Astros/Rangers Discussion - NO MODS ALLOWED

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DallasAg 94
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In reply to South Platte • 11:15a, 4/23/24
I think Matt Harrison would likely be a better comparison.

I think most Rangers look at deGrom's situation more similar to McC's from a health perspective. Having said that, deGrom has 2 CyYoungs and has pitched over 140 IP in a season six times. LMJ has done it once.

In 9 seasons with MLB, LMJ has "Qualified" (Reached 1IP/G= 162 IP) only once. Barely. 162.1IP.

But, now that he is 30...almost 31... he'll remain healthy.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to South Platte • 11:26a, 4/23/24
AG
South Platte said:
The Porkchop Express said:
South Platte said:
It cracks me up when I hear Astros fans talk about McCullers. Hoping he shows up sounds like the Choo Freeman and Chip Ambres banter.
Reminds me of Rangers fans with Josh Hamilton from 2015-2017. He was always about to turn things around.
How many all star appearances and league MVP's does LM have? The fact is LM isn't even a great player when healthy. He's pretty good in the HEB commercials though.
He's got 2 world series rings. Guess that will have to do.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 12:06p, 4/23/24
Mr Gigem has one... maybe we should call up Bochy and CY and see if he can get a GS.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 12:10p, 4/23/24
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
Mr Gigem has one... maybe we should call up Bochy and CY and see if he can get a GS.
So we've established McCullers > Mr Gigem > Josh Hamilton
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Mr Gigem
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 12:11p, 4/23/24
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
Mr Gigem has one... maybe we should call up Bochy and CY and see if he can get a GS.
I'm a SS
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jkag89
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 12:20p, 4/23/24
The Porkchop Express said:
South Platte said:
The Porkchop Express said:
South Platte said:
It cracks me up when I hear Astros fans talk about McCullers. Hoping he shows up sounds like the Choo Freeman and Chip Ambres banter.
Reminds me of Rangers fans with Josh Hamilton from 2015-2017. He was always about to turn things around.
How many all star appearances and league MVP's does LM have? The fact is LM isn't even a great player when healthy. He's pretty good in the HEB commercials though.
He's got 2 world series rings. Guess that will have to do.
Also has an All-Star appearance.

LMJ is one of those "what if" players in Astros history like J.R. Richard and Dickie Thon.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to jkag89 • 12:26p, 4/23/24
Both players I liked.

Wasn't he an AS because he was the lone candidate that was a legit MLB player for the Astros that year?!

4.25 ERA?!

LMJ:AS::MrGigem:MLBSP
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bearkatag15
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 12:33p, 4/23/24
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
Both players I liked.

Wasn't he an AS because he was the lone candidate that was a legit MLB player for the Astros that year?!

4.25 ERA?!

LMJ:AS::MrGigem:MLBSP
You understand that All Star appearances aren't based on the full year right? He had a 2.69 ERA and with a 7-1 W/L record through the first half of that season. That is clearly why he was selected as an AS.

Houston also had 5 other players selected to the AS game that year...
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Farmer1906
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 12:46p, 4/23/24
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
Both players I liked.

Wasn't he an AS because he was the lone candidate that was a legit MLB player for the Astros that year?!

4.25 ERA?!

LMJ:AS::MrGigem:MLBSP
No, he was an All Star because he was really good in the first half.

7-1 with a 2.69 ERA thru June.

Edit: Too slow.
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Farmer1906
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12:50p, 4/23/24
AG
How did I not read this thread sooner? Probably best I missed the bulk of it.

Lance McCullers is a solid 2/3 type when healthy. He's got plus stuff and has the ability to get out of trouble with ground balls.

The last time he was semi-healthy was 2022 when he had a 2.27 ERA over 8 starts.

The same injury that sidelined him in 2021, 2022, and 2023 was finally addressed with surgery and not rehabbed for the millionth time.

He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 12:58p, 4/23/24
DallasAg 94
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:02p, 4/23/24
Farmer1906 said:
He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
You have to have gotten pretty bored with multiple off days to have found this thread.

In fairness, most teams have an IL full of guys like that, just waiting to add them.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 1:09p, 4/23/24
AG
DallasAg 94 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
You have to have gotten pretty bored with multiple off days to have found this thread.

In fairness, most teams have an IL full of guys like that, just waiting to add them.
The Astro's struggle has kept my mind occupied.

He's not close to prime deGromm (then again who is), but my only real point is that he is pretty dang good. I think that saying otherwise is kind of silly.

Lots of injuries all around. Sucks for baseball.
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agproducer
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In reply to Mr Gigem • 1:13p, 4/23/24
AG
Mr Gigem said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Mr Gigem has one... maybe we should call up Bochy and CY and see if he can get a GS.
I'm a SS
I'm I the only one who read this first as "I'm @ss?"

No offense meant toward you, Gigem.
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jkag89
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 1:20p, 4/23/24
DallasAg 94 said:

Wasn't he an AS because he was the lone candidate that was a legit MLB player for the Astros that year?!
In 2017? You take the time to look up LMJ to see what his stats were in his AS year but noticed the year?

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South Platte
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 1:23p, 4/23/24
DallasAg 94 said:
I think Matt Harrison would likely be a better comparison.

I think most Rangers look at deGrom's situation more similar to McC's from a health perspective. Having said that, deGrom has 2 CyYoungs and has pitched over 140 IP in a season six times. LMJ has done it once.

In 9 seasons with MLB, LMJ has "Qualified" (Reached 1IP/G= 162 IP) only once. Barely. 162.1IP.

But, now that he is 30...almost 31... he'll remain healthy.
McCullers is Jeff Zimmerman. He's a genius for making generational wealth off a couple of nice playoff starts.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:24p, 4/23/24
Farmer1906 said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
You have to have gotten pretty bored with multiple off days to have found this thread.

In fairness, most teams have an IL full of guys like that, just waiting to add them.
The Astro's struggle has kept my mind occupied.

He's not close to prime deGromm (then again who is), but my only real point is that he is pretty dang good. I think that saying otherwise is kind of silly.

Lots of injuries all around. Sucks for baseball.
I think he has had some success. The issue is that you can't rely on a guy like that.

I've posted a bunch about Ps. Looking at his 2017, he went 16GS/3.05 in 1st half and 6GS/8.23 in the 2nd.

Pitchers can have huge success in limited fashion. The Rangers like many teams can make the newly called-up phenom look like a CyYoung. And they look great and fall apart. I think LMJ has the stuff to be successful a full season, IF he can remain healthy. The Dodgers had 10 SPs on the 60IL last year, at one time. Rays had similar issues. Kershaw and Glasnow are phenom SPs... but you have to be concerned if they are your projected playoff anchors.

Dunning was phenom early in 2023, then as the wear of the season and teams saw him 2-3 times through the rotation... 2nd and 3rd GS, he suddenly wasn't as good. LMJ has only been "Qualified" once. In 9 seasons.

WAY too many injuries for sure. It makes the management of the game and talent bigger than just accumulating talent.

I've said for years that you need two different rotations to win a WS. You need a rotation that can get you to the playoffs. You need a rotation that can win the playoffs.
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Mr Gigem
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In reply to agproducer • 1:25p, 4/23/24
AG
agproducer said:
Mr Gigem said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Mr Gigem has one... maybe we should call up Bochy and CY and see if he can get a GS.
I'm a SS
I'm I the only one who read this first as "I'm @ss?"

No offense meant toward you, Gigem.


That's what I was going for. Surprised it took this board that long to see it
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to jkag89 • 1:26p, 4/23/24
I got my years mixed up. I was supposed to say something about trashcans.

My bad.
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jkag89
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 1:59p, 4/23/24
Quote:
I was supposed to say something about trashcans.
I figured this was the response in which you would pivot. Ranger fans, if nothing else, are quite predictable.
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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 2:06p, 4/23/24
Farmer1906 said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
You have to have gotten pretty bored with multiple off days to have found this thread.

In fairness, most teams have an IL full of guys like that, just waiting to add them.
The Astro's struggle has kept my mind occupied.

He's not close to prime deGromm (then again who is), but my only real point is that he is pretty dang good. I think that saying otherwise is kind of silly.

Lots of injuries all around. Sucks for baseball.
We're not saying McCullers sucks. He's a pretty good little pitcher, but the thing that makes it hilarious is Astro fans always talk about him and bring him up like he's their ace in the hole and that Astros are only fighting us with one hand tied behind their back until the mystical McCullers returns so that he can go back to pitching 8 innings of shutout ball against us on demand like you guys assume he would do.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to jkag89 • 2:25p, 4/23/24
jkag89 said:
Quote:
I was supposed to say something about trashcans.
I figured this was the response in which you would pivot. Ranger fans, if nothing else, are quite predictable.
It was inserted specifically for that. Alerting you that the response was supposed to be that and I read the wrong talking points.

I have an issue with 2017, but it is probably a little different than most. MLB dumped it on the Astros and protected Bos and NYY.

MLB was caught using juiced balls for NYY/Judge.

I've said ideally, I'd like to establish the ALCS having to go through Texas (state not team) every year, if only to piss off the media. The media didn't care to cover our WS Championship because Atlanta, StL, LAD, NYY, and BoSox weren't in it. They said it was the least watched, but that kinda happens when they bury the story.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Grapesoda2525 • 2:41p, 4/23/24
AG
Grapesoda2525 said:
Farmer1906 said:
DallasAg 94 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He's a 30-year-old with a 3.48 career ERA and a boatload of playoff experience. The Astros (and most teams) would kill to add that to their rotation.
You have to have gotten pretty bored with multiple off days to have found this thread.

In fairness, most teams have an IL full of guys like that, just waiting to add them.
The Astro's struggle has kept my mind occupied.

He's not close to prime deGromm (then again who is), but my only real point is that he is pretty dang good. I think that saying otherwise is kind of silly.

Lots of injuries all around. Sucks for baseball.
We're not saying McCullers sucks. He's a pretty good little pitcher, but the thing that makes it hilarious is Astro fans always talk about him and bring him up like he's their ace in the hole and that Astros are only fighting us with one hand tied behind their back until the mystical McCullers returns so that he can go back to pitching 8 innings of shutout ball against us on demand like you guys assume he would do.
If you say so. I think most Astros fans have a fairly low opinion of McCullers due to his lack of health.

The biggest issue (there have been many) with the team is it's not just McCullers. He's one piece of the puzzle. This year it has been Garica, McCullers, Urquidy, Verlander (not anymore), and now add Valdez & Javier. That is a legit 6 man rotation. That is the rotation that won 106 games and a WS 2 seasons ago.



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tjack16
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 2:46p, 4/23/24
AG
I love McCullers but at this point he's just not dependable to be on the field. Like DeGrom, Anthony Rendon or Giancarlo Stanton. Great talents and all star caliber when healthy… but hardly ever healthy.

If we get a fully healthy 2025 season from Lance I'll be over the moon. He can be downright nasty when healthy.

2016: missed half season
2019: missed full season
2021: missed ALCS and WS
2022: missed first 2/3 of season
2023: missed full season
2024: will miss half season - 2/3 season

That's not including the random 15 Day IL stints

Most starts he has made in a season is 28 (2021) and 22 (2017 and 2018)
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to tjack16 • 2:53p, 4/23/24
NYM on deGrom - Dude is going to get hurt.
Tex after signing deGrom - Yeah, we kinda expected that.

Rendon on Rendon - Baseball isn't a priority. Heads to IL for Oblique

NYY GM on Stanton - He is going to be on the IL in 2024. That's just what he does.
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Farmer1906
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3:12p, 4/23/24
AG
One guy who has lived on the IL for the last few years after being a workhorse is Chris Sale. He's made 4 starts, averaging 6+ IP, and looked solid. ERA is nothing to write home about but the underlying stuff looks excellent. If he can come back (TBD) then there is hope for others.
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jkag89
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 3:22p, 4/23/24
DallasAg 94 said:
jkag89 said:
Quote:
I was supposed to say something about trashcans.
I figured this was the response in which you would pivot. Ranger fans, if nothing else, are quite predictable.
It was inserted specifically for that. Alerting you that the response was supposed to be that and I read the wrong talking points.
Or you could have simply said, oops I mixed up my seasons and left it at that. But no. . .
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jkag89
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 3:32p, 4/23/24
Quote:
If you say so. I think most Astros fans have a fairly low opinion of McCullers due to his lack of health.
I think most Astros fans love LMJ. Most Astros fans also know he is not going to be the team's savior this season, as implied by Grape, and is unlikely to be a mainstay in the rotation any time soon or possibly ever. Many still hope he can contribute by eating some innings or maybe even pull a rabbit out of his hat every once in a while throw a game like the old Lance when the club might really need a boost.
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South Platte
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3:42p, 4/23/24
This really makes guys like Marcus Semien, Jack Morris (started 23+ games for 16 straight seasons), even Altuve, total badasses. Good for those guys to gut it out every game/every 5th game.

Clemens had 20 straight seasons with at least 23 starts. Steroids? Come on. Vote him in.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to South Platte • 3:49p, 4/23/24
AG
South Platte said:
This really makes guys like Marcus Semien, Jack Morris (started 23+ games for 16 straight seasons), even Altuve, total badasses. Good for those guys to gut it out every game/every 5th game.

Clemens had 20 straight seasons with at least 23 starts. Steroids? Come on. Vote him in.


Altuve garners inclusion in the rare air of Marcus semien
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Mathguy64
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 4:28p, 4/23/24
AG
Beats the odor of Odor.
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tjack16
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 4:29p, 4/23/24
AG
Mathguy64 said:
Beats the odor of Odor.


Nah I was told Odor was better than Altuve by some of our Ranger brethren
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 4:36p, 4/23/24
AG
The Porkchop Express said:
South Platte said:
This really makes guys like Marcus Semien, Jack Morris (started 23+ games for 16 straight seasons), even Altuve, total badasses. Good for those guys to gut it out every game/every 5th game.

Clemens had 20 straight seasons with at least 23 starts. Steroids? Come on. Vote him in.


Altuve garners inclusion in the rare air of Marcus semien
Yeah, you're probably right. He shouldn't have included Altuve when it comes to durability. Semien has missed 4 games since 2018 while Altuve has missed 172. They're in different categories when it comes to that.
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DallasAg 94
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In reply to tjack16 • 5:07p, 4/23/24
tjack16 said:
Mathguy64 said:
Beats the odor of Odor.


Nah I was told Odor was better than Altuve by some of our Ranger brethren


Stats... Odor was certainly on his way...

Through age 25 season:
Odor: 820 G, 414 R, 726 H, 142 2B, 26 3B, 136 HR, 428 RBI, _62 SB, 48 CS, .240 BA, .293 OBP, .733 OPS
Altuve: 668 G, 341 R, 830 H, 162 2B, 14 3B, _36 HR, 226 RBI, 169 SB, 49 CS, .305 BA, .343 OBP, .758 OPS

The Rangers then implemented the 3-Outcome model... Odor fell in love with the HR and SO and probably a lot of other things.

He is 36HRs behind Altuve for their careers and at 30... Odor is 4 years younger. He was on pace to be Top10 All-Time in HRs by a 2B. BUT... you've gotta play the games to get there and he chose a different path after he got paid.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to DallasAg 94 • 5:09p, 4/23/24
AG
It's been 8 years and you're still not over this. One is about to be a HOFer. One is about to be forgotten.
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