Very exciting.

Sports-Ag said:

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I feel like in recent years, Ags have struggled with lower seeds in the first or second rounds.

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I agree that in recent years it seems the Aggies have not played the lower seeds well. I was hoping this team would be different. They will get run out of the gym by Iowa State if the Aggies play like they played tonight.

I think the committee is justified in not giving us a 1 seed now lol!!

Texagsubscriber said:

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aginlakeway said:

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azhector72 said:

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Yea, we got 4 good calls there at the end

Bummer, hate winning that way

Congrats to Troy to playing their hearts out.

Not making sweet 16 playing like that, no heart

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What makes you think we played with no heart?

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His observation of the game. Why are most of your replies with a question mark?

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They are not. Not even close to most.

Found the rule:

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player's team was in team control and that player or their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.


We were the last to touch the ball. Should have been an easy ruling.

It was in Section 12 of the NCAA 2020-21 womens rulebook.

You missed the key bolded words. We never established control in the front court.

Vepp said:

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Found the rule:

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player's team was in team control and that player or their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.


We were the last to touch the ball. Should have been an easy ruling.

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Where is the location of our game against Iowa St.?

Also, in regards to 'control'.

"Section 8. ControlPlayer, Team Art. 1. A player shall be in control when: a. Holding a live ball; or b. Dribbling a live ball while inbounds."

We dribbled it last in the front court.

Fell free to check my work.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4588-2019-20-and-2020-21-ncaa-womens-basketball-rules-and-interpretations-electronic-versions-updated-sept-1-2020.aspx

Seems correct. Just like when you throw it in from the front court to back court. Possession not established before possessing it in the back court.

When did we dribble it in the front court?

Vepp said:

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Also, in regards to 'control'.

"Section 8. ControlPlayer, Team Art. 1. A player shall be in control when: a. Holding a live ball; or b. Dribbling a live ball while inbounds."

We dribbled it last in the front court.

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She touched it. She did not hold or dribble it.

Gap said:

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Seems correct. Just like when you throw it in from the front court to back court. Possession not established before possessing it in the back court.

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Right. Once the ball is dribbled in the frontcourt we gained 'control' and are no longer allowed to enter the backcourt.

Edit: I'll rewatch and check.

Yeah, I guess the first touch wasn't a dribble. Now I have to get into the definition of a dribble..

txsags said:

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When did we dribble it in the front court?

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We didn't it. She hit it but didn't dribble/control it.

Still ... not 100% that Troy makes the tying basket.

aginlakeway said:

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Vepp said:

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Found the rule:

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player's team was in team control and that player or their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.


We were the last to touch the ball. Should have been an easy ruling.

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There was no control. So not over and back.

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Thank you Gap and aginlakeway - that was my thinking as well. Appreciate your clearing that up for us.

Such a tight call and we are lucky the ref saw it the way he did.

I see touch and then first controlled dribble in the backcourt. So close.

Ignoring the comment, here is the video.

The backcourt violation requires 3 things: team control (i.e. your team is dribbling or passing a live ball), your player is the last to touch it in the front court, your player is the first to touch it in the back court. Except maybe for throw ins (I haven't kept up with womens rules, and there may be an exception for a throw in and/or jump ball), if an airborne player touches the ball, the front/backcourt status is where the player was when she left the court.

For a dribbler going from back to front, all three points (both feet and the ball) must be IN the front court before going into the backcourt would be a violation. And finally, the division line is in the backcourt, not the front court, so touching the line while in the backcourt and then staying further into the backcourt is not a violation like so many think.

OK, thanks to lakeway, I've seen the play. No violation. Here's why:

There is no team control during the throw in. Despite the fact that the Aggies are in their front court, the inbounds pass was not immediately controlled by the player it was passed to. The first dribble was actually in the backcourt -- NOT the front court. However, I can see the question being asked, but I would not rule that (based on the video, and I'm assuming the official on the spot agrees with me) control or a dribble. Just a muffed pass that happened to have "looked" like a dribble. Thus, see my point above about the three points -- the feet may have been in the front court but the ball was in the backcourt, so the status of the player and ball upon FIRST dribble (and control) was backcourt.

The person who made the allegation of the missed call doesn't know the rules. At the very least, they should have made the assertion that the initial bounce was a dribble and thus team control. Since they didn't, I can only assume they don't know the rule but think they do.

I hate to say it, but Aggies have been bad about this sort of thing -- alleging we've been screwed when they just didn't know what the call was or what the rule was (or in some cases, how the rule was enforced/philosophy). In most cases, fans don't care. If they don't win, the officials suck.

We had possession and control when we triggered the in bounds pass. The rules excerpt doesn't clarify if control needs to be established on court.

I can't help but notice that Vic as a 6 seed is up 20+ on a 11 seed toward the end of the 1st half. Once, just once, we could maybe do this.

aginlakeway said:

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Gap said:

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Such a tight call and we are lucky the ref saw it the way he did.

I see touch and then first controlled dribble in the backcourt. So close.

Ignoring the comment, here is the video.

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She never controlled it in front court. The first dribble lands in back court.

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Exactly and we were lucky because she didn't have much choice where she put it down on the dribble and the direction she was heading.

birdman said:

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We had possession and control when we triggered the in bounds pass. The rules excerpt doesn't clarify if control needs to be established on court.

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Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in their backcourt (with any part of their body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player's team was in team control and that player or their teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

Yeah, it does.

birdman said:

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We had possession and control when we triggered the in bounds pass. The rules excerpt doesn't clarify if control needs to be established on court.

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There's no control -- player or team -- during a throw in. Not legally speaking. Obviously, she's holding a ball and according to how one would define control in a dictionary found online or in a library, she's controlling it. But that's not how basketball rules work. The rule says what I said above. The reason is that if there were a foul before the throw in was made, they wouldn't want it to be considered a "team control" foul with no free-throws. Yes, they could write exceptions, but in this case, you'd have many exceptions.

Yall need to practice your reading skills.

I know you can pass into back court.

Let me dumb it down for you. Folks are citing "Aggies never had control with initial dribble in front court, therefore the secondary touches in back court were not a violation".

I'm asking a simple question. Are the Aggies considered in control when they throw it in?

The rules might have a carve out that says "contrary to previous rule, the bounds pass can go into backcourt".