If you honestly think tony parker is a better point guard than Chris Paul, Derrick rose, or Rajon Rondo then you're smokin some pretty strong stuff.

And to mention him in the same breath as magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas is just absurd.

Again with the damn rings. Is he better than John Stockton because he won 3 rings? Is his career better than Steve Nash's? When you guys make your list of Top 10 all-time greats, are Robert Horry and Dennis Rodman on it because they won a bunch of rings?

When he's not hurt, Yes he is better than them. Many non spurs fans/pundits agree.

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Is his career better than Steve Nash's?

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Which career would you rather have?

2 NBA MVPs (which were at the time and still are contested/thought of as bogus/because of a gimmick system)
0 Championships
5 First round exits
5 missed playoffs
8 All-Star teams in 17 seasons

0 MVPs
1 Finals MVP
3 Championships as a starter in 4 Finals appearances
Never missed playoffs
Two first round exits
5 All-Star games in 12 seasons

First resume is better. All the Finals stuff is more indicative of having played with better players throughout your career.

what FPS Doug said

Hard to disagree with that.

Nash was a better shooter but such a terrible defender. Parker was a better defender/scorer. Hard to think Nash would have peaked over a 15-17p 7-8a career without the DAntoni gimmick offense.

"MVP" that rode the bench twice during crunch time in the finals.

Very good player on some very good teams. Not an all-time great like Duncan.

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"MVP" that rode the bench twice during crunch time in the finals.

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With a pulled hamstring. Parker was playing brilliantly in the first three series before he pulled that. He could not move laterally or cut, which is like 90% of his game.

But why sit then and play most of the rest of each game? i understand injuries, but the timing was baffling.

[This message has been edited by aston04 (edited 6/21/2013 10:31a).]

How deep do you think the team was? Are you going to start Cory Joseph or Gary Neal and have them dribble into the Heat double teams and traps?

Had Nash stayed in Dallas longer I'd agree that Parker > Nash. But he stepped his game up when he went back to the Suns (even if it was a "gimmicky" offense).

Looking at what a PG should be, not many rank higher than Nash. TP is good, but here's my list of a few who no doubt rank higher than him:

Magic
Isaiah
Kidd
Nash
Paul (when all's said and done)

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Hard to think Nash would have peaked over a 15-17p 7-8a career without the DAntoni gimmick offense.

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Hard to think Parker would have won 3 titles without the Popovich/Duncan system. And Parker has won no more than Nash has since he became the franchise player 3-4 years ago, and he's still with Popovich.

Parker gets all the credit when he has a great game and none of the blame when he fails. That's the classic sign of a system player.

Oh nevermind. Stephen A Smith just said Parker is a guy who you can't trust to make good decisions in the clutch so Popovich was correct to bench him. Argument over

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But why sit then and play most of the rest of each game? i understand injuries, but the timing was baffling.

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Trying to picture the meltdown if an injured Dirk, Jet or even Kidd was benched at the end of a game 7. Too much.

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which were at the time and still are contested/thought of as bogus/because of a gimmick system

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Funny, that's what I think of when I think about the Spurs' first title!

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Parker gets all the credit when he has a great game and none of the blame when he fails. That's the classic sign of a system player.

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that's an interesting view. i've never thought of it that way

Except Parker has gotten a lot of criticism for playing bad in the series.

He isn't getting the criticism that Manu is, basically because everyone wants Manu to retire and not drag it out and eventually get traded to the Raptors and look like half a shell of his former self. Also, 8 turnovers.

You can gut out an injury to some extent, but this notion that he could have and should have looked the exact same is mindblowingly stupid. It's especially dumb for Parker since he's a slashing PG whose #1 weapon is his ability to explode to the hoop. He couldn't get around anyone last night, which turned him into a perimeter shooter with an uncomfortable, off-balanced jumper.

Duncan could probably play through that injury since his game is predicated on position and footwork, but Parker's game requires his speed. That's doubly true in SA's system, which has his speed as its focal point and assumes he'll be hauling ass with the shots and passes it generates for him.

Exactly, Travis, Jr.

Watch the replay of Parker's game winning shot from game 1. He was all over the place and dribbled around all three of the big three before nailing the game winner. He dribble around even remotely close to that in any other game.

Yea. In a way it's sadly fitting that the champ from the injury-ravaged West was (likely) doomed by an injury to their best player.

It's sad that the last image of Parker is him sulking on the bench. Finals history is filled with franchise players who fought through injury to have great transcendent moments even in defeat. Told the team to "get on my back and lets finish this ****ing thing". Left it all on the court even in defeat. Think Isiah dragging his sprained ankle through game 6. Parker missed an opportunity.

Your trolling is weak. D-

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Finals history is filled with franchise players who fought through injury to have great transcendent moments even in defeat.

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Kinda like his Game 6 pull up 3 with Lebron in his face and his haul ass drive to the hoop to tie the game on the very next possession? He had has "I'm winning this ****ing game" moment in game 6, but the rest of the team choked away a situation that 98% of other teams in the same situation have won.

He had nothing left in game 7. He was practically jogging out there. He couldn't get past anybody that was guarding him and he was getting about 6-12" less vertical on his jumpers.

[This message has been edited by Deputy Travis Junior (edited 6/21/2013 3:28p).]

You don't get to say Parker is the best PG in the league and then say oh well he couldn't move laterally at full speed so we had to bench him. It doesn't add up and is an insult to the franchise PGs who actually have to lead their teams.

IF, you're showing your ass. Being the best PG at full health doesn't mean he can play at 50% and still be the best PG. When his speed and acceleration drop from NBA elite to below average (for a PG) overnight, that's a big, big problem (it wasn't just that he "couldn't move laterally at full speed"). That's especially true for Parker because, as I stated before, his game and the Spurs' offensive system are built around his athletic ability.

[This message has been edited by Deputy Travis Junior (edited 6/21/2013 3:32p).]

I don't need him to be the best PG at 50% but it's fair to expect him to avoid beig benched in the last possession of a finals game 7

He was a liability on both ends of the court. He couldn't drive for **** and his jumper was way off because he couldn't jump for **** either. He knew it, Pop knew it, and everybody on the Heat knew it. It sucks and it was humiliating for him, but Pop thought it was the right call.

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That's especially true for Parker because, as I stated before, his game and the Spurs' offensive system are built around his athletic ability.

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This may go back to the larger issue of why the franchise PGs don't win titles compared to the franchise Posts. Due to the PGs being smaller and more speed reliant, thus more susceptible to injuries wearing them down compared to larger players who aren't as completely taken out of their gameflow by injuries.

[This message has been edited by Internetfan02 (edited 6/21/2013 3:39p).]

Possibly, but it came down to the bitter end. He literally needed 5-6 more healthy days after a 6+ month season.

Off the top if my head I can only think of Mark Aguirre benching himself due to injury for a few minutes in the 4th quarter of western finals game 7. That was a big deal at the time.

It's not an exaggeration to say that the players trust Pop unconditionally. To an extent that really has no equal in NBA history. Going off of that, Pop has benched Duncan at weird times (and not just the end of game 6). A zillion people had watched Parker look slow as molasses uphill and completely suck for 2 straight games. No way Pop didn't see it either. It's not out of the question to think that he made the call.

Also, even if he had been in, it would have been for appearances and nothing else. He started out slow and got slower over the course of the game. I guess that's one of the things that make the Spurs so unique. They really do put the team first so if Pop said "Parker, you're sucking. I'm benching you for this huge play" he would rather sit on the bench and take it + the resulting humiliation than go out and jeopardize what Pop thought was the team's best chance at a W.

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