I didn't see this posted on here, it was a decent read. Nothing really insightful, but puts it all out there for you

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24397614/fivetool-player-craig-biggios-hall-of-fame-case

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the article that I always found to be a great indicator of Biggio's ability is his HR totals after the move to Enron. Some people point to it as a sign of PED use, but in looking at the details of where he hit his HRs, it's more a sign of him adjusting his play to the new ballpark, and working on that Crawford chop to send it just over the left field wall. Looking beyond mere stats reveals so much more about his skill as a ballplayer. It's a shame he wasn't first ballot, to not get in this year would be ridiculous

Joe DiMaggio, Jimmie Foxx, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Nap Lajoie, Mel Ott, Eddie Mathews, Roy Campanella and Harmon Killebrew.

None of these guys were first ballot. It wouldve been more shameful had biggio got in on the first try.

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Joe DiMaggio, Jimmie Foxx, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Nap Lajoie, Mel Ott, Eddie Mathews, Roy Campanella and Harmon Killebrew.

None of these guys were first ballot. It wouldve been more shameful had biggio got in on the first try.

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Wow! Hard to argue this logic except that DiMaggio, Foxx, Speaker and Young should not have even required a vote in the first place.

No kidding. What the hell? Those guys should have been handed their busts on the day they played their last game.

There are several voters that refuse to vote for anyone on their first try. Many didn't vote for Nolan Ryan. Those writers should have their voting privileges revoked. Too many people have their own personal agendas and have no business voting. Personally, I think it's all rather asinine. You're either a HoFer or you're not. The premise of not being a "first ballot HoFer" is stupid. They should just add tiers to the HoF. That's essentially the mindset that many of the voters take. Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze. Then plate the busts with the proper metal.

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Many didn't vote for Nolan Ryan.

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I hope by many you mean 6.

Results are coming out Jan 8th (Wed) correct?

It should be the early afternoon of the 8th. Early predicitions are the Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, and Biggio make it (based on 15% of ballots).

I think if Thomas gets in on the first ballot, Edgar Martinez will eventually get in.

It's actually 23% of the vote now:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand

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None of these guys were first ballot. It wouldve been more shameful had biggio got in on the first try

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So what? Clearly that was a mistake. The idea of a first ballot hall of famer is a ****ing joke. Your career ends and you either are or you aren't. How can anyone justify the concept where your career wasn't good enough to be a hall of famer 7 years after you retired...but after 15 years it now is? Give me a break

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I think if Thomas gets in on the first ballot, Edgar Martinez will eventually get in.

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I sure hope so, although it is trending down this year for him.

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None of these guys were first ballot. It wouldve been more shameful had biggio got in on the first try

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So what? Clearly that was a mistake. The idea of a first ballot hall of famer is a ****ing joke. Your career ends and you either are or you aren't. How can anyone justify the concept where your career wasn't good enough to be a hall of famer 7 years after you retired...but after 15 years it now is? Give me a break

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Can't you be, upon retirement, a First Ballot Hall of Famer or not, too?

The first ballot thing is to differentiate levels of greatness. No one thinks Barry Larkin was on the same level as Babe Ruth, and first ballot voting is one way to recognize that.

I don't really get the voting a guy in after 10 years, but I guess like many things legends grow over time.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/6/2014 11:33a).]

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I sure hope so, although it is trending down this year for him.

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I wouldn't put too much emphasis on downward trending percentages these next two years as a lot of talent is coming through. There are 10 guys I would probably select ahead of Martinez eventhough I think he deserves to be in.

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The first ballot thing is to differentiate levels of greatness.

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Does the plaque in the HoF state how many ballots you were on?

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The first ballot thing is to differentiate levels of greatness.

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Does the plaque in the HoF state how many ballots you were on?

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Nope, but somehow we find out anyways.

So, if the HoF doesn't find it important enough to distinguish a first ballot, why should those voting?

First ballot is just stupid. You deserve it or you don't. They need to get rid of the limit of 10 votes/year as well.

http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/hall-fame-weekend/past-ceremonies/1962-induction-ceremony

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First ballot Hall of Famers Jackie Robinson and Bob Feller were enshrined along with Veterans Committee selections Edd Roush and Bill McKechnie on July 23, 1962.

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http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/hall-fame-weekend/past-ceremonies/2001-induction-ceremony

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KIRBY PUCKETT: Named on 82.1 percent of ballots cast in his first year of eligibility

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http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/hall-fame-weekend/past-ceremonies/2007-induction-ceremony

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TONY GWYNN: With the seventh-highest percentage in Hall of Fame history – and second-highest vote total – Tony Gwynn earned election to the Hall on his first ballot.

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CAL RIPKEN JR: With the third highest percentage in Hall of Fame history – and the highest vote total – Cal Ripken Jr. earned election to the Hall on his first ballot.

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http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/hall-fame-weekend/2009-recap

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RICKEY HENDERSON: Rickey Henderson became the 44th player elected by the Baseball Writers Association of America on his first time on the ballot when he earned 94.8 percent of the vote on Jan. 12. Henderson's percentage is the 13th-highest in Hall of Fame history.

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Someone up there cares.

They don't put a lot of things on their plaques. Should they send out pre-prepared copies of nominees plaques and ask the voters to select the best plaques?

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/6/2014 5:15p).]

Until they make gold, silver and bronze busts, or have different tiers, or wings at cooperstown...1st ballot means something to mean. A guy like biggio shouldn't be in the same breath of baseball's great, but since he had a long, consistent and pretty good (not great) career, I don't have too big of problem letting him in...just not on the 1st try. Its one of the few ways to distinguish the greats, from the biggios. Maybe 1st ballot guys should have a platinum bust like ibrad suggested.

Yeah, Biggio deserves to be with guys like Dimaggio and Cy Young instead of a guy like Lou Brock....

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Yeah, Biggio deserves to be with guys like Dimaggio and Cy Young instead of a guy like Lou Brock....

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They've made some mistakes, just like I'm sure we would all disagree with some of the guys they've let in the Hall at all, whether it was on Ballot 1 or Ballot 101.

However, the list of 1st ballot Hall of Famers is generally a bunch of incredibly impressive players.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/7/2014 1:25a).]

I'll take the 1995 to 1999 Craig Biggio over any other second baseman to play MLB post-WWII. And I'll take the 95 to 99 Biggio over any other leadoff hitter to play MLB post-WWII. End of story

^ Yes

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I'll take the 1995 to 1999 Craig Biggio over any other second baseman to play MLB post-WWII. And I'll take the 95 to 99 Biggio over any other leadoff hitter to play MLB post-WWII. End of story

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Joe Morgan in the early 70s.

Jackie Robinson? Rod Carew (sort of)? Chase Utley had a pretty special run. And I really think people havn't quite digested how special this Robinson Cano guy is.

I'm not even sure Biggio was the best 2nd baseman on the field during Biggio's prime.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/7/2014 4:23p).]

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And I'll take the 95 to 99 Biggio over any other leadoff hitter to play MLB post-WWII. End of story

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Over Ricky Henderson? Wow! That is a really weak story!

That was the back end of Rickey's career, but damn I just looked at his stats and that 1998 season just does not computer, at freaking 39!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml

I know it's unlikely to happen, but I'd take Biggio missing this year, if it guaranteed he and Bagwell would be inducted at the same time in 2015

look at Ricky's WAR v Biggio's WAR in that time frame.

5 year WARs

Biggio '95-'99 - 28.1
Ichiro '01-'05 - 29.9
Henderson '80-'84 - 34.8
Henderson '83-'87 - 33.7
Morgan '72-'76 - 37.8
Utley '05-'09 - 31.4

Side note - Henderson's 11 year run from 1980-1990...wow. 80.5 WAR.

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Biggio '95-'99 - 28.1
Ichiro '01-'05 - 29.9
Henderson '80-'84 - 34.8
Henderson '83-'87 - 33.7
Morgan '72-'76 - 37.8
Utley '05-'09 - 31.4

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You can add Ryne Sandberg to the list, he had a WAR of 88-92 of 32.6.

But none of those guys are astros, so W wouldn't take them

Robinson Cano has put up a 34.2 WAR over the past 5 seasons.

Jackie Robinson put up a 42.1!!! WAR from 1949 to 1953. He only played a little 2nd base in 1953 but was full time at 2nd the first 4 years.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 1/8/2014 12:14p).]

Pedroia has a 30.8 WAR for his last 5 full seasons. There's another for the list.

Got 74.8%

Travesty...Biggio did not make it.