FYI my info on my last post is for conventional. It is rare for FHA to drop it. Assume they wont. VA has no PMI

Maybe the FNMA 5 year thing was what I was sticking on in my brain.

Thanks

We just had ours removed without an appraisal, for the record.

It would've been close to 20% equity with an appraisal, and the lender waived the appraisal and removed PMI.

It's possible that you either don't have a FNMA or FHLMC (unlikely) or given the current circumstances they're being more lax on the appraisal requirement. Standard is to require the appraisal.

I'm getting 3% on a 30 year note and my out of pocket costs will be a couple hundred dollars. I always refinance with negative points so I recoup my out of pocket costs in a couple of months.

hph6203 said:

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It's possible that you either don't have a FNMA or FHLMC (unlikely) or given the current circumstances they're being more lax on the appraisal requirement. Standard is to require the appraisal.

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Gotcha, thanks. I know they were able to waive it, don't know the exact details.

fig96 said:

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hph6203 said:

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It's possible that you either don't have a FNMA or FHLMC (unlikely) or given the current circumstances they're being more lax on the appraisal requirement. Standard is to require the appraisal.

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Gotcha, thanks. I know they were able to waive it, don't know the exact details.

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Congrats! It's always nice to avoid the cost of an appraisal, whether it be a person or an algorithm who decided to do so.

And for the mortgage experts on here, what is your opinion of the objectivity of appraisers? With the ~ 30 mortgages I've applied for, their 3 or so (?) methods are usually closely bunched together, suspiciously around the purchase price. I think only one of my offers "didn't appraise", and it wasn't far off. The lender or realtor then simply says "it appraised". They used to give you a hard time when you asked for a copy of the appraisal - not so much recently.

I've always assumed the appraisal is mainly for someone to get "eyes on" the subject property, and catch anything egregious that might impact the value, and once they find out there are no red flags, it seems the lender has no incentive to nickel-and-dime the loan amount, and make everyone unhappy and potentially kill the deal.

Thoughts?

Never pay points unless you are going to stay in the home 7-8 years and really longer. 30's are 5.5 years just to break even. So it a very long play. Last home you will ever buy? Sure. First timer no way.

SteveBott said:

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Never pay points unless you are going to stay in the home 7-8 years and really longer. 30's are 5.5 years just to break even. So it a very long play. Last home you will ever buy? Sure. First timer no way.

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Steve - I have always agreed with this, but yet some portion of people still pay points "to get a better rate". Do you have some customers that insist on this? Back in the days of rising rates when mortgages were assumable, I could see sellers wanting to help promote their lower rate as a way to sell the house (with a below-market assumable loan), but that hasn't really applied for years.

Your scenario is moot. You have to qualify even if want to assume which you don't with current rates. So I've not charged discount points in years unless it an investment property. You almost have to on those. But 25% down and I can get you a not points deal on those too. Just up the rate to cover the Fannie points

Don't know about the ethics of the appraiser and the methods they use to determine valuation (I understand the process, not so much the transparency on their end of what valuation is needed, my assumption was that it was a blind sales price but that may not be the case based upon posts on this forum).

What I will say is that if a mortgage company gives you a hard time about giving you an appraisal they're in violation of their requirements. You have to get the appraisal at least 4 days before your closing date on all transactions. Shouldn't happen anymore.

hph6203 said:

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Don't know about the ethics of the appraiser and the methods they use to determine valuation (I understand the process, not so much the transparency on their end of what valuation is needed, my assumption was that it was a blind sales price but that may not be the case based upon posts on this forum).

What I will say is that if a mortgage company gives you a hard time about giving you an appraisal they're in violation of their requirements. You have to get the appraisal at least 4 days before your closing date on all transactions. Shouldn't happen anymore.

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Agree on getting copies of the appraisals - hasn't happened in quite a few years. The industry has enacted some good consumer protection improvements.

I have no idea on this, but my guess on appraisers independence (blind of sales price) is that it isn't really suspicious, but that a good appraiser probably looks at asking prices for homes currently offered in the area (and they probably come across the subject property). That data can't help but seep into their analysis, at least as a reality check for them.

It's available to anyone. The game is there isn't any points, but boy their loan origination costs sure look like they're paying for it.

The credit union I'm using says they'll honor the 2% rate when you apply no matter how long it takes them to get to it.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Anyone want to share what their closing costs are for refinancing? One guy I'm talking to is estimating closing costs to be 7k which includes them wanting 3.1k to be the loan originator. Rates are 2.0% on 15 year, 2.8% on 30 year.

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mine is finalizing around $6500, but that is before the $5k lender credit, so about $1500. That is for 26 year, 2.7%.

That is not including prepaids (escrow, interest, etc.) strictly the cost of closing.

not sure how some of ya'll are getting large lender credits with what seem to be market rates.

Am I missing something?

third coast.. said:

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7k in closing costs seems a little steep to me though. Hmm

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Its really not 7k 'to close'. They're hiding points in the loan origination fees. Since I don't mind the cheap points, I'll pay the higher than normal fee.

Unless someone on here thinks they can offer 2.0% on a 15 year loan and not play games with the origination fees.

Who is giving a 5k credit back for closing? Thats huge.

Also, I hate title insurance in Texas. And refinancing title insurance costs are even more ridiculous.

Texas Tittle insurance is a scam. It is the only insurance policy in the state not subject to competitive pricing otheR then flood which is federal. It has been shown the pricing would be 30-35% cheaper If subject to free market pricing. We are talking about 100's of millions of consumer dollars wasted on title.

Why? Almost all title companies are owned by lawyers. Our politicians are lawyers. Do the math

Edit: changed isn't to is in my post. Sorry about that

SteveBott said:

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Texas Tittle insurance isn't a scam. It is the only insurance policy in the state not subject to competitive pricing otheR then flood which is federal. It has been shown the pricing would be 30-35% cheaper If subject to free market pricing. We are talking about 100's of millions of consumer dollars wasted on title.

Why? Almost all title companies are owned by lawyers. Our politicians are lawyers. Do the math

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If you need more convincing, the HOA concept was created by lawyers.

Title insurance once had a place. I'm not sure it does anymore. The amount of title claims that hit each year is TINY.

With the modern electronic world in which we live, I think a new model will arise in the not so distant future and adjust how that arena plays the game.

Title insurance still has a purpose in rural areas with low turnover of ownership. Not so much in a 20+ year cookie cutter subdivision

Spot on

And In general, people do it too infrequently for it to be a serious reelection campaign platform.

You really need someone who is wealthy enough to fight for it, contribute to reelection campaigns, and wants to actively get involved in the marketplace once it's created.

The only group who has enough money and pull is the Realtor industry. And they don't care what you pay to title.

United Wholesale Mortgage is advertising a 15 year rate of 1.875. I've seen it in the news a couple of times now. Is that a rate a borrower can actually get or just a splashy headline?

Sigh....
That is wholesale to brokers not retail. We have been through this.

Thanks! Thread is 10 pages and admittedly didn't read all of it, but I figured as much.

No way. The sell my company an rate and make a profit. I offer you a rate and I make a commission. I could get to 2.375 maybe. But just for you bud.

There is no Red Cross flag hanging above my desk. I have to pay my bills just like you.

Bust it out yo. It may be time.