500,000ags said:

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Isn't the fact that LAC is pushing back on the deal for Wes proof enough they don't think these options are worth it?

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No, because DJ himself hasn't opted in. If anything it speaks more to the fact that DJ and the Mavs haven't agreed on a deal that DJ likes enough to opt out of LA. (Ie - he thinks he's worth more than whatever the Mavs are offering). The clippers have no leverage here.

Did we already forget DJ's antics last time we tried this?

**** that guy

mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

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I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

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Thanks for that subtle shot.

Beyond that, my point about Wes being another trade piece for the Clippers is that they can essentially do another ladder swap for a cheaper expiring contract and shed even more salary (whether he's a better player than Mathews or not is somewhat tertiary as moving salary is the prime benefit for a young team looking for FA additions). And again, Wes isn't some junk player. He's a quality nba player than can be a really good bench player or an average starter.

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Shedding salary of an expiring contract doesn't do any good after free agency is over. No kidding and I don't believe it would take long to flip Wes to create more space before FA ends. Shedding contracts is about cap space, which is basically pointless in the middle of the season. So even if clippers could trade Wes for a cheaper contract, which I'm doubtful they could, what's the point? Matter of opinion. I think they could easily trade wes for a better contract or better asset. It's precisely what the Mavs are trying to do now vs trading him a few weeks ago to move up 2 spots in the draft. The clippers goal here isn't to just save a little cash. It's all about cap space and flexibility. Those obviously go hand in hand. And reading Wes for a cheaper contract after free agency I'm saying he's an asset during FA does nothing for cap space. Having Deandre opt out is the clear best option for Clippers and that's why they are playing hardball. If he opts in, then in my opinion they should just trade him at the trade deadline instead of clearing 6 million in cap space by taking on Wes. Why would they carry his contract on their roster and create a situation where either he or Gortat are now a bench player? You wanna talk about lockerroom issues, keep DJ around and see how that works out. They'd be better of cutting him. I don't believe the Clippers will allow DJ to remain on the roster come the 2018 season tip.

You are overrating Wes as a player and as an asset. Matter of opinion. I think youre underrating him and overrating the Clippers leverage.

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This whole 'would they' or 'won't they' discussion is dumb. If LA doesn't want what the Mavs are offering then they are obviously free to shop around for a better deal. (Good luck finding another suitor willing to offer anything more enticing and who also has Cap room to acquire him) The Mavs have already made it clear they value Wes and his expiring deal greatly. There are other FA options they could sign for nothing (Favors, Nurkic, Boogie, Capela, Len, Randle, A. Gordon, etc.) DJ isn't the missing piece to a contending team, so there's really no pressure on Dallas. LA will obviously be feeling some pressure from a disgruntled player that wants out, so it's on them to make it happen one way or deal with the consequences of standing pat.

I hope Cuban just wastes the **** out of DJ's reps' time and effort.

M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

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I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

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Thanks for that subtle shot.

Beyond that, my point about Wes being another trade piece for the Clippers is that they can essentially do another ladder swap for a cheaper expiring contract and shed even more salary (whether he's a better player than Mathews or not is somewhat tertiary as moving salary is the prime benefit for a young team looking for FA additions). And again, Wes isn't some junk player. He's a quality nba player than can be a really good bench player or an average starter.

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Shedding salary of an expiring contract doesn't do any good after free agency is over. No kidding and I don't believe it would take long to flip Wes to create more space before FA ends. Shedding contracts is about cap space, which is basically pointless in the middle of the season. So even if clippers could trade Wes for a cheaper contract, which I'm doubtful they could, what's the point? Matter of opinion. I think they could easily trade wes for a better contract or better asset. It's precisely what the Mavs are trying to do now vs trading him a few weeks ago to move up 2 spots in the draft. The clippers goal here isn't to just save a little cash. It's all about cap space and flexibility. Those obviously go hand in hand. And reading Wes for a cheaper contract after free agency I'm saying he's an asset during FA does nothing for cap space. Having Deandre opt out is the clear best option for Clippers and that's why they are playing hardball. If he opts in, then in my opinion they should just trade him at the trade deadline instead of clearing 6 million in cap space by taking on Wes. Why would they carry his contract on their roster and create a situation where either he or Gortat are now a bench player? You wanna talk about lockerroom issues, keep DJ around and see how that works out. They'd be better of cutting him. I don't believe the Clippers will allow DJ to remain on the roster come the 2018 season tip.

You are overrating Wes as a player and as an asset. Matter of opinion. I think youre underrating him and overrating the Clippers leverage.

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If you think anyone is giving up an asset for one year of Wes at $18 million then we are just going to have to agree to disagree. What gm in their right mind would trade any sort of asset for Wes? I honestly don't understand what sort of asset you think they could possibly immediately flip him for.

Again, I'm not saying the clippers won't take him in order to get $7 million in cap. I'm saying they won't be able to immediately flip him for anything resembling an asset. They awoukd be taking him because they have to, not because they want to.

mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

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I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

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Thanks for that subtle shot.

Beyond that, my point about Wes being another trade piece for the Clippers is that they can essentially do another ladder swap for a cheaper expiring contract and shed even more salary (whether he's a better player than Mathews or not is somewhat tertiary as moving salary is the prime benefit for a young team looking for FA additions). And again, Wes isn't some junk player. He's a quality nba player than can be a really good bench player or an average starter.

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Shedding salary of an expiring contract doesn't do any good after free agency is over. No kidding and I don't believe it would take long to flip Wes to create more space before FA ends. Shedding contracts is about cap space, which is basically pointless in the middle of the season. So even if clippers could trade Wes for a cheaper contract, which I'm doubtful they could, what's the point? Matter of opinion. I think they could easily trade wes for a better contract or better asset. It's precisely what the Mavs are trying to do now vs trading him a few weeks ago to move up 2 spots in the draft. The clippers goal here isn't to just save a little cash. It's all about cap space and flexibility. Those obviously go hand in hand. And reading Wes for a cheaper contract after free agency I'm saying he's an asset during FA does nothing for cap space. Having Deandre opt out is the clear best option for Clippers and that's why they are playing hardball. If he opts in, then in my opinion they should just trade him at the trade deadline instead of clearing 6 million in cap space by taking on Wes. Why would they carry his contract on their roster and create a situation where either he or Gortat are now a bench player? You wanna talk about lockerroom issues, keep DJ around and see how that works out. They'd be better of cutting him. I don't believe the Clippers will allow DJ to remain on the roster come the 2018 season tip.

You are overrating Wes as a player and as an asset. Matter of opinion. I think youre underrating him and overrating the Clippers leverage.

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If you think anyone is giving up an asset for one year of Wes at $18 million then we are just going to have to agree to disagree. What gm in their right mind would trade any sort of asset for Wes? I honestly don't understand what sort of asset you think they could possibly immediately flip him for.

Again, I'm not saying the clippers won't take him in order to get $7 million in cap. I'm saying they won't be able to immediately flip him for anything resembling an asset. They awoukd be taking him because they have to, not because they want to.

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It was simply another option for the Clippers in why they would take him. I've stated over and over that the primary impetus for the trade is for LA to move a disgruntled player AND save a bit of money in the process. Worst case scenario is that they are unable to move Wes and are left with a quality player and superb glue guy. THATS IT.

Again, DJ opting out would make all of that moot.
Receiving a better offer would make all of that moot.

Should he opt in and the Mavs are the only ones interested, LA is pretty much left with no choice. This isn't hard and wasn't meant to be a 2 page debate.

I agree with all that. Just took issue with considering Wes any sort of asset and pointed out why clippers are smart to play hard ball and hope that Deandre just opts out. That's all. And I was bored.

End of derail.

mavsfan4ever said:

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I saw someone say Cuban is playing the long con and is going to make Deandre think they are trading for him or signing him and then back out last second. they were just joking, but That would be awesome.

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That's a good way to never get a good free agent again

Yea it was just a joke.

Not many free agents receive a max deal, agree verbally to that deal, decide to then completely ice the offering team, mockingly post social media pictures of himself being "trapped" by current teammates, and then sign with his original team. A&M or not, Jordan acts like a *****. It's his and Rivers' fault why Wes' contract is so burdensome in the first place.

He didn't force Cuban to max out Wes...

Cuban and Matthews had a handshake deal that if Jordan did join the team, Matthews would sign for $50-$55MM, and if Jordan did not join the team, Matthews would sign for $70-72MM. Cuban honored the deal after Jordan reneged.

I am a little pissed that the Mavs appear so locked in on DJ. There's almost a 0% chance he's a part of a mavs contender. I literally don't see the point in acquiring him.

I would be going full bore after Capela. Worst case scenario is that Hou matches and they're essentially hamstrung with Harden and CP3.

Then I would be targeting the young guys like Randle and Favors. Again, worst case scenario is that they don't pan out but at least you tried your hand on some young potential up and comers. You'll end up in the exact same place you know you'd be with a washed, 34 yr old, DJ.

Sometimes I wonder wtf this FO is doing with Free Agency.

If you go all out for Capela, you risk Morey matching after missing out on your other targets.

DJ can be the bird in hand.

Guitarsoup said:

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If you go all out for Capela, you risk Morey matching after missing out on your other targets.

DJ can be the bird in hand.

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Good point.

I'd still go after Favors and Randle and just wait for DJ to make his opt-in decision. If he opts in and Clips don't want my deal, eff em. If DJ opts out, I'd tender a 2yr-$40m deal. If he doesn't want it, eff him. There's no scenario where acquiring DJ via any means makes Mavs anything better than an 8th seed.

M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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If you go all out for Capela, you risk Morey matching after missing out on your other targets.

DJ can be the bird in hand.

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Good point.

I'd still go after Favors and Randle and just wait for DJ to make his opt-in decision. If he opts in and Clips don't want my deal, eff em. If DJ opts out, I'd tender a 2yr-$40m deal. If he doesn't want it, eff him. There's no scenario where acquiring DJ via any means makes Mavs anything better than an 8th seed.

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But the other thing is if DJ opts in and the Mavs trade Wes for him, they still have space to go after more pieces. That is what Dallas wants.

If they can't work a trade for DJ, then they only have the space and the team is significantly worse that it could have been.

Trade Wes for DJ.

C - Jordan
PF - Dirk
SF - Barnes
SG - Luka
PG - Smith

Solid starting lineup right off the bat.

Bench:
Post: Powell
Wing:
Point: Barea/Yogi

So spend the cap space on a guy like Rodney Hood and/or Rudy Gay to come off the bench. Maybe Alex Len to play down low. Maybe Steal Caldwell-Pope from the Lakers to have a solid D&3. Getting a couple solid players would be great because most teams will only have the MLE. So you could split up the cap space and having just over the MLE could get you some really solid players.

I def agree with all that. We'll see if DJ opts in and LA agrees to that trade. (I agree that's the best short term scenario)

Obviously not a likely scenario because of all the DJ talk, but from the beginning I really wanted Randle. He's also from the area and would be a good fit.

Mavs are at 76.6 with:

Jordan
Dirk
Barnes
Luka
Smith
Powell
Barea

Waive Noel, Curry and everyone else besides Yogi and assume stays for 3mm. Now 79.6. Plus roster charges: 4*800k = 3.2mm.

So you are at 82.8 and each person you sign counts for their cost minus 800k (min salary.)

My top player targets would be:
Favors PF
Isaiah Thomas PG - see if he would take a 10mm 1+1 deal to come off the bench as a 6th man and prove he is healthy.
Will Barton SG/SF - perfect ft, but I bet he wants a bigger role somewhere and not sure he would start over Barnes of Luka. I think he will stay put and get paid more.
Avery Bradley SG - elite defender, D&3 player.

Landing Favors+Barton would be crazy, though.

Denver is over the cap before signing Jokic to his expected Max deal and Barton. Looks like Michael Porter (3mm) is Barton's replacement. Signing Porter and Jokic puts denver $12mm over the luxury tax before giving a dime to Barton. With so few teams with cap space, Mavs could get a steal there for just over the MLE.

If you like what I did there, donate to my patreon or tell Cuban to hire me.

Make Dallas Great Again

I like Favors a lot as a player too, but I haven't seen any media.articles indicating he's actually available.

I think Favors is a Jazz lean, but wants to take visits. Utah is at 92mm before they resign any of their free agents (Neto, Exum, Stockton, Favors.) Things could get tight - not sure they will pay the luxury tax with that team.

Ah, that makes sense.

Barton and Bradley would be nice. Those are the kinds of pieces that round out contenders.

Bad news

Steins says we didnt want to give up draft compensation, and will "pursue him in free agency" per league sources.

Dont know if this means we view him as our top free agent target, or just A target in free agency.

Dirk to Lakers confirmed

Any chance the Mav's are leading DeAndre on, got him to decline his option, going to keep him on the hook deep into free agency....then just say..."nah, we good"?

That would be so awesome!

I was real interested in the sign and trade, and then still going out and getting someone else. Not sure I want to max out Deandre for 3-4 years when someone like Favors could be had for probably half the amount and might actually fit better.

However, if Carlisle thinks that Deandre is what this team needs, then I'm for it.

DJ could still be signed and traded to the Mavs for Wes. Long shot without the Mavs adding picks, though.