

I would post stats, but I'm in the office and I've wasted enough time on Texags today. But to say Bowen was the best defender of the decade? Come on, now. He wasn't the best on his own team (granted he played with ****in' Tim Duncan), but you get the point. There are other players CLEARLY better as defenders during the last decade. Bowen was great, but best? No. Hell to the no, actually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3DZNIpujeo&feature=related

These clips of Kobe Bryant appear far more intentional than any of the Bowen clips.

Mind you, I don't think Kobe is dirty, either. Does he hug the line? Sure, every competitive player should.

Dude Shane Battier in the elite Tier? Seriously?

Just because it's still fresh on my mind the next tier would consist of these guys. Either too few years of quality defense or just haven't taken steps to be elite.

Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Dwyane Wade
Emeka Okafor
Tyson Chandler
Tony Allen
LeBron James
Eric Snow
Marcus Camby
Theo Ratliff
Mutombo (best years were pre-2002)
Kirk Heinrich
Anderson Varajao
Andrew Bogut
Raja Bell
Chauncey Billups
Gerald Wallace
Chuck Hayes
Kendrick Perkins
Andrei Kirilenko

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Dude Shane Battier in the elite Tier? Seriously?

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Easily. Best team defender of the decade. Top five on-ball defender. He was Bowen, but quicker and slightly longer.

For perimeter players, I would take Bowen over Battier, but I saw a lot more of Bowen's work, especially against the elite scorers in the playoffs. Could easily put Bowen/Battier at 4th/5th in the NBA for the decade though.

Garnett was not a better defender than Duncan.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 2/22/2012 3:38p).]

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Do you ever get used to being wrong every single time you post? Do you ever bother to actually read what other people have said? How did you miss it when I already stated that i had seen all of those videos? Did you just not bother to read Ulrich's excellent analysis?

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You're a sensitive little fella.

I honestly haven't seen anywhere in this thread where you specifically addressed the video evidence of Bowen being trashy. There's really no way to defend it, he's intentionally trying to injure the people that I mentioned.

If it caters to your sensitive little feelings, the video of Kobe shows him being trashy too. Just like Bowen.

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Garnett was not a better defender than Duncan.

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He was. He was quicker and more agile. Capable of guarding four positions.

Battier aside, still struggling to see how those touting Bowen can think he was better than Duncan.

Lots of players have been touted as quicker and more agile than Duncan, but on the court... Garnett's best season for blocks per game would have been just good enough to tie Duncan's 9th best, and he didn't control the entire end of the court like Duncan did. Garnett did average around .5-.6 more steals per game through the 00s though.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 2/22/2012 3:46p).]

I can see your case for Duncan, Garnett and Wallace. But Bowen guarded 4 positions and guarded them well. He could shut down anyone on a given night (and he did so without barely missing any games). Was a lot of this attributed to Tim, sure? But he was on a different level then any other perimeter defenders that you mentioned. Unfortunately his work didn't show up in the statline. So he never won DPOY.

Bowen dwarfs any of the other perimter defenders not named Kobe Bryant (a joke) with all defense team selections. You're saying that Battier would have won DPOY IF he was on the Spurs but he wasn't. Bowen was. So hypotheticals hold no weight.

Battier was not quicker than Bowen. Bowen would shut down Chris Paul.

Duncan is a better shot blocker and rebounder than KG. KG is a much better hedge defender and more versitle like you said.

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Best team defender of the decade.

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Please objectify this other than, I saw him defend when he played with the Houston Rockets.

In a completely unrelated topic, I would love to see Duncan or KG try to guard Dream.

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Battier was not quicker than Bowen. Bowen would shut down Chris Paul.

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Ok, but Battier would shut down Kobe.

Battier > Bowen

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Bowen would shut down Chris Paul.

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He probably would playing some of that patented Bowen tight defense.

No one can shut down Kobe.

I really wish the Rockets would get another good player so they could stop trying to drag Olajuwon into every conversation. Used to like the guy, now I'm sick of him.

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Bowen dwarfs any of the other perimter defenders not named Kobe Bryant (a joke) with all defense team selections. You're saying that Battier would have won DPOY IF he was on the Spurs but he wasn't. Bowen was. So hypotheticals hold no weight.

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Agreed. It wasn't said to boost Battier up based on what he may have done in that position, but rather what he did with what he had. Battier played his best defensive years in Memphis and Houston without an real post anchor behind him. He had Gasol in Memphis. Comedy. He had Yao in Houston. Yao was able to change shots with his height, but it didn't stop people from wanting to attack the rim with regularity because Yao was basically a walking posterization target.

I'm sure you've heard this knock a million times on this board, but it doesn't meant that it isn't true: Bowen's defense was aided immensely with the Tim Duncan behind him. It can't be overstated.

Battier had Pau and Yao and was still able to stand out defensively.

I agree that the All-Defense team is a joke.

Pau isn't exactly a defensive slouch though. But Bowen doesn't get his defensive accolades without Duncan, I agree. But both of them were up there in the DPOY votings a couple of times, ironically, taking votes away from each other.

Waaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! Bruce pushed Chris back down to the ground rather than let him stand up between his legs. WAAAAAHHHHH!!!! He was obviously trying to ruin his career!

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No one can shut down Kobe.

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Kobe has said that Battier was his toughest defender.

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I really wish the Rockets would get another good player so they could stop trying to drag Olajuwon into every conversation. Used to like the guy, now I'm sick of him.

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Yeah, I'd be sick of him too if I were a fan of David Robinson and the Spurs