Give me your list. Lets assume Duncan is a power forward for this.

I'd go:
1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Dirk
4. Karl Malone
5. Barkley

Please change thread title to Greatest Power Forwards since Ronald Reagen was re-elected president.

Oh sorry I forgot Bob Pettit...wait. no i didn't


Tell me again who you think should be ahead of anyone that I put up there?

Petit and Elvin Hayes for two.


But they didn't do shoe commercials and have ESPN replaying their highlights over and over.

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Bob Pettit
4. Elvin Hayes
5. Charles Barkley

James Worthy and Kevin McHale are at least in the discussion.

Earl Boykins

Thought Worthy was a small forward?


To me, including Pettit is like putting Mikan in a list of greatest centers. The dude came into the league the same year as the shot clock and with half the league being white (if not more). We're kidding ourselves if we think he faced nearly the same level of competition as the five players i mentioned.

I think Mchale and Hayes deserve consideration. I would just think the five i mentioned are greater players

Ergo, you are basically saying the greatest of the modern era, not of all time, which is what my first post said.

For me, if you want to do all time, you have to go with how did the player dominate the players of their era under the rules and training of their time.

I know I'm in the minority with that belief, which is why I don't go with such beliefs that a QB list of the top 5 of all time has Brees, Brady, Manning, Elway, and Montana, like some believe.

You take a guy in his era and how much above the level of competition he was. That's how you compare guys from different eras.

If you're going on what Bob Pettit would do against Tim Duncan, yes Duncan would probably dominate him.

But by that logic, Paul Konerko is a better baseball player than Babe Ruth because he would have hit 150 home runs in the 1920s.

You guys in favor of ranking the old timers make some fair points, but I stay away from ranking guys that I haven't seen play. Otherwise, you're simply going off statistics (or even worse advanced stats) to make your judgements. There is a visual element of greatness that the casual fan recognizes and the aficionado savors. Unless you've actually seen the guy play, you're not truly qualified to assess his greatness.

Duncan Is 1

Dirk , Malone and kg fight for two


Barkley petit prolly three

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Duncan Is 1

Dirk , Malone and kg fight for two


Barkley petit prolly three

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Wait so two different players fight for number 2...but a completely different player is 3?

malone is the best of all time in my opinion

then duncan and then barkley

garnett is supremely overrated

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garnett is supremely overrated

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I wish I could give this more than one blue star. So true

The fact that a 6'4.5" Barkley is in the discussion is amazing.

I always saw hakeem olajuwon as a power forward (and he was his early years).

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garnett is supremely overrated

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How so? He's one of the five best PF's of all-time and one of the top 35-40 players ever. I think he's rated pretty accurately.

My list would be:

1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Charles Barkley
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitzki

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You guys in favor of ranking the old timers make some fair points, but I stay away from ranking guys that I haven't seen play. Otherwise, you're simply going off statistics (or even worse advanced stats) to make your judgements. There is a visual element of greatness that the casual fan recognizes and the aficionado savors. Unless you've actually seen the guy play, you're not truly qualified to assess his greatness.

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I understand this, which is why I made the Reagen-era comment, but ultimately many of these discussions will end up bringing up stats and rings anyway (see any Kobe/LBJ vs. MJ debate), even though rarely did these players go head to head against each other in their prime.


I also know that the league back in the Malone and Jordan era also had about 50 American guys in it that wouldn't be in the league now because of the influx of foreign born players. On opening day of the 1991–92 season, NBA rosters included 23 international players from 18 countries. At the start of the 2012–13 season, there were 84 players from 37 countries and territories. I don't use that to penalize Jordan in any debate (although it is deserving of a Mack Brown *)

To me, Duncan is the best.

I wan't to make sure I'm understanding your post. You're giving Michael Jordan an asterisk...because there weren't enough foreign players in the NBA?

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Garnett is supremely overrated

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You really sell KG short. If you weigh offense and defense equally, he is easily your #2 all time PF. He could guard all 3 frontcourt positions, rebound, pass and score from anywhere.

Mack Brown asterisks have no meaningful significance.


However, the talent level in the league is higher now than in the early 80s and 90s, just like the 80s and 90s has a higher talent level than in the 40s and 50s.
If you are going to penalize Pettit, Schayes, & Mikan (or Chamberlain & Russell) for not playing against the competition of today, than Jordan needs that same penalty, or will have that same mark on him in 25 years, as well.

However, that is not my stance. You can only base a player on what he did against the competition he faced.

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garnett is supremely overrated

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Agree.

Kevin Garnett is one of the more overrated players of all time.

If you compare players that would be considered superstars he is by far one of the weaker playoff performers.

I hate KG but don't think he's overrated. His all time #'s are pretty damn good. And as much as I hate to admit it, his playoff failures stem from the weak teams he was on. I'd probably put him somewhere around #4 or #5.

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I always saw hakeem olajuwon as a power forward (and he was his early years).

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I knew someone would somehow bring Olajuwon into this discussion.
The list would be Duncan #1 then the rest.

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And as much as I hate to admit it, his playoff failures stem from the weak teams he was on.

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No they don't.

His playoff failures are due to him consistently being outplayed by the opposing teams superstar player.

Kevin Garnett only has three seasons where he was an elite playoff performer (2002-2004).


Even when he was at his very, very best in these seasons....he was still outplayed by Dirk, Shaq and Kobe.

If you look at the rest of his career he's nothing more then pretty good in the playoffs (19 points 11 rebound sort of player)

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garnett is supremely overrated

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When someone says this I know I'm talking to a person who started watching basketball 3 years ago

He's one of the best and most versatile defensive players ever and defense actually matters. Offensively he was a monster on timberwolves. And he had a good team one year in Minnesota. He literally had the worst teammates ever, so you can put that playoff argument right up your ass. We saw what Garnett was capable of when he had good teammates in Boston

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Even when he was at his very, very best in these seasons....he was still outplayed by Dirk, Shaq and Kobe.

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All of whom had much better teammates than Garnett. I mean, kobe and Shaq were on the same team during that time period. Think before you write please

Dirk is the only one who won a championship without another all star.

That's not true. But still the most impressive championship run in the history of anything.

Dirks performance during the 2011 playoffs is as good as any in the history of the game

Dirk

Check Dirk's stats against KG when they played.

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He's one of the best and most versatile defensive players ever and defense actually matters. Offensively he was a monster on timberwolves.

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Myth.
Kevin Garnett has only had 9 games in his entire 18 year career where he has scored over 30 points in a playoff game.

Im not making that up. 9 whole games.

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And he had a good team one year in Minnesota. He literally had the worst teammates ever, so you can put that playoff argument right up your ass.

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This is another myth of Kevin Garnett which blatantly is not true.

While he was in Minnestota Kevin Garnett played with Latrell Sprewell, Sam Cassell, Tom Gugliotta, Chauncey Billups, Tom Gugliotta, Stephon Marbury, Terrel Brandon, and Wally Scerbiak....all star players.

Despite playing with all of these all Star players Kevin Garnett was only able to win a total of two playoff series

People that are fans of Kevin Garnett will come up with all of these excuses to downplay his shortcomings.

One of the biggest myths is that Kevin Garnett never got any help from his teamates.


Its total garbage. Its not true at all.

There are three seasons (1997, 1998, 2000) where Kevin Garnett is not even the leading playoff scorer for Minnesota.




1997

Houston defeats Minnesota 3-0

In this series Kevin Garnett was the 3rd leading scorer for the Timberwolves (and 5th leading scorer in the series) averaging 17.3 ppg and 9 rebounds. He was outscored by Stephon Marbury (21 ppg) and Tom Gugliotta (18 PPG).
The Rockets leading performers were Charles Barkley, Olajuwon, and Mario Elie who all averaged about 18 PPG.

But Kevin Garnett had no help from his teamates...he was doing it all by himself.


1998

Seattle defeats Minnesota 3-2 -

In this series Kevin Garnett averaged 15.8 points, 9.6 rebounds and 4 assists to be the 2nd leading scorer on the T-Wolves. There is a significant drop in scoring from KG’s regular season scoring averaging of 18 PPG.

Anthony Peeler was their leading scorer at 16.2 PPG, 7.6 rebounds and 3.6 assists.

Again….this kinda contradicts the myth that Kevin Garnett never had any help while in Minnesota.

Kevin Garnett is outplayed by Seattle Superstar Gary Payton who averages 26 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists. KG is matched in production by Seattle players Detlef Schrempf and Hersey Hawkins.


1999
San Antonio defeats Minnesota 3 -1

KG has his first above average series averaging 21.8 points 12.8 rebounds. Terrell Brandon chips in 19.5 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists.


Again….I have a very hard time believing that “KG never had any help” in Minnesota.


2000

Portland defeats Minnesota 3 games to 1.

In this series Kevin Garnett averages 18.8 PPG, 10.8 rebounds and 8.8 assists….
The only negative is that his PPG decreases from 22.9 PPG during the regular season to only 18.8 PPG in the series against the Trailblazers.

He is joined by All Star guard Terrell Brandon who is the leading scorer for the Timberwolves at 19.5 PPG, 8.5 assists, and 5.8 rebounds.

Again…I fail to see how Kevin Garnett did not have any help


2001

San Antonio defeats Minnesota 3-1

Kevin Garnett has another good (but not great) series averaging 21 PPG, 12 rebounds and 4 assists. Again…there is a decrease in scoring from the regular season where he averages 22 PPG.
Terrell Brandon chips in 15 PPG, 6 assists and 4 rebounds
Wally Szerbiack chips in 14 PPG, 4 assists and 2.5 assists. - See more at:



2002

Dallas defeats Minnesota 3-0
Kevin Garnett has his first monster playoff series average 24 ppg 18.7 rebounds and 5 assists.

He is joined by future NBA Finals MVP Chauncey Billups who puts in 22ppg, 5 rebounds and 5 assists

And Wally Szerbiack who 20 points, 7 rebounds and 2 assists.

But, But, But KG had no help in Minnesota. He didnt have any good teammates until Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell.

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We saw what Garnett was capable of when he had good teammates in Boston

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No. What we saw was what Kevin Garnett was capable of while playing with three other Hall of Fame players......one title.


A title where he did not win NBA Finals MVP.

KG was a part of the initial Super team of this era (Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen)


Not very often someone gets to team up with three other Hall of Fame Players.

Lebron James, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird all won multiple titles playing on their respective super team.

[This message has been edited by Kellso (edited 11/25/2013 10:27a).]