Mike Trout might be the next realistic chance to be unanimous.

Think about this. The all time leaders in hits, walks, home runs, games played, at-bats, Cy Young awards, and MVP awards are not in the hall of fame. Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

John Black, Ft Bend Herald in Houston, did not vote for Bagwell. Nice...at a way to boost subscriptions.

You want to correct HOF voting? It all needs to be public. Besides the 3 voters in the witness protection program who didn't vote for Jr, here are some discrepancies in the public/non-public votes (59.3% known)

Nomar Garciaparra got 1 public and 7 non public votes.
Jason Kendall got 0 public, 2 non public votes.
Mike Sweeney got 0 public, 3 non public votes.

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Mike Trout might be the next realistic chance to be unanimous.

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Carlos Correa

Anchor,

The hall of fame is chock-full of cheaters and gamblers. These three are all paying the price for being unrepentant and for having poor public and media relations. It makes no sense for a borderline hall of famer and an admitted PED user like Piazza to be in and not Bonds or Clemens.

Agreed. I'll add all three are very abrasive and have made lots of enemies.

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You want to correct HOF voting? It all needs to be public. Besides the 3 voters in the witness protection program who didn't vote for Jr, here are some discrepancies in the public/non-public votes (59.3% known)

Nomar Garciaparra got 1 public and 7 non public votes.
Jason Kendall got 0 public, 2 non public votes.
Mike Sweeney got 0 public, 3 non public votes.

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Agree completely. And whoever voted for Kendall and Sweeney need to have voting privileges immediately revoked, especially if they did not use all 10 votes.

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Anchor,

The hall of fame is chock-full of cheaters and gamblers. These three are all paying the price for being unrepentant and for having poor public and media relations. It makes no sense for a borderline hall of famer and an admitted PED user like Piazza to be in and not Bonds or Clemens.

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Admitted taking a legal and allowed substance. Big difference.

IIRC, there was no ban on PED's when Bonds and Clemens used them. Is that correct? If so, can we really call it cheating?

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IIRC, there was no ban on PED's when Bonds and Clemens used them. Is that correct? If so, can we really call it cheating?

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I think steroids and HGH were technically banned at the time by MLB but think that there was not any testing. Also, even though a substance may not be technically banned, I think the fact that it is illegal makes it look more like cheating. With that said, I think Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall of Fame. They are two of the best players to have ever played the game.

ManRam next year will be an interesting case in how voters distinguish smoke versus fire.

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ManRam next year will be an interesting case in how voters distinguish smoke versus fire.

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He will/should be subject to the same treatment as Palmeiro

You would think he wouldn't get a single vote. But it's the BBWAA

I believe it wasn't illegal in baseball; however it was illegal in the United States.

go figure

Career statistics
Batting average .301
Hits 2,468
Home runs 521
Runs batted in 1,704
Career highlights and awards
5 All-Star (1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997)
4 Silver Slugger Award winner (1991, 1993, 1994, 2000)
2 AL MVP (1993, 1994)
1997 AL batting title
Stolen Bases 32
19 year career

Career statistics
Batting average .297
Hits 2,314
Home runs 449
Runs batted in 1,529
Career highlights and awards
4 All-Star (1994, 1996, 1997, 1999)
Gold Glove Award winner (1994)
3 Silver Slugger Award winner (1994, 1997, 1999)
1994 NL MVP
1991 NL Rookie of the Year
Stolen bases 202
15 year career

One went first ballot and the other is struggling to get in. Tell me how this makes sense.

#BLM

Same thing with piazza. The market bias is so ridiculous

Frank Thomas was 6'5" 245 as a rookie so no one thought he did roids.

B**** was 6'0" 195 as a rookie and then got up to 215 with huge forearms so everything thinks he did roids.

But I think its safe to say Thomas had a better overall career. I think his peak was a little high and his career lasted longer. Agree that they are very similar numbers. How one is a lock and one isn't is all about perception (Chicago vs Houston & no suspension vs some suspension).

One had a video game named after him, the other did not.

You'e telling me a professional athlete was able to put on 20lbs of muscle after he became a millionaire and was able to work with team and personal trainers?

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edit: wrong thread.

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another idiotic part of the voting this year is Billy Wagner got 10.5% while Hoffman got 67.3%.

Because the luck of his team having lots of 3 run leads in the 9th inning that he came in and didn't lose is a skill Trevor Hoffmann excelled at.

And another irritating point i have, Frank Thomas' home run numbers after age 35

36 years old 18
37 years old 12
38 years old 39! While playing majority of his games in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in MLB. Yet no one talks about any performance enhancing drugs?

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And another irritating point i have, Frank Thomas' home run numbers after age 35

36 years old 18
37 years old 12
38 years old 39! While playing majority of his games in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in MLB. Yet no one talks about any performance enhancing drugs?

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You conveniently left out that Frank in his 36 & 37 year old seasons and had 240 and 105 at bats each of those seasons due to injuries and 466 at bats at 38. In fact his home runs per plate appearance were 13.3 at 36, 8.75 @ 37, and 11.9 @ 38 don't show a great deal abnormality. The big drop off for Thomas late in his career was his overall batting average dropped compared to his prime and his strikeout rate increased which tends to indicate he was swinging for the fences more so that in his prime. Biggio's numbers after the age of 35 are questionable as well, but of course we all know he changed his swing and approach to hit more home runs.

Biggio yanked everything into the 310 ft Crawford boxes

My last Astros game at the dome was a Biggio walk off HR into left field in the bottom of the 9th.

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And another irritating point i have, Frank Thomas' home run numbers after age 35

36 years old 18
37 years old 12
38 years old 39! While playing majority of his games in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in MLB. Yet no one talks about any performance enhancing drugs?

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Amen. This never gets talked about.

hitting 39 home runs at age 38 is highly questionable. Because that was one of the hallmarks / tell-tale signs of the 'roid users -- accomplishing amazing things past the age of 34 or 35. That rarely, rarely happened prior to the PED era.

Most players went into natural decline past the age of 33. A few guys still hit a lot of home runs at ages 35 & 36 like Mike Schmidt or Willie Stargell or even 38 & 39 like Hank Aaron. But that was it. And of course Aaron was playing in the "launching pad" in Atlanta...not cavernous Oakland Alameda County Coliseum

Biggio is a bad example. Check his home vs. road splits past the age of 35. They are almost embarrassing. He was trying (and had good success) jerking everything he could into the Crawford Boxes

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Biggio is a bad example. Check his home vs. road splits past the age of 35. They are almost embarrassing. He was trying (and had good success) jerking everything he could into the Crawford Boxes

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It got him ahead of Joe Morgan & Ryne Sandberg in HRs.

and a couple of more things I've posted before...

Biggio was never the same player after his knee injury in 2000. There is a decided "before" and 'after" to his career. Ultimately his outstanding 5-year stretch from 1995 to 1999 is what got him into the Hall of Fame.

and regarding Bagwell...one thing is his favor from a non-PED standpoint is his relative consistency in home run hitting. He has a low "standard deviation' so to speak during the height of the 'roid era from 1997 to 2003. There is not a Luis Gonzalez-type spike or Mark McGwire spike. He never reached the 50 HR mark.

also some folks may wonder why Bagwell only made 4 all-star teams in his career. He paid a price in that category due to the mega-roiders at first base. Many of them posted even better numbers than Jeff during that 1997 to 2003 period

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and regarding Bagwell...one thing is his favor from a non-PED standpoint is his relative consistency in home run hitting. He has a low "standard deviation' so to speak during the height of the 'roid era from 1997 to 2003. There is not a Luis Gonzalez-type spike or Mark McGwire spike. He never reached the 50 HR mark.

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Hm... in 1994 Bagwell was on pace for 57 home runs and had a .368 BA. How can that not be considered and Luis Gonzalez type of spike. After hitting 20 in 1993 and being on pace for 57 in 1994 he hit 21 on 1995. That the definition of deviation.

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and regarding Bagwell...one thing is his favor from a non-PED standpoint is his relative consistency in home run hitting. He has a low "standard deviation' so to speak during the height of the 'roid era from 1997 to 2003. There is not a Luis Gonzalez-type spike or Mark McGwire spike. He never reached the 50 HR mark.

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Hm... in 1994 Bagwell was on pace for 57 home runs and had a .368 BA. How can that not be considered and Luis Gonzalez type of spike. After hitting 20 in 1993 and being on pace for 57 in 1994 he hit 21 on 1995. That the definition of deviation.

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If you take out 94 he had a steady build up to his early 30s and then declined plus his sudden drop off at the end of his career/injury.