Honestly think many of you are overthinking this. In the first half the Spurs were unconscious, and in the second half they couldn't hit a wide open jumper to save their life. Just a normal return to mean that they win that game by 15+. It took all time half to half variance for that to happen. This wasn't a case of the Knicks doing something different, the Spurs just missed shots.

The Spurs could play that exact same game each of the next three and win all three. They just have to not miss nearly every open shot for two full quarters.

Guitarsoup said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

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Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

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Na both third and fourth we were in bonus but kept hacking threes. That's dumb.

And if you're gonna shoot threes then run the clock down to three or less instead of with 15-20 on the clock. You gave them extra possessions in what was largely a math problem at that point.

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Did you watch it? We drove and were hacked and they refused to blow the whistle despite NYK getting in the bonus so early. We had a TON of **** that should have been called.

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Yes I watched. Did you? We took seven straight jumpers from the 6:30 mark after getting into the bonus. Which of those do you think the refs sucked on their whistles over?

Man I am gonna be thinking about this game for years.

AggieEP said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

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Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

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Na both third and fourth we were in bonus but kept hacking threes. That's dumb.

And if you're gonna shoot threes then run the clock down to three or less instead of with 15-20 on the clock. You gave them extra possessions in what was largely a math problem at that point.

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You run your offense and take the open shots it generates. This ain't ****ing middle school in 1997, you don't dribble around to run clock and take whatever shot you get with 3 seconds on the clock.

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InfectionAg is 100% correct. There will be a lot of bellyaching in the next two days about 3 point shots, but the math is beyond clear. If you can't get a layup/dunk you should be shooting a 3 on each possession.

The assumption from casual fans is that instead of shooting a 3 their team could generate an easy 2 somehow, well unfortunately all defenses are built to keep you from getting those easy 2s. So for the most part, when fans demand less 3s, what they would end up with if the coach listened would be a bunch of middies that are statistically about the same percentage of a shot as a 3 is but you only get 2 points for it.

I'll say it for the millionth time, Wemby is not yet a low post monster... and he may never be. It's not that hard for defenses to force us to do a lot of our work from the perimeter and they are layering their coverage to force us to shoot 3s. I'd rather have an open Champ 3 over a wild Castle shot against a double team down low ALL day.

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That's the problem. We never even attempted to drive. SO MANY possessions we made one pass and immediately shot a 3. Never once tried to get into the paint. Never once took more than 8 seconds off the clock.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

---

Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

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Summy, that you?

AggieEP said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

---

Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

---

Na both third and fourth we were in bonus but kept hacking threes. That's dumb.

And if you're gonna shoot threes then run the clock down to three or less instead of with 15-20 on the clock. You gave them extra possessions in what was largely a math problem at that point.

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You run your offense and take the open shots it generates. This ain't ****ing middle school in 1997, you don't dribble around to run clock and take whatever shot you get with 3 seconds on the clock.

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InfectionAg is 100% correct. There will be a lot of bellyaching in the next two days about 3 point shots, but the math is beyond clear. If you can't get a layup/dunk you should be shooting a 3 on each possession.

The assumption from casual fans is that instead of shooting a 3 their team could generate an easy 2 somehow, well unfortunately all defenses are built to keep you from getting those easy 2s. So for the most part, when fans demand less 3s, what they would end up with if the coach listened would be a bunch of middies that are statistically about the same percentage of a shot as a 3 is but you only get 2 points for it.

I'll say it for the millionth time, Wemby is not yet a low post monster... and he may never be. It's not that hard for defenses to force us to do a lot of our work from the perimeter and they are layering their coverage to force us to shoot 3s. I'd rather have an open Champ 3 over a wild Castle shot against a double team down low ALL day.

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the math and analytics are nice and all, but it's not typically considering a scenario where you have a 29 point lead. Or a 20 point lead with 9:30 to go.

AggieEP said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

---

Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

---

Na both third and fourth we were in bonus but kept hacking threes. That's dumb.

And if you're gonna shoot threes then run the clock down to three or less instead of with 15-20 on the clock. You gave them extra possessions in what was largely a math problem at that point.

---

You run your offense and take the open shots it generates. This ain't ****ing middle school in 1997, you don't dribble around to run clock and take whatever shot you get with 3 seconds on the clock.

---

InfectionAg is 100% correct. There will be a lot of bellyaching in the next two days about 3 point shots, but the math is beyond clear. If you can't get a layup/dunk you should be shooting a 3 on each possession.

The assumption from casual fans is that instead of shooting a 3 their team could generate an easy 2 somehow, well unfortunately all defenses are built to keep you from getting those easy 2s. So for the most part, when fans demand less 3s, what they would end up with if the coach listened would be a bunch of middies that are statistically about the same percentage of a shot as a 3 is but you only get 2 points for it.

I'll say it for the millionth time, Wemby is not yet a low post monster... and he may never be. It's not that hard for defenses to force us to do a lot of our work from the perimeter and they are layering their coverage to force us to shoot 3s. I'd rather have an open Champ 3 over a wild Castle shot against a double team down low ALL day.

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This is a false equivalency. It's not either jack up jump shots or shoot contested middies. The issue is the lack of ball screens, off-ball screens, rim running, ball movement, etc. that's how you attack the paint. I'm certainly not saying this falls squarely on Mitch, but the lack of an offensive game plan in the second half has to fall on him. Not calling a time out during the 4th quarter run and trying settle us down on offense falls on him. Two or even three things can be true. Individual player execution was an issue. Coaching was an issue. Settling for jumpers because we weren't executing plays to get players some space was an issue.

There is a ton of blame to pass around for this collapse, but it'd be absurd to not put a large amount of the blame on Mitch, as well.

We were up 20 with under 10 to go. You simply need to not give open 3s, make sure to run screens and move the ball on offense and you should win 100% of the time. Instead, we went with a junk defense that doesn't work and a lineup that could not succeed. Play three more minutes with the guys out there and NY waves the white towel

jagged said:

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AggieEP said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

---

Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

---

Na both third and fourth we were in bonus but kept hacking threes. That's dumb.

And if you're gonna shoot threes then run the clock down to three or less instead of with 15-20 on the clock. You gave them extra possessions in what was largely a math problem at that point.

---

You run your offense and take the open shots it generates. This ain't ****ing middle school in 1997, you don't dribble around to run clock and take whatever shot you get with 3 seconds on the clock.

---

InfectionAg is 100% correct. There will be a lot of bellyaching in the next two days about 3 point shots, but the math is beyond clear. If you can't get a layup/dunk you should be shooting a 3 on each possession.

The assumption from casual fans is that instead of shooting a 3 their team could generate an easy 2 somehow, well unfortunately all defenses are built to keep you from getting those easy 2s. So for the most part, when fans demand less 3s, what they would end up with if the coach listened would be a bunch of middies that are statistically about the same percentage of a shot as a 3 is but you only get 2 points for it.

I'll say it for the millionth time, Wemby is not yet a low post monster... and he may never be. It's not that hard for defenses to force us to do a lot of our work from the perimeter and they are layering their coverage to force us to shoot 3s. I'd rather have an open Champ 3 over a wild Castle shot against a double team down low ALL day.

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the math and analytics are nice and all, but it's not typically considering a scenario where you have a 29 point lead. Or a 20 point lead with 9:30 to go.

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Yeah, when you're up 20 you shorten the game and limit possessions - run more clock on offense and try to get the line where your EV is higher than just chucking up 3s.

Mitch also coached them to that 29 point lead. You don't accidentally have the largest halftime lead for a road team in finals history.

Why would we change our offensive strategy after absolutely demolishing them in the first half?

The team still generated open looks for large stretches of the 2nd half but just couldn't make a shot as the pressure mounted. Obviously the coach can take some blame for not helping to get the team back focused and settled, and maybe a future version of Mitch uses his timeouts a bit differently to help calm the team and remind them to just relax and trust the work they've put in.

AggieEP said:

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Mitch also coached them to that 29 point lead. You don't accidentally have the largest halftime lead for a road team in finals history.

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LOL

Wemby going 9-25 was pretty awful too. Especially when you are the tallest dude on the court. He will be an all time great, but he certainly wasn't last night.

When the team desperately needs a basket we have nobody to reliably go to and Wemby certainly isn't there yet and may never be that guy. Crazy we couldn't get a couple baskets down low somehow from Wemby during the collapse.

Fox thinks he's that guy, and may have been in the past, which makes it even worse, because he clearly isn't that guy now. Castle would be the guy now if the refs would actually call a foul and if he could cut down on turnovers; Harper will be that guy as early as next year and may already be that guy but we don't give him a chance to be that guy in crunch time.

Our end of game sequences have been completely atrocious. If Castle doesn't hit that big (kinda lucky) 3 last game we are talking 4 straight late game collapses.

To this teams credit they are resilient and keep fighting but we have no go to player to get us a basket when we need it thr most.

This has been completely gut-wrenching because we should be up 3-1. We have been the better team the entire series but they finish the games in crunch time while we flounder.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Honestly think many of you are overthinking this. In the first half the Spurs were unconscious, and in the second half they couldn't hit a wide open jumper to save their life. Just a normal return to mean that they win that game by 15+. It took all time half to half variance for that to happen. This wasn't a case of the Knicks doing something different, the Spurs just missed shots.

The Spurs could play that exact same game each of the next three and win all three. They just have to not miss nearly every open shot for two full quarters.

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I agree in that the Knick's were almost irrelevant in this. The entire game was about the Spurs. And I keep coming back to what an unbelievable job you have to do as a coach to have your team shoot 1,000 missed 3s without adjusting the approach or flow of the offense when leading by so much. Just world class display of bad coaching.

It looks like we took 17 3 pointers v 6 shots in the paint in the second half. If you look at the first half, you can't even tell how many shots in the paint were taken from the chart because it's so congested at the rim.

Yes, we shot incredible from 3 to start the game, but even without the insane 1st half %, we are still winning with reasonable margin just by how we attacked.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Yes, our lack of experience showed, but a large portion of this needs to be put on Mitch. Again, we had 6 free throws after getting into the bonus with 7 minutes left. The second Mitch sees us settling for jump shots a few possessions in a row, a timeout needs to be called and he needed to get on them about getting into the paint. We had a huge advantage and we didn't use it.

---

Again, this is antiquated thinking. The data couldn't be more clear. Telling NBA caliber three point shooters to stop shooting open threes across large swaths of game time is coaching malpractice. It's literally like an offensive coordinator telling his offense to stop throwing the football for an entire quarter.

Every one making this point is just objectively, outrageously wrong. It's not debatable or a matter of opinion. You just flat out don't do that and no coach does.

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This is such a ridiculous and arrogant response. This has nothing to do with variances and stats. This has everything to do with not understanding where you are in a game and not having the ability to adjust to that reality. As to your analogy, if your team is up by 3-4 touchdowns your OC better damn well tell his offense to stop throwing the ball. You do that so the clock won't stop because you want to limit your opponent's opportunities to score touchdowns. You pound the rock and burn the clock. You would do this especially if you went 3 and out on two straight positions and stalled the clock because of those incompletions.

In your practice, would you keep using the antibiotic that has gone "2-12 in the third" just because it worked so well before or because the stats say so. I'd like to think that the approach should be tailored to the individual patient and the current circumstances.

The circumstances were this, it is late in a game and your shooters have gone cold. It happens. The Spurs inability, whether secondary to coaching or inexperienced players, to adjust to that reality cost them the game. What is objectively correct is that the proper thing to do in that type of scenario is to slow the game down, take shots late in the shot clock, and drive to basket when you are in the bonus. The difference that game was 2 possessions that the Knicks would never had had if the Spurs weren't throwing up 3s, open or not, with 20 seconds left on the shot clock time and time again. It is the same mentality then led Fox to attempt a shot surrounded by 3 knicks instead of running out the clock.

Epic choke job…and I ultimately blame coach…

Stop chucking up quick 3s in the 3rd and 4th…

Work the clock and for the love of all that is holy…work the paint…ESPECIALLY with NY in the penalty…

Coach didn't know how to handle crunch time…learned a very hard and ugly lesson last night…

Fox you know what else lets you go up 3?

Run around, make them foul you, make your free throws