I wouldn't mind seeing how Tebow would do against major league pitching. Why not?

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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You sound bitter...

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Its called honesty. Not bitterness.

1) Tebow is not good enough to play at the level he is currently playing.
2) He's not earned a promotion.
3) His persona draws a great deal of media attention.
4) He is genuinely a good person.
5) The Mets need any distraction they can get because they are terrible.

Tell me, if his name was Joe Smith, would he have gotten promoted based on his performance?

I think the thing with Tebow is that he is a great athlete and, by all accounts, a great guy, but he's just not elite at a specific sport. I don't blame him for chasing the dream though

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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For someone who hasn't played since high school I think he is doing pretty well. Don't see the need to bag on a guy for chasing his dream and oh btw just got promoted into high A ball.

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Who is "bagging" on him? I don't think a single person faults him for trying his hand at baseball, and for someone that hasn't played since high school, a .220-ish BA in the minors isn't bad. I think any of us would jump at the chance he received, but let's be honest. He got the chance and he got promoted, not because of his talents, but because he sells tickets. It's not a knock on him.

bigcat22 said:

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I think the thing with Tebow is that he is a great athlete and, by all accounts, a great guy, but he's just not elite at a specific sport. I don't blame him for chasing the dream though

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Agreed. And while I think he's not very talented at baseball, I don't even fault the Mets for this PR stunt. There are probably countless guys bouncing around the lower levels that are "fillers". They'll be down there until the team cuts them loose, then go on with the rest of their life outside of baseball. Why not use one of those "filler" players to sell some tickets and merchandise?

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Guess y'all must of hated Jordan as well.

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Who here hates Tebow?

Was it a PR stunt when Jordan played? Absolutely. Calling these things a PR stunt doesn't mean we hate Tebow.

St. Lucie has been starting an outfielder who is hitting .197 with a .482 OPS, among other true baseball luminaries.

And Tim Tebow, .220 BA and ..648 OPS and all, was actually hitting as well, if not better, as the other outfielders on the Columbia Fireflies roster.

My argument has never been that it is not tied to PR, but I will continue to argue his performance is fine for the level he was at and the level he's been promoted to.

Folks might not hate Tebow, but folks have said its a disgusting a guy so clearly lacking in ability for the levels he playing at has been given a shot.

astros4545 said:

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Did Joe Smith win a Heisman

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The Heisman is a measure of baseball skills?

RetiredAg said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Guess y'all must of hated Jordan as well.

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Who here hates Tebow?

Was it a PR stunt when Jordan played? Absolutely. Calling these things a PR stunt doesn't mean we hate Tebow.

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I don't think it was a PR stunt for Jordan. Jordan needed to avoid the NBA and media or risk falling into Pete Rose's level of abandonment. He goes and hides in Birmingham for a couple of years, the NBA and media realize they've lost their most marketable commodity and issues a judgment that clears him of any past indiscretions. He hangs up the spikes and laces on a pair of sneakers. It is not the same thing.

And I agree that NOBODY on here said anything that remotely resembles a hatred for Tebow. Some just aren't enamored enough by his celebrity to look past his lack of baseball skills.

I think an area that you're leaving out is the age difference between Tebow and his peers at Low A and High A. Looking at the Columbia stats, the most comparable player in terms of games played and stats is some guy named Gene Cone. Cone is also 7 years younger. This is the problem with the PR stunt aspect of this. Now, again, I don't fault Tebow for this, but this move only makes sense from 1 of 2 angles - 1) PR move to sell tickets in lower levels 2) the Mets system is so pathetic at the lower levels that they promote a nearly 30 yr old, error prone, light hitting OF. I don't see the promotion as a vindication of Tebow's playing skills.

Gene Cone:
.239 BA
.349 OBP
.300 SLG
.649 OPS
54/42 - K/BB ratio

Tim Tebow:
.220 BA
.311 OBP
.336 SLG
.648 OPS
69/23 - K/BB ratio

So, which one do you prefer to invest further development into? Especially given that Cone is 7 years younger. There really isn't much of a baseball argument to be made in promoting him, and I would argue it would be much easier for a guy like Cone to transition to the next level than someone like Tebow who took a decade off from the sport. I think that's why you see people say it's "disgusting". It has nothing to do w/ Tebow, but really a commentary on the Mets organization.

Quote:

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I don't think it was a PR stunt for Jordan. Jordan needed to avoid the NBA and media or risk falling into Pete Rose's level of abandonment. He goes and hides in Birmingham for a couple of years, the NBA and media realize they've lost their most marketable commodity and issues a judgment that clears him of any past indiscretions. He hangs up the spikes and laces on a pair of sneakers. It is not the same thing.

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Fair point.

Quote:

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My argument has never been that it is not tied to PR, but I will continue to argue his performance is fine for the level he was at and the level he's been promoted to.

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If he was 20 years old, sure.

I think Gene Cones days are numbered as well

Say Chowdah said:

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Quote:

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My argument has never been that it is not tied to PR, but I will continue to argue his performance is fine for the level he was at and the level he's been promoted to.

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If he was 20 years old, sure.

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Exactly. This far too often gets overlooked. You have to take into consideration the age of these players as well when trying to compare. An 18 or 22 yr old old hitting at Tebow levels in Low A is far more promising than a 29 or 30 yr old doing that.

The fact that he's older is perhaps a reason to move him through the developmental track faster.

TheAngelFlight said:

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The fact that he's older is perhaps a reason to move him through the developmental track faster.

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Maybe if he were actually producing. He's not though. He's a .220 hitter who is apparently a defensive liability at Low A. If he were 29 and raking down there, then sure, promote him fast. But he's not.

Yep. 29 year olds can't be placed on the 8-year developmental track.

If they're going to be giving Tebow at bats they might as well treat him in a way that he'll possibly be able to progress on a timeline to be useful, on the off-chance he shows he can be useful.

RetiredAg said:

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Quote:

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I don't think it was a PR stunt for Jordan. Jordan needed to avoid the NBA and media or risk falling into Pete Rose's level of abandonment. He goes and hides in Birmingham for a couple of years, the NBA and media realize they've lost their most marketable commodity and issues a judgment that clears him of any past indiscretions. He hangs up the spikes and laces on a pair of sneakers. It is not the same thing.

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Fair point.

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Seems to me Chowdah is describing a PR stunt on Jordan's part. Proving you're marketable = a PR move.

But either way, the player's viewpoint /=/ the team's viewpoint.

Birmingham wasn't looking for the NBA to clear of past indiscretions and get a nice NBA contract again.

RetiredAg said:

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TheAngelFlight said:

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The fact that he's older is perhaps a reason to move him through the developmental track faster.

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Maybe if he were actually producing. He's not though. He's a .220 hitter who is apparently a defensive liability at Low A. If he were 29 and raking down there, then sure, promote him fast. But he's not.

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They can promote him slow and when he's producing at age 30 or 31 he'll then go to high A and then at 32 or whatever he can go try it at AA and then hope at 33 or 34 he's starting to look like an MLB ballplayer or they can, since he has marginally promotion-deserving stats (younger guys in the off-season and next year will get promoted with similar stats***) you can move him to a marginally better league now and see if can rise to the challenge.

***And some will move up with worse

TXAggie2011 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Quote:

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I don't think it was a PR stunt for Jordan. Jordan needed to avoid the NBA and media or risk falling into Pete Rose's level of abandonment. He goes and hides in Birmingham for a couple of years, the NBA and media realize they've lost their most marketable commodity and issues a judgment that clears him of any past indiscretions. He hangs up the spikes and laces on a pair of sneakers. It is not the same thing.

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Fair point.

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Seems to me Chowdah is describing a PR stunt on Jordan's part. Proving you're marketable = a PR move.

But either way, the player's viewpoint /=/ the team's viewpoint.

Birmingham wasn't looking for the NBA to clear of past indiscretions and get a nice NBA contract again.

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Not at all. Jordan had a gambling issue that may (or may not) have caused his dad to get murdered. There was significant speculation that Jordan may have been betting on NBA/Bulls games.

It's not a mere coincidence that Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Bulls and the White Sox, whose minor league affiliate is the Birmingham Barons.

And you continue to describe a situation where a guy went to play baseball for reasons that don't include having a career in baseball.

Doing something to affect and protect your image and ability to prove your marketability to some other employer and all that = public relations.

I guess I am just hung up on the word "stunt" to describe it.

I recall back then how widely it was considered to be a joke, yet nobody was accused of hating Jordan when they criticized his skills, or lack thereof. And I'd argue that his hitting .202 at AA ball is more impressive than .220 at Low A.

I just don't see anything statistically that would support a promotion. I have never seen a positive scouting report on his "talents". This has PR move written all over it. And fine, the Mets want to sell tickets and merchandise. But let's not kid ourselves about what this is.

RetiredAg said:

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I recall back then how widely it was considered to be a joke, yet nobody was accused of hating Jordan when they criticized his skills, or lack thereof. And I'd argue that his hitting .202 at AA ball is more impressive than .220 at Low A.

I just don't see anything statistically that would support a promotion. I have never seen a positive scouting report on his "talents". This has PR move written all over it. And fine, the Mets want to sell tickets and merchandise. But let's not kid ourselves about what this is.

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By all means, continue to make this argument to those who have argued this thread about hating Tebow or have denied the PR tie-in to this whole story. But you don't have to make it to me.

The scouting reports are his bat-speed has improved, his swing rates have improved, etc.

BMX Bandit said:

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Lots of anger among the heathens tonight.

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As funny as it is, Tebow is the kind of athlete that is going to baffle us and find a weird way to hit .220-.250 at any level of the minors, regardless of how he performed one level down.

Just like in the NFL, somehow he just won games. He'll never be in the MLB, but I'm betting next season sees him at AA hitting the same level somehow.

BMX Bandit said:

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Lots of anger among the heathens tonight.

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The silence is deafening from the doesn't deserve a promotion camp.

He will be a September call up you can take that to the bank.

Well, I think everyone has to give him at least one thing...

He sure isn't one to sit there in the batter's box and watch his ball leave the park.

Agnzona said:

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He will be a September call up you can take that to the bank.

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Will Tebow receive a plate appearance in Double-A?
YES +400 (4/1)
NO -600 (1/6)

Will Tebow receive a plate appearance in Triple-A?
YES +1000 (10/1)
-NO -2500 (1/25)

Will Tebow receive a plate appearance in MLB?
YES +1500 (15/1)
NO -5000 (1/50)