I'm on board with TXAggie2011 here. Not going to argue his entire baseball career has been a PR "stunt", but I think as soon as the Mets signed him, they had to figure he would be placed on the fast track, mostly because of his age.

Had he come in and hit below .200 or had just been completely awful compared to his peers, I could buy his promotion as a PR stunt. But Tebow has been somewhat serviceable, especially for a guy his age picking up a bat and glove for the first time in a decade. As for his peers, they all have been playing this game since they were probably 8 years old.

So yea, I don't really care if he "deserved" a promotion, especially compared to his peers. He's on a different track due to his age and inexperience. If he's getting "better" with such things as bat speed and what not, then I think it's somewhat logical to see what an almost 30 year old can do at the next level.

It's similar to the 35 year old pitcher the Rays signed back in '99 who started at AA. PR stunt, maybe, but you can't stash a 30 something year old in rooke/single A ball for long.

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He'll never be in the MLB, but I'm betting next season sees him at AA hitting the same level somehow.

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I fully expect him to be in the MLB this season. He'll get the September call up and it will be a media circus.

Show me one person on this thread that said he can't hit home runs.

The guy is 6'3" and 240 lbs, physically fit, an athlete and strong. If he makes solid contact, its going to go a long way. Nobody on this thread has argued against that.

The average MLB player is around 190 lbs. The players are even smaller than that in lower minors (A and AA).

Have you ever been to a minor league game at AA or lower? Most of the players are lean. There are a few that might be considered husky but not many. And why might that be? Because most of them haven't finished growing yet. So, yeah, Tebow is going to have a considerable size advantage over the majority of the 22 year olds he's playing against.

Hanley Ramirez has packed on about 25 lbs of muscle mass since his days in AA ball. Years of professional conditioning, diets and natural growth (assuming he's not juiced) will do that between the ages of 19 - 30.

I honestly think that you believe that the people on here don't like Tebow personally and are rooting for him to fail because they dislike him personally. Do you feel that way? Because, I've not seen ANY evidence of that.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Hanley Ramirez has packed on about 25 lbs of muscle mass since his days in AA ball. Years of professional conditioning, diets and natural growth (assuming he's not juiced) will do that between the ages of 19 - 30.

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And Hanley Ramirez hit 7 home runs in 67 games as an 18 year old in first season in the minor leagues.

The reality, in my view, is St. Lucie and the rest of the minor leagues are full of guys in their mid-20s who have been in the minor leagues for several years and simply aren't going to end up but with about 4 or 5 home runs all year.

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The guy is 6'3" and 240 lbs, physically fit, an athlete and strong. If he makes solid contact, its going to go a long way. Nobody on this thread has argued against that.

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Well, up to this point you've been maintaining he's the Kim Kardashian of sports, he's not famous because of any athletic achievement, that he's not remotely talented enough for the level he's playing at, that the guys he's playing with are "10 times" more talented than him.

That he's an athletic freak whose power could "go a long way" is quite a different tune.

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Ding

I compare him to Kim Kardashian because like her, he's famous for being famous. He was a starter in the NFL for 1 season and yet, 7 years later he's still in the limelight.

Kim Kardashian appeared in one video and she is still in the limelight because fame follows her. Fame follows Tebow in the same way.

His one season in the NFL or his Heisman trophies aren't why he's in the minors. His fame is why.

And I never said that he wasn't athletic. I said that without his fame, he wouldn't be a baseball player. That isn't the same thing.

And before people bring on the Heisman, the Heisman isn't a measure of baseball skills. Without looking it up, who won the Heisman in 2009? 2010? 2007?

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That he's an athletic freak whose power could "go a long way" is quite a different tune.

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I never called him an athletic freak either.

I'm not up for repeating this discussion; I'll just say again no one gives a damn about any other aspect of Tim Tebow if he doesn't win the Heisman, two national championships, and broke all sorts of records along the way. No one. He's otherwise just some weirdo from Florida trying to sell you a used car.

2007 was Tebow. 2010 was probably Newton. 2009 Bradord? Ingram? Might not know the years every time but folks know the names. Winning a Heisman matters.

Andre Ware, Chris Weinke, Ty Detmer...yeah, you know those names, I'm sure of it.

Now quick, give me the name of the quarterback who replaced both Weinke in Carolina and Detmer in Philadelphia during a 14 year career with 45 wins as a starter?

Weinke and and Detmer played a total 11 years and won 13 games.

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Lots of anger among the heathens tonight.

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The silence is deafening from the doesn't deserve a promotion camp.

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Yeah, completely insane to think a 30 yr old defensive liability that hits .220 in Low A ball was unworthy of a promotion.

He's had a really good first week at St Lucie. Congrats to him. Hope, for him, that it continues. You seem to be under the impression that we think he shouldn't have been promoted based on anything but his performance on the field.

Bassmaster said:

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He's not famous for being famous. He's famous because he was a great collegiate football player and widely considered one of the greatest of all time. Oh, and also, he is outspoken about his faith, and while that irritates many people, there are others that respect him for it. I'm glad he got promoted and I hope he does make it up to the majors.

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You know people can respect him for his faith while also believing he hasn't done anything to justify a promotion, right?

Going to see Port St. Lucie play on the 25th while out that way. I'll report back on Tebow's ankles.

If you believe Pete Rose a good hitters average will increase as the pitching gets better through the system. Don't know if true but single A is full of 90 plus pitchers who can't hit a strike zone for crap.

Tim Tebow vs. Michael Jordan: Who Is the Better Baseball Player?

Very interesting piece by scouts who saw both play.

They had some positives about them:

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"He's actually swinging the bat a lot better," said a National League scout who saw him earlier this season in the South Atlantic League and then again this week after his promotion to the high-A Florida State League. "And he's playing better defense. He's more aggressive, more confident.

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"Every time we played Birmingham with Jordan, we saw more kids at the ballpark," said Dave Trembley, who managed the Orlando Cubs in the Southern League in 1994. "I've heard it's like that with Tebow, too. They've really given baseball a shot in the arm as far as attracting people. That's what Jordan did, and that's what Tebow is doing.

"These guys do more for the game than you read in the box score. The game is indebted to them."

Scouts who have watched Tebow come back raving about the way he treats the fans and the way he treats his teammates. For the most part, they also come away unimpressed with his baseball skills.

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Tebow isn't the athlete Jordan was, but he does have the drive of a player who reached the top level of the sport he first pursued.

"The one thing you can't put a number on is determination," said another National League scout who saw both Jordan and Tebow. "Don't count him out. If Michael had kept playing, I wouldn't have counted him out, either."

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Not a surprise that he's a great teammate and great w/ the fans. I think they also have a valid point about what they (Jordan/Tebow) bring to the game just by who they are.

Then they had some less than positive things:

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"Saying that, he's not close to being a prospect."

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"Neither of them could deal with breaking balls," said the NL scout, who saw both play in the minor leagues. "They're a mystery to them."

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Jordan's swing was too long, said scouts who saw him play. Tebow's swing is too stiff, too mechanical.

"It's not the swing you see with a guy who is going to hit," the scout said.

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"He works hard, but he's really stiff," one said. "The worst outfielder I've ever seen. He was diving for balls that fell 20 feet from where he started."

"One ball almost hit him in the head in the outfield," another said.

He doesn't run well ("Takes the smallest steps when he strides," said one scout). He doesn't throw well ("The shortstop goes way out in the outfield to get the relay," said another). He can hit a fastball (he homered off a 96 mph fastball, according to one scout), but even his power might be exaggerated ("I watched all of batting practice one day, and he didn't get a ball out of the park," the first scout said).

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I was just a young teenager when Jordan was in Birmingham, and without the internet (don't think our house had it back then), it was harder to follow him. I don't recall much, so I was surprised by their comments on Jordan:

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In other parts of the game, scouts who saw both play say Jordan was easily better. He was a better runner and a better outfielder. And he was such a good athlete that some believe he would have succeeded if he'd gone to baseball earlier.

"Michael was fluid, agile, one of the best athletes of all time," the AL scout said. "Tebow, on the other hand, is stiff. It's not fluid. I think if Michael had tried to do it earlier, he could have been a big leaguer. Michael was one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Tebow was not one of the greatest football players."

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Sounds a lot like his NFL scouting reports.

Great leader, great teammate, has all the intangibles, but lacks the skill to be a successful player.

It's the baseball equivalent of "uhhh well, she's got a great personality".

Ag_07 said:

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Sounds a lot like his NFL scouting reports.

Great leader, great teammate, has all the intangibles, but lacks the skill to be a successful player.

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Yet the guy won a NFL playoff game.

Absolutely, but the poster that I was responding to compared him to a Kardashian and said he's never done anything and is "famous for being famous." Anyone who makes such a statement is not being objective and my assumption is that they are just piling on like all of the other Tebow haters because of his faith. I think that's a safe assumption.

Bassmaster said:

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Absolutely, but the poster that I was responding to compared him to a Kardashian and said he's never done anything and is "famous for being famous." Anyone who makes such a statement is not being objective and my assumption is that they are just piling on like all of the other Tebow haters because of his faith. I think that's a safe assumption.

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I don't give two craps about his faith. The people who care about his faith (one way or the other) are why he's still famous. How many root for him because of his faith and not what he's achieved on the field in the last 7 years?

I think I've said at least two times on this thread that I believe he is a very decent person. If his decency comes from his faith, great. I am not a person of faith, and, I hope most would think of me as a decent and generous person. So I don't think those qualities correlate as you can also find many who claim faith who are anything but decent. His behavior with his fans and children comes from the heart and I absolutely believe that he is NOT faking it. I don't take that away from the man. He's earned that. And if that isn't objectivity, you and I just have a different view of what being objective means.

Lastly, I didn't say he never did anything. I said that he hasn't done anything in 7 years to warrant the fame that continues to follow him around.

If you want to make an argument. Keep it honest. Don't twist words to fit your narrative.

The assumption on faith is fair game, as I never disqualified that angle. Faith is not how I generally identify people.

"hasn't done anything in 7 years to warrant the fame that continues to follow him around"

Great job as a football analyst
Foundation that gives away millions and touches the most in need
Author
Motivational speaker


And hitting .333 for Port St. Lucie

You should probably just stop.

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"hasn't done anything in 7 years to warrant the fame that continues to follow him around"

Great job as a football analyst
Foundation that gives away millions and touches the most in need
Author
Motivational speaker

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Are these the source of his fame or because of his fame? And the 7 years is ON THE FIELD. His fame continues OFF THE FIELD. So you are proving my point actually. Thanks.

You forgot he's hitting .333 and knocking in RBI's in Port St. Lucie

I haven't. I just don't judge a player by a sample size of 2 weeks.

BMX Bandit said:

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Say Chowdah said:

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I haven't. I just don't judge a player by a sample size of 2 weeks.

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Except when you did just that on your first post on this thread.

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No. That was a comment on why he was invited to spring training to begin with. He wasn't there due to his ball playing skills.

Build It said:

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Tebow extends his streak to 7 games tonight while leading the team in batting average.

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You realize that nobody here is actually rooting against the guy, right? Just because we agree with all the scouts about his skill set (or lack thereof), or that we see this is more about PR than anything, doesn't mean we want the guy to fail.

Congrats to him for a good 11 games in High A. Hope he succeeds, but his lack of baseball skills will definitely set a much lower ceiling on what "success" looks like.

RetiredAg said:

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Build It said:

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Tebow extends his streak to 7 games tonight while leading the team in batting average.

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You realize that nobody here is actually rooting against the guy, right? Just because we agree with all the scouts about his skill set (or lack thereof), or that we see this is more about PR than anything, doesn't mean we want the guy to fail.

Congrats to him for a good 11 games in High A. Hope he succeeds, but his lack of baseball skills will definitely set a much lower ceiling on what "success" looks like.

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My bull**** meter just redlined.

_lefraud_ said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Sounds a lot like his NFL scouting reports.

Great leader, great teammate, has all the intangibles, but lacks the skill to be a successful player.

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Yet the guy won a NFL playoff game.

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going slightly off topic...this is why I shake my head when the pundits go on and on about the greatness of Dick LeBeau. Denver was running a junior high offense (and that's being kind). He can't lose that game

Well, the fact that that Denver team with its junior high offense was in a playoff game perhaps suggests it wasn't the easiest thing to beat.

Dick Lebeau was an innovator and formed the basis for many great defenses. He deserves the credit he gets.

iBrad said:

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Tebow with the walk off bomb to extend his hit streak to 11 games. He's batting .327 since being called up. Not bad for a publicity stunt.

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Awesome