the more I think about it...the more i feel the need to get properly fitted for wedges. so many options. if you can stay in bounds off the tee , the next issue is getting fitted for the proper wedge. Driver, wedge , putter game super important in that order IMO

Chipotlemonger said:

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rgt99 said:

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Short game, short game, short game.

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I think this is wrong wrong wrong. It really is different for every golfer, but for 8/10 or so I would say the tee ball is the most important.

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Yep. Over the last 10 rounds, I've shot 70 twice and 69 once with atrocious putting... I believe I had 35 putts and shot 69. The front nine was 32 (-4) with 4 2-putt birdies (drove two par-4's to 12 and 40 ft) and a 4-foot birdie. I made like 16 feet of putts. On the other hand, I have a 75 and 77 where I hit it terrible (especially driver) where I scrambled and putted well.

One other thought on breaking 90. Get really dang good inside 6 ft putting. I don't struggle to break 90 but for me it seems like my whole game flows back from making short putts. If youre confident on those puts it opens up the rest of the game.

Exactly, All amateurs should give this a listen sometime.

I'm in the same boat as OP. Just want to get good enough right now to not embarrass myself and be able to play with other guys who are much better and not ruin their experience by my poor play.

I'm simply concentrating on getting to the green. If I 3 putt from 15', so be it. What I hate is not being able to get off the tee box in bounds and shanking long irons.

When I approach the ball I make sure I remind myself to focus on grip, ball placement, keep my eye on the ball and get my stomach facing my target on my follow through.

1) Keep your chest over the ball and Head down through the swing
2) DON'T be tentative around the greens-- swing with confidence and let the club do the work. Don't be afraid that you might put "too much" juice on your swing that it makes you blade/duff your chips/pitches.

that was a good listen. My philosophy growing up and playing jr. golf was to shave strokes around the green.I was never a long hitter, and knew i could never out drive my opponent. The only way I could stay in competition was to beat them around the green. If my drive was not working that day, i knew i could pipe a three wood or even a three iron down the middle, but just as long as I could get around the green I could make it work. So i understand the importance of accuracy, and yes it is extremely important to be accurate off the tee. But for me, the way I looked at it was, a missed three to four foot putt counts the same as a 260 yard drive. My father and I would focus our practice from 100 yd, 75 yd, 50 yd, 25 yds, around the green and spent countless hours around the putting green, and that is how I was able to improve my score. It is what I still focus on the most to this day.


Congrats to Goodbull_19 on breaking 100, you will start to see that breaking 100 will be easier and will be an afterthought as you start focusing breaking 90.

Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

mazag08 said:

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Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

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Do you have stats to back this up?

powerbelly said:

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mazag08 said:

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Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

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Do you have stats to back this up?

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Considering the person trying to break 100 is usually wildly erratic, doesn't successfully contact the ball consistently, and likely doesn't hit it very far.. maybe the bulk of their times does need to be spend getting their swing to a point where contact is consistent and the result is at least straighter more often.

But once you reach that point, trying to further perfect your swing is only going to save you marginal strokes when you are likely 3 putting fairly often, cant routinely get out of a bunker, cant consistently hit your chips to within 10 feet, and might not even be able to successfully hit the green from 40-75 yards out.

My percentages might be off, but but the general message is not. If you are good at putting but bad at driving, you will save more than you lose. If you are good at chipping and sand but bad at driving, you will save more than you lose. If you are good at driving but cant get on the green or get in the hole, you will lose more than save. You have multiple options off the tee if you cant drive. Fairway woods, hybrids, irons, etc. Almost anyone can find a club on a given day that will get them in the fairway and get the hole started. But once you get near the green, it's all about getting it in the hole. And until you can do that in that in the lowest amount of strokes possible, you are wasting time with everything else.

NColoradoAG said:

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mazag08 said:

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Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

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I still don't agree with this opinion that keeps popping up. If you are hitting three from the tee box 3-4 times a round, and hitting another 3-4 in the hazard or unplayable another 3-4 holes that's 8 shots a round. I would contend it is A LOT easier to straighten that part of the game out than get to putting consistency you mention. Those numbers look like the putting numbers of a scratch golfer.

After you are keeping your ball in play I would definitely put chipping as the next part of the way to pick up quick strokes.

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You're not wrong. But for someone shooting over 100, fixing their long game is going to remove those strokes is going to take a lot more time and effort than if they focused the same time getting better at reading greens, putting, chipping, and proper sand technique. My outlook is more about "where is your small amount of practice time best spent to remove the most strokes?"

mazag08 said:

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NColoradoAG said:

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mazag08 said:

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Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

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I still don't agree with this opinion that keeps popping up. If you are hitting three from the tee box 3-4 times a round, and hitting another 3-4 in the hazard or unplayable another 3-4 holes that's 8 shots a round. I would contend it is A LOT easier to straighten that part of the game out than get to putting consistency you mention. Those numbers look like the putting numbers of a scratch golfer.

After you are keeping your ball in play I would definitely put chipping as the next part of the way to pick up quick strokes.

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You're not wrong. But for someone shooting over 100, fixing their long game is going to remove those strokes is going to take a lot more time and effort than if they focused the same time getting better at reading greens, putting, chipping, and proper sand technique. My outlook is more about "where is your small amount of practice time best spent to remove the most strokes?"

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Those skills can each take the same amount of time or more as getting a driver straightened out.

But the payoff is going to be so much larger for fixing the big problems.

If you're spraying the ball off the tee into water, OB, etc, that nice read or great chip may help you save quad bogey. But if you can keep the ball in play and out of trouble, you may duff a chip or leave a putt 3 feet short, but you're more likely looking at a double than a quad.

Then start making incremental improvement off of that on your way to 90, then 80.

Right, but the point of the thread is breaking 100. You can't reasonably get serviceable at every golf skill at the same time, nor do you even need to just to card a 99. Keep the ball in play and out of trouble. That's Basic Rule #1. If that means hitting 2 PWs to advance the ball and avoid trouble, then do that instead of trying to force a long hybrid shot. Low risk, high consistency shots. Stay in bounds. If there's sand on the right of the green and you're 100 yards out, use your 90 yard club and aim way left. Stuff like that. Breaking 100 is not about beating the course. It's about not beating yourself with poor decisions.

ETA: And play appropriate tees. Most weekend golfers have no business playing from the tips. That's especially true for beginners and high handicappers. Play from the forward tees if you can't hit a long, straight drive yet.

There are some larger chunks of improvement in chipping and putting very early on when one is a total brand newbie just trying to get comfortable, but it very quickly becomes a long grind with very small incremental improvements. Keeping a ball in play is huge. I'll also agree that in 30 years of playing golf, the golfer that can't hit driver for **** but stripes hybrid down the middle every time is absolutely a unicorn. When I see this description, I'd surmise that their accuracy with that hybrid is quite over-exaggerated if you were to actually measure it. And it's a great point to highlight how much trouble one can get into from 185 vs. 145. .

I agree with this to an extent. I think any player trying to break 90 or 100 needs to get to the point that when you get on or near the green you can get down in three pretty much every time.

Once you get to that point I think your time is best spent on full swing.

Best way to have fewer three putts is to be closer to the hole. Best way to have easier short game shots is to have better misses. Best way to achieve either of those is to be approaching the hole from less distance. Best way to achieve that is improving your full swing ESPECIALLY your driver.

powerbelly said:

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mazag08 said:

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NColoradoAG said:

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mazag08 said:

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Most players spend the bulk of their practice time on the range with driver and irons. While you can't score without first getting to the green, the majority of the shots lost for amateurs is in this order..

1. Putting
2. Greenside (chipping, sand, etc)
3. Terrible contact (flubs, chubs, snips, yips, and chili dips)
4. Trouble off the tee (out of bounds, water, lost ball, etc).

If you can get to where you are making 75% of everything within 10 feet, and two putting 95% of everything within 30 feet, I can guarantee you will save more strokes than focusing on anything else. If you can add to that 50% successful up and downs from around the green, you will be breaking 90 easy. Add in solid contact on 95% of shots, and you're below 85 or maybe even better. THEN you can focus on all the other stuff you would usually work on at the range.

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I still don't agree with this opinion that keeps popping up. If you are hitting three from the tee box 3-4 times a round, and hitting another 3-4 in the hazard or unplayable another 3-4 holes that's 8 shots a round. I would contend it is A LOT easier to straighten that part of the game out than get to putting consistency you mention. Those numbers look like the putting numbers of a scratch golfer.

After you are keeping your ball in play I would definitely put chipping as the next part of the way to pick up quick strokes.

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You're not wrong. But for someone shooting over 100, fixing their long game is going to remove those strokes is going to take a lot more time and effort than if they focused the same time getting better at reading greens, putting, chipping, and proper sand technique. My outlook is more about "where is your small amount of practice time best spent to remove the most strokes?"

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Those skills can each take the same amount of time or more as getting a driver straightened out.

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Fair enough, to each their own.

I think the poster above said it best that it should all be looked at in a vacuum. The guy who cant get off the tee needs to get some proper lessons and learn how to hit a golf ball before he even starts caring about his score or anything else for that matter. This person likely can't hit any club well. The guy who can't break 100 but is decently putting the ball in the play likely can't score when he has the chance.

A double bogey on every hole puts you at 108. A couple bogeys and a par here and there average out the 7, 8, and 9's you are also scoring.

Where is a guy who average double bogey losing his strokes? I would say the majority are lost by not being able to get yourself close to the hole when the chance is there, and not being able to get it in the hole when on the green. But again.. the guy who is a risk to go OB on every drive probably shouldn't tee it up again until he gets the massive kink in his swing removed. And he's likely trying to break 110, not 100.

If you can't get the ball on or around the green in regulation, you are always going to be a **** golfer. That is the foundation for everything. The guys I find making tons of doubles are the ones that consistently took 3-4 strokes to get around the green. It's not guys that are pretty good at getting around the green but constantly 2-chip, 2-putting. Someone good enough at golf to get themselves around the green in reg consistently but a bad short game may have a few of those in a round, but it's not like they are out there doing it a dozen times.

I mean.. the guy I play with the most IS this guy we are talking about. The only times he breaks 100 is when we give him mulligans on his horrid shots.

Even when he hits the green from the tee on a par 3, par is a slim chance. If he's in the sand, he either cant get out, or he's still 30-40 feet from the hole. He flubs his chips, his pitches are lucky to hit the green, and he routinely 3 putts.

Yes, he sucks off the tee. But he mostly plays safe so he's not in the water or OB much. It's going to take him a ridiculous amount of dedication and practice to go from hitting it 230 and in the fairway to hitting it 270 and in the fairview.. all for the chance that his third shot is a chip or a long putt instead of pitch from 50 yards out. Regardless of where his 3rd shot is from, the result is almost always the same.. not close to the hole.

G Martin 87 said:

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Right, but the point of the thread is breaking 100. You can't reasonably get serviceable at every golf skill at the same time, nor do you even need to just to card a 99. Keep the ball in play and out of trouble. That's Basic Rule #1. If that means hitting 2 PWs to advance the ball and avoid trouble, then do that instead of trying to force a long hybrid shot. Low risk, high consistency shots. Stay in bounds. If there's sand on the right of the green and you're 100 yards out, use your 90 yard club and aim way left. Stuff like that. Breaking 100 is about not about beating the course. It's about not beating yourself with poor decisions.

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I agree that course management is critical. The example you gave about playing short left when there's trouble long right I totally agree with.

However I think that especially for high handicappers the decision to lay back or take two PWs instead of one hybrid is often a bad course management decision.

Let's say you're hitting at a green from 185 and you have a 50% chance of getting your hybrid near the green for an easy chip. 50% chance you're left with a tough up and down. The player who hits their hybrid like that doesn't have a 100% chance of executing a successful PW shot. They can flub, chunk, skull, pull, slice, etc. their PW, too. And now you have to hit two good shots in a row instead of one. Would you rather have a 50% chance of a tougher up and down with your third shot, or a 35% chance of a tougher up and down with your fourth shot?

Of course if one of the potential consequences of hitting hybrid is that you go OB or in a hazard, you make whatever choice you have to that takes that out of play.

Situations differ and everyone is different, but generally I find that choosing to lay back and play shorter clubs is often not a more conservative play.