Ulrich, they could have gotten the same package after the season and had a better shot at a championship this year.

Interesting look at how this deal went down

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--inside-look-at-james-harden-s-trade-to-rockets-28301609.html

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Before sitting down a final time with Pelinka, Presti became more serious in his discussions with Morey. Houston wanted Harden badly, believed he would evolve into a transcendent franchise star for a championship-caliber team and planned to award him a five-year maximum contract worth nearly $80 million. So, Presti laid out what he wanted for Harden and the original price was steep: Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.
Across 72 hours and culminating on Friday night, the deal became this: Martin, Lamb and two first-round picks, including a guaranteed plumb lottery pick via Toronto. Before Presti sat down with Pelinka on Saturday morning to make his final offer of $54 million over four years, the Rockets were made to understand: If Harden turns it down, your long-awaited star is on his way to Texas.

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Harden sucked in the finals.

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Harden has rated as the most efficient offensive played in the league the last couple years. He is a moneyball wet dream.

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By what metric?

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points per possession. It makes sense, most of his shots are high percentage threes or free throws from driving the lane.

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He's 23 years old and on the cusp of superstardom. Please

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I love the addition of Harden, but I hate the idea of giving him a max contract. How many other players have received max contracts based on "he will probably be awesome as a starter". To be fair, most players get a max contract after they have played their best basketball, so giving one out based on potential instead of past results may actually work.

I just see this as a Rashard Lewis, Rudy Gay, or best case Joe Johnson type deal. Sure they are nice players to have, but once you are "one piece away" their max contracts prevent you from picking up that piece.

^ The Rockets still have enough space for a max deal this upcoming offseason.

Whats your point? In two years it is still to take up the same amount of space on the payroll.

I understand the fact this doesn't hinder us from making the next deal, but at some point you have to consider whether Harden is worth that amount of payroll space.

I like the deal better for the Thunder big picture wise. Harden will make the rockets better but I still don't see them making the playoffs. So the Thunder get a promising piece in Jeremy Lamb and what could turn out to be two lottery picks. The Thunder will be a good team for a very long time and won't even have to delve into luxury tax territory.

With that being said, as a Spurs fan, I'm psyched to see them lose Harden.

I do not understand any Rockets fans who do not like this trade. We've been crucifying Morey for years now for being unable to land a superstar. Now we get one and the same people are complaining that the star we acquired isn't good enough and we're throwing money away. Some people just can't be happy I guess

People just dont understand that he is so much more than durant and westbrooks wing man. He is already a great sg and can become elite.

This isn't terrible for OKC. Martin is a great scorer and little else. But with Westbrook, Durant, Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins, you don't need him to be a great defender. If he can come out, draw a few fouls and get some easy buckets, that is great.

Lamb is a lottery pick, solid defender and solid three point shooter. And he just turned 20.

OKC also got the guaranteed lottery pick from the Kyle Lowery trade with Toronto.

So lottery pick+lottery pick+1st rounder+Kevin Martin = pretty good deal to save off on luxury tax while remaining a contender.

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what could turn out to be two lottery picks.

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The 2nd pick is the Mavs', and it's top 20 protected.

The Thunder are the Supersonics 2.0

They will be very good for a while, but they never win a championship.

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This isn't terrible for OKC. Martin is a great scorer and little else. But with Westbrook, Durant, Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins, you don't need him to be a great defender. If he can come out, draw a few fouls and get some easy buckets, that is great.

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My problem with Martin offensively is that he kills ball movement. The Thunder already have 2 guys who do that already. Martin doesn't rebound, doesn't defend, doesn't create for others, and doesn't stay healthy.

Also, who handles the ball when Westbrook is being dumb with the ball?

Martins passing looked great in preseason. Ive never viewed him as a ball stopper.. we just rarely had better options.

Drafted Harden in my Fantasy Basketball league. One more reason to follow the Rox.

Will be interesting to see how Lin and Harden coexist. From the short time I've seen both of them it seems they are the most effective when they are dominating the ball.

Marketing wise it's a win for Houston. They've cornered the Chinese and beard market in one off season. That's a huge accomplishment.

Harden exists just fine off of the ball. He is a dangerous cutter and hits a high percentage of open 3s

Re: harden dominating the ball, he plays plenty effective off of it. Proof is out there in his overall offensive efficiency mentioned above.

Aside from that, he's automatically the best player on the rockets at the moment. Who cares if he dominates the ball? It isn't like he's being brought in to be the 3rd cog on the team and there's a big threat of chemistry disruption. It isn't like the team is going to be much of a lesser unit since Harden will be taking touches away from Asik and Parsons.

Just circling back on what he Rox gave up:

Kyle Lowry (Was used to get the Tor pick) + Jordan Hill (Was used to get the Dallas Pick) + Kevin Martin + Sam Dalembert (Was used to jump from #14 to #12 for Lamb) + lotto pick (Good 'ol #14, before the trade) + Charlotte 2nd for Harden + the others.


That seems like a lot.

Here's another interesting breakdown taking it back even further, and proving out how Morey's plan of winning each small trade eventually gets you where you want to go:

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So, I decided to look at how exactly the Harden package came together during Morey's tenure. The story started 5 years ago, actually, and has 5 separate parts.

Bottom Line: The cost of the Harden package is basically Rafer Alston, the 56th pick of the 2008 draft, paying Jared Jeffries for a year, Sam Dalembert, Trevor Ariza and the 14th pick of the 2012 draft.

Kind of shows the value of an accumulation of "small/medium smart moves." Took a while for it to pay off, but then again, the "tank and draft" route also involves risks and can take a long time for you to finally land the right pick and get the right player.


Here's the Story


Part 1- KMart

July 28, 2007: Rockets traded a 2008 2nd Rd pick (ended up being 56th overall and used to select Sasha Kaun) and cash for the 31st Pick of the 2007 Draft, Carl Landry.

February 18, 2010: Rockets completed a 3-team trade, a part of which involves sending Carl Landry to Sacramento for Kevin Martin

October 27, 2012: Rockets traded Kevin Martin to OKC as a part of the Harden trade.

Part 2- Lamb

December 24, 2011: Rockets sign Samuel Dalembert as a Free Agent

June 27, 2012: Rockets trade Samuel Dalembert plus the 14th pick of the 2012 draft for the 12th pick of the 2012 draft

June 28, 2012: Rockets draft Jeremy Lamb 12th overall.

October 27, 2012: Rockets trade Jeremy Lamb as a part of the Harden trade.


Part 3- The Toronto Pick

February 21, 2008: Rockets made a 3-team trade involving sending Rafer Alston to Orlando and receiving Kyle Lowry from Memphis

July 11, 2012: Rockes traded Kyle Lowry to Toronto for a 1st round pick with "two way protection."

October 27, 2012: Rockets traded the Toronto 1st round pick as a part of the Harden Trade


Part 4- The Dallas Pick

February 18, 2010: Rockets completed a 3 team trade, a part of which involving taking on Jared Jeffries' salary in order to receive Jordan Hill and a 2012 Knicks Pick (turned out to be 16th overall, Royce White).

March 15, 2012: Rockets traded Jordan Hill to Lakers for the Dallas 1st round pick and Derek Fisher

October 27, 2012: Rockets traded Dallas 1st Rd pick as a part of the Harden trade.


Part 5- Charlotte 2nd Rounder

July 8, 2009: Rockets signed Trevor Ariza as Free Agent

August 4, 2012: As a part of a 4 team trade, Rockets traded Ariza to New Orleans and received Courtney Lee in return

July 20, 2012: Rockets traded Courtney Lee to Boston for the Charlotte Bobcats' 2nd Rd pick in the 2013 draft.

October 27, 2012: Rockets trade the Charlotte pick as a part of the Harden package.

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As the resident Thunder fan I guess I should finally chime in. From the OKC side of things, I'm not surprised that Spurs fan Guitarsoup gets it. This was going to go two ways for OKC, the short term way (break the bank and risk the future for a run this year with Harden under his last year) or the long term (deal him, protect your cash, stockpile liquid assets, and oh yeah...you're still really f'ing great).

Presti cut his teeth with the Spurs, the dude knows how to work a small market team and knows that the quickest way to death is to over extend yourself.

The Thunder absolutely made the right decision in choosing Ibaka over Harden. Harden is a great player, but he's closer to his ceiling as a player. Ibaka came in to the league incredibly raw and has way more room to grow as a player than Harden, and his preseason showed it. He's got an expanded offensive repertoire, plays a premium position, and oh yeah, the defense.

There were some of my friends up here freaking the hell out when news of this broke, but the team still has it's Batman & Robin, Eric Maynor is back to provide some bench scoring (and handle the ball when Russ goes full retard), so I'm not too worried. Chemistry might suffer a bit early, but these guys are not kids, they're seasoned veterans by now and can handle it.

Oh and let's talk about the return. Martin I'm not too excited about, but I know he can light it up when needed. I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt by the deadline thought. Lamb, along with Perry Jones, are two guys who if they came out a year earlier were top 10 picks. I have absolutely no idea how either will pan out, but being in this organization will get more out of them than they ever realized in college (especially Jones being "coached" by Scott Drew)

Both teams made the best deal possible for each team. If anyone is trying to prove that one team got worked over then you have an agenda you are going to fail trying to prove. The Rockets got a great player in Harden who we will get to see flourish as a starter. Okc got Lamb and some decent draft picks which is pretty good considering if they had waited they might have gotten a much worse deal or nothing at all. I think Martin will be traded away to a team looking to unload salary at the end of the year. Okc may not be as good in the short term but they have given themselves the best possible chance of sustaining long term success given their situation.

I would rather overpay a little for Harden and have a team worth watching than continue to middle in the West and be a 40 win team every year with a bunch of players that won't be with the team in 2-3 years.

At least we have a core of guys in Asik, Lin, and Harden that we can build around and be excited about for the future.

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I think Martin will be traded away to a team looking to unload salary at the end of the year.

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I don't think this will happen, barring an injury of some type.


I think Martin will be a significant contributor to a team fighting for a very high seed in the West.

I don't think OKC is trading Martin unless they get someone good back. Like really good. I think the whole point of the trade was OKC didn't want another long term big money contract on the books. My guess is they would be happy to move Perkins+Martin for a Al Jefferson or something, not that Utah would do it since Perkins isn't white.

This is really a bigger scale version of what the Spurs did with George Hill. Hill was a proven player that deserved a big contract. Spurs knew he was worth it, but didn't want to pay it and go into luxury tax, so they traded him for Leonard. Hill is perfect for Indy and Leonard brings to the Spurs what they needed. Now Spurs have a hole at backup PG, but they have a starting SF. Worked well for everyone and the Spurs saved a ton of money. Pretty much the same deal, only everyone is better.

Good points on Martin. I'm sure it's guys saying the right things, but Durant seems to have a lot of confidence already in Martin being able to score points in bunches.

Also a note, Brooks coached Martin while he was an assistant in Sacramento, so he's familiar with his game.

Lots of tl;dr goin on in this thread

Okc would have given Harden a max contract if they had the space.

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HotardAg07,
Harden exists just fine off of the ball. He is a dangerous cutter and hits a high percentage of open 3s

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ATM9000,
Re: harden dominating the ball, he plays plenty effective off of it. Proof is out there in his overall offensive efficiency mentioned above.

Aside from that, he's automatically the best player on the rockets at the moment. Who cares if he dominates the ball?

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That's not my point.

Hardin is at his best with the ball in his hand iso'd breaking down the defense creating for himself or his team. Yeah he can shoot and cut but that's not the best part of his game.

Same goes for Lin.

The trick is balancing the two.

How many star back court players can you say are better without the ball? Would they be stars if they weren't better with the ball?

Reggie Miller

Ray Allen

Fair point, but there are many many others who that doesn't apply to. Besides, Lin is not nearly as ball centric as Westbrook or Durant, and Lin probably needs the ball taken out of his hands at times anyways. Harden is going to fit in perfectly.