30 yr mortgages in the 2s!

78,472 Views | 444 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by chris1515
what say you
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Going to try and make a long story short...

Thursday night of last week I gave the green light for my gal to lock in the rates because she said they had gone down.... I asked her to call me Friday to confirm everything. I get zero contact until today and it's a bunch of stuff to sign with a higher rate (3.375 on a 30 yr fixed).

I'm pretty aggravated especially after seeing some of the rates you guys got.

I already had a 4% (bought 2.5 yrs ago).

My questions..... am I on the hook for anything (I haven't signed anything official)? If 2.875 is attainable can we go back to the drawing board and get this rate instead?
planoaggie123
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AG
Not sure what the market is exactly right now but your rate seems a tad higher than everything else on this board. Maybe unfortunate timing. Several of 2.875. I am finalizing mine on Friday at 3.00. No points bought on mine and dont believe anyone else has either.

I would definitely ask around and not sign any paperwork.
Endo Ag
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AG
Closing tomorrow on sub-jumbo refi. 15 yr fixed @ 2.625%. No points. No appraisal. Total fees just under 3k. (North Carolina)
hph6203
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You are not legally obligated to that loan in anyway. If you didn't have to pay a lock fee or haven't paid for/had an appraisal done yet then you're out nothing if you find a better rate elsewhere. Shop around, you want to do all your rate shopping within a two week window to mitigate the number of inquiries.

The next lender is just going to ask you to validate you didn't acquire a loan from this current lender if they've already run your credit.
AgEng06
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Rates have been higher this week that the past few, that's part of what you're seeing. If she had locked you last week it would have been better.
what say you
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Thanks so much.... I will definitely shop around.
62strat
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SteveBott said:

Let's do mortgage math. 140k balance

3.125 4375 interest per year
2.625 3675 interest per year
700 per year savings
Closing costs 4700 or so
6.7 year break even. Way too long for a refi.

My math is simple but you get the point
I just got a quote from someone for a ~$300k loan and closing costs were estimated at $2k. $4700 seems high.
SteveBott
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Just estimated without all the details.
78669AG
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Refinanced 2.8% 30 year no buy down. Our 2nd refi in less than two years. Our rule of thumb is .5% decrease is worth the investment
If you can't handle the stress, log off until August. If you can handle the stress, be supportive and donate to United. No more buildings and concrete. Gotta channel funds to the collective for now.
78669AG
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what say you said:

Going to try and make a long story short...

Thursday night of last week I gave the green light for my gal to lock in the rates because she said they had gone down.... I asked her to call me Friday to confirm everything. I get zero contact until today and it's a bunch of stuff to sign with a higher rate (3.375 on a 30 yr fixed).

I'm pretty aggravated especially after seeing some of the rates you guys got.

I already had a 4% (bought 2.5 yrs ago).

My questions..... am I on the hook for anything (I haven't signed anything official)? If 2.875 is attainable can we go back to the drawing board and get this rate instead?


A lot of ppl are giving high refi rates because they are so tied up in new mortgages at the moment that they are giving ****ty refi rates so they dont have to do them. Everyone is trying to buy a home
If you can't handle the stress, log off until August. If you can handle the stress, be supportive and donate to United. No more buildings and concrete. Gotta channel funds to the collective for now.
SteveBott
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Not really true with mine but they are really stretching turn times so I am locking 60 days at slightly worse then 30-45. They are prioritizing purchases which they should. They have deadlines and all hell breaks loose if you go past closing date. Nobody is happy
AGGIE WH08P
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78669AG said:

Refinanced 2.8% 30 year no buy down. Our 2nd refi in less than two years. Our rule of thumb is .5% decrease is worth the investment


Mind sharing who you used??
JH06
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I think rates have gone back up a little bit, but if you want a no BS transaction and rate offer shoot Tom Sawyer an email. Feel free to tell him Josh sent you but honestly it wont change the way he takes care of you. He is a no BS type of guy and will find you the best rate out there, I know at least a few people on here have used him and might chime in on their experience.

TSawyer@wbm.com

Oh and just for the record, I have zero business and zero little personal affiliation with Tom other than I have used him multiple times. I keep mentioning him because he really is that good.
fooz
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Closing on ours today, 3% for 30, no points.
78669AG
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Just asked the wife....I'll send it here in a bit
If you can't handle the stress, log off until August. If you can handle the stress, be supportive and donate to United. No more buildings and concrete. Gotta channel funds to the collective for now.
coolerguy12
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AGGIE WH08P said:

cooler guy and Nobody....

mind sharing who y'all used? I'm wanting to reach out to a few others like hph mentioned.


Tom Sawyer as recommended on this board.

Tsawyer@wbm.com
78669AG
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AGGIE WH08P said:

78669AG said:

Refinanced 2.8% 30 year no buy down. Our 2nd refi in less than two years. Our rule of thumb is .5% decrease is worth the investment


Mind sharing who you used??



Mathew@rodsanmortgage.com
If you can't handle the stress, log off until August. If you can handle the stress, be supportive and donate to United. No more buildings and concrete. Gotta channel funds to the collective for now.
Ducks4brkfast
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what say you said:

Going to try and make a long story short...

Thursday night of last week I gave the green light for my gal to lock in the rates because she said they had gone down.... I asked her to call me Friday to confirm everything. I get zero contact until today and it's a bunch of stuff to sign with a higher rate (3.375 on a 30 yr fixed).

I'm pretty aggravated especially after seeing some of the rates you guys got.

I already had a 4% (bought 2.5 yrs ago).

My questions..... am I on the hook for anything (I haven't signed anything official)? If 2.875 is attainable can we go back to the drawing board and get this rate instead?
When she told you rates had gone down and you told her to lock, she didn't tell you and you didn't know what the actual rate was you were locking?
62strat
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Question for lenders; is it common for two lenders to have to pretty different rate quotes?

I'm getting 3% no points from one, 2.69% no points from another.
hph6203
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Yes. Larger operations have better lead in to their business so they can charge higher rates. Smaller operations have to fight for your business on rates rather than marketing. I work at a bigger spot and we're probably .25-.5 higher than the best you can get by shopping and the smaller spots are just going to ultimately sell your loan to a bigger servicer.
SteveBott
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Agreed. It is also about work load and bandwidth. A lender will get aggressive for a week or so then throttle down. I priced at my favorite lender to work with and got 3:25%. Another lender same day 2.875. Needless to say the second lender is about to get 4 loans.
planoaggie123
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Signed all my paperwork today. Easy process. Saving money.
62strat
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I just got offered 2.875% with $1500 in lender credit, which amounts to about $500 of out of pocket cost to save $150 a month.

Sign me up.
agdaddy04
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With which lender?
wichoAggie06
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I looked into this post because I started the process to refinance my house.
Since this is my first time refinancing so you can say I am inexperienced in this process.
Looking at the numbers I got, something does not feel right and I am not sure if I should take the deal.

This is my situation; Currently on my first year of a conventional 30 year loan at 4.25%.
The payoff amount right now is $189,000.00.
My current mortgage payment is $1,600.00 per month.
The mortgage company came back with this offer: 30 year loan fixed at 2.875% BUT the closing costs are $12,436.76. If I roll in the closing costs the new monthly payment will be reduced by $30 dollars only.
I think the closing costs are too high and basically that is what makes me uneasy to take the deal. Even if it is lowering my interest by 1.375%, I still need to pay again the $12,500.00.
I'll get back around $6,000.00 from escrow.


Any input on this is appreciated!!

Ragoo
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Sounds like highway robbery
hph6203
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TLDR: When shopping rates you need to be looking at what the title fees and origination charges are, not the total amount of "stuff" you have to pay at closing, some of those a costs are already baked in to your current loan and it's a like for like out of pocket. You also only want to compare principal, interest and mortgage insurance payments, and back out tax and insurance payments as they're going to be the same.

Longer explanation: Escrows are not closing costs and I would not roll those into the loan. You have the cash in an account on your current loan, why would you want to pay interest on that for 30 years? You're also rolling in a month of escrow payments when you're going to be skipping at least one, if not two payments. Float the cash flow for 30 days if you can, your lender has to refund the balance in that time frame.

Your $1600 payment is not what you use as a basis for comparison, that includes taxes and insurance and any escrow shortage make up. You want to look at the cost of the debt, which is the principal, interest and MI payments (if you have any) on the current loan against the new loan to determine your actual payment reduction.

I'm also guessing that your LTV is going from either 80% on the current loan (No MI) to higher than 80% (MI) or from above 80% LTV to and even higher LTV which puts you in a higher risk category, which means higher MI payments. This is based upon the recency of your purchase, because most people do not put more than 20% down on their house.

Your loan officer isn't doing you any favors by not explaining any of this and just wants to get you out the door happy that you're "saving" $30/mo. Absent all that you're also probably paying points to get to that 2.875 based upon the netted out cost of the loan (12,500 minus 6,000 escrow, minus another 800 for a month of escrow, minus a month of interest for 500 is $5200 which seems outrageous on your loan balance). Maximizing your savings is part of their job if they're worth a damn. I'd tell that person to piss off and find someone that will actually put in the effort to help you, they're making enough off you to do that.

If you can't go out of pocket for your closing costs you're probably not going to be able to see the benefit of refinancing, because between loan balance increases, LTV increases and subsequent MI increases you're going to eat up all your monthly savings. You should see a ~$140/mo drop in your payment given your loan balance and rate reductions, which is worthwhile if you can find a place with fewer fees and can cash flow the up front cost for a month.

3200 in closing costs (which is still probably high) and $140/mo reduction is right where you want to be as far as refinancing.
hph6203
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Just as an aside: If you can't get the funds together to go out of pocket you can go to your current mortgage holder and ask if they do escrow rollovers on their refinances, that takes your out of pocket down by $6000, reduce your fees by 2000 To 3200, you're out of pocket 3700-4200 (interest charges) and will be skipping 1-2 payments or 1600-3200, so a float of 1000-2100, roughly.

You may not get the most premium rate by going with your current mortgage holder, but it probably still makes financial sense if your options are not being able to float the costs to a new lender, refinancing with your current lender, or not refinancing at all.
62strat
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agdaddy04 said:

With which lender?
local Denver guy who did my refi 4 years ago and who happened to be my coworker in O&G in '12-'15 before we both got laid off.

I don't see an issue with funding new escrow by adding to your new loan (assuming it doesn't trigger pmi), since it's under 3%, and using your escrow refund from old loan to throw in the market.

Definitely don't compare 'payment' to payment.. gotta look at principal and interest only. The other components like home insurance, taxes and/or Hoa are unaffected by interest rate.
agdaddy04
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Could you send me his information please? PM if necessary.
hbc07
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Thoughts on this deal that I've currently got lined up with better.com?

Currently 2 years into a 30 year at 4.75% and at about 88% ltv.
Can get a 30 year refi at 3.325% with fees and costs at ~$3,300 but credits of ~$2,200 for a total out of pocket of ~$1,100 (break even in the 5th month).
Would reduce monthly PI by $256.

I've got options other options (3.25% w/ $2,200 oop all the way down to 2.625% w/ $9,000 oop), but would like to keep the break even point shorter since our future in this house isn't set.
62strat
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unless something happened in the last few days, 3.325% with no points doesn't seem that great.

should be <3% based on what I'm reading here and my two offers.
hph6203
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Your inclination to limit recoupment is spot on, but as was said, the rates and pricing you were offered seemed high. Rather than talking to one lender about the different rate offerings, you should be talking to multiple lenders about their par rates (no discount, no credit), and if you do get a low rate you would err on the side of taking a credit rather than paying discount to reduce it. I haven't seen a loan with points paid that I thought was a worthwhile deal in awhile.
62strat
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What is the consensus here on getting a lower rate but having your of pocket closing costs (for arguments sake, call it a 12 month break even period.. example, it's $1800 out of pocket and you save $150 a month) vs. a slightly higher rate (say it only saves you $125 a month), but cash out of pocket at closing is virtually $0?

On one hand, I'm like, hell throw the $2k into the loan, it's such a low rate. On the other, I think, why spend $2k to save ~$20 a month?

When I say out of pocket costs, I mean everything except the reimbursable stuff like taxes,hazard ins, etc. The stuff is truly out of pocket, whether you bring it to closing or roll it into the loan.
Ragoo
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62strat said:

What is the consensus here on getting a lower rate but having your of pocket closing costs (for arguments sake, call it a 12 month break even period.. example, it's $1800 out of pocket and you save $150 a month) vs. a slightly higher rate (say it only saves you $125 a month), but cash out of pocket at closing is virtually $0?

On one hand, I'm like, hell throw the $2k into the loan, it's such a low rate. On the other, I think, why spend $2k to save ~$20 a month?

When I say out of pocket costs, I mean everything except the reimbursable stuff like taxes,hazard ins, etc. The stuff is truly out of pocket, whether you bring it to closing or roll it into the loan.
12 out of 180 months or 360 is a drop in the bucket. If you have the cash And plan on being in the house 2x your payback then I say do it.
 
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