They definitely were this time
Ryder Cup Captains Picks
21,914 Views |
241 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by aggiegolfer2012
Definitely. Sam Burns is the ultimate example. The guy has been crap since the Dell Match Play(outside of this last weekend), but since he's buddies with Scheffler, he makes the team.
Don't overlook Tiger's influence too. JT is his boy.
Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
Definitely. Sam Burns is the ultimate example. The guy has been crap since the Dell Match Play(outside of this last weekend), but since he's buddies with Scheffler, he makes the team.
I do think this is the reason for Burns over Bradley and Young. Based on ZJ's comments I'm lead to believe Young was the first man out.
Bradley didn't deserve to make the team any more than JT or Burns. Yes he won the Traveler's with a good field, but his other win was at the ZoZo Championship in October of 2022 but still gets credited as a win for the 2023 season. He's had his best year since probably 2012 but the ZoZo win carries way too much weight for being almost a full year ago.
Cam Young had a good year but still hasn't won a PGA tour event and consistently ****s his pants anytime he gets into contention on the weekend.
Ultimately between Burns, Young, and Bradley there wasn't much difference in resume, so ZJ went with what he thought was the best team fit. I'm sure it was a tough decision.
Young, Burns and Keegan all didn't play well most of this summer. Take away Burns win at Match Play and Bradley's win at Travers, their resumes weren't that great. So nothing really separated among those 3 guys. They all had chances to do better over the past 2 or so months but none of them capitalized on it. On Bradley, take away his win at the Travelers, he didn't have a Top 20 finish since the API until last Sunday at a limited field event. With Burns, since his win at Match Play in March, he had 6 Top 20 finishes but didn't play well at the last 3 majors. On Young, he was probably the most consistent overall and didn't miss many cuts and had a couple Top Tens but he never seriously contended to win outside of his loss at Match Play all year. So there was a big risk no matter who got selected.
I just see Young as the higher ceiling guy of the 3.
It seems this year it was player's picks, instead of captain's picks.Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
I'm convinced that, for the most part, the captains picks are a popularity contest.
Bizarro Jerry said:Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
Definitely. Sam Burns is the ultimate example. The guy has been crap since the Dell Match Play(outside of this last weekend), but since he's buddies with Scheffler, he makes the team.
I do think this is the reason for Burns over Bradley and Young. Based on ZJ's comments I'm lead to believe Young was the first man out.
Bradley didn't deserve to make the team any more than JT or Burns. Yes he won the Traveler's with a good field, but his other win was at the ZoZo Championship in October of 2022 but still gets credited as a win for the 2023 season. He's had his best year since probably 2012 but the ZoZo win carries way too much weight for being almost a full year ago.
Cam Young had a good year but still hasn't won a PGA tour event and consistently ****s his pants anytime he gets into contention on the weekend.
Ultimately between Burns, Young, and Bradley there wasn't much difference in resume, so ZJ went with what he thought was the best team fit. I'm sure it was a tough decision.
All the while, JT had only 3 top tens all year. Love me some JT, but in no way did he deserve to make the team
Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
Definitely. Sam Burns is the ultimate example. The guy has been crap since the Dell Match Play(outside of this last weekend), but since he's buddies with Scheffler, he makes the team.
Burns and Bradley were statistically basically the same golfer this year, why would you not take the better team guy?
How is he a better team guy than Bradley? I get the chemistry issues with Bryson but Bradley seems like a good guy.
and someone with Ryder cup experience.....If you're looking at strictly golf stats and results from the past year JT doesn't even deserve to be in the discussion for a spot on the team.
ETA: I doubt I will watch much of it this year anyway. Nobody on either team I really enjoy watching outside Rickie and Jordan.
I've always been more of a Phil and DJ and Reed supporter during Ryder Cups. Granted all LIV guys, and not playing Ryder Cup caliber golf atm. But then again neither is Burns or JT.
ETA: I doubt I will watch much of it this year anyway. Nobody on either team I really enjoy watching outside Rickie and Jordan.
I've always been more of a Phil and DJ and Reed supporter during Ryder Cups. Granted all LIV guys, and not playing Ryder Cup caliber golf atm. But then again neither is Burns or JT.
He's (Bradley) kind of spoken about it but he's always done his own thing, not really part of the group. He is about 10 years older than most of these guys too. Also, a lot of these guys have been playing together since junior golf so they know each others games very well.RogerFurlong said:
How is he a better team guy than Bradley? I get the chemistry issues with Bryson but Bradley seems like a good guy.
Bradley is the only one with an argument, but even then, Burns is still a better putter (even if it's closer). If young wanted to be selected, the rest of his game better be more lights out because he is 145th in putting.
We already have enough poor putters on the team. Needed another person who can roll it in like Scauffele and Homa. Burns and his putting is a perfect pairing for Scottie.
We already have enough poor putters on the team. Needed another person who can roll it in like Scauffele and Homa. Burns and his putting is a perfect pairing for Scottie.
I mean...if JT is on the team then DJ, Bryson and others have an argument too...but we all know they were never considered.
I'd have taken DJ all day over JT.
I'd have taken DJ all day over JT.
Sounds like the final 2 spots came down to JT, Burns, Keegan and Young. There's really no slam dunk argument for any of them. All can be defended, and all can be picked apart. I probably would have taken Keegan over Burns but that's just my layman opinion, and it's really not based on much more than I like Keegan's fire and outspoken love of the Ryder Cup.
Regardless, here's hoping we end the 30 year drought in Europe.
Regardless, here's hoping we end the 30 year drought in Europe.
Top 10's this calendar year (and no, I'm not counting the 30 man handicapped TOUR Championship)ocling said:Bizarro Jerry said:Hubert J. Farnsworth said:
Definitely. Sam Burns is the ultimate example. The guy has been crap since the Dell Match Play(outside of this last weekend), but since he's buddies with Scheffler, he makes the team.
I do think this is the reason for Burns over Bradley and Young. Based on ZJ's comments I'm lead to believe Young was the first man out.
Bradley didn't deserve to make the team any more than JT or Burns. Yes he won the Traveler's with a good field, but his other win was at the ZoZo Championship in October of 2022 but still gets credited as a win for the 2023 season. He's had his best year since probably 2012 but the ZoZo win carries way too much weight for being almost a full year ago.
Cam Young had a good year but still hasn't won a PGA tour event and consistently ****s his pants anytime he gets into contention on the weekend.
Ultimately between Burns, Young, and Bradley there wasn't much difference in resume, so ZJ went with what he thought was the best team fit. I'm sure it was a tough decision.
All the while, JT had only 3 top tens all year. Love me some JT, but in no way did he deserve to make the team
JT - 3
Keegan - 3 (1 since April)
Burns - 4 (1 since April)
Young - 4
Top 25s
JT - 10
Keegan - 6 (2 since April)
Burns - 11
Young - 8
Again, none of these guys had a resume that just demanded their selection.
Keegan had a solid year, especially considering his form the last few years. But outside of his win, it wasn't as impressive as everyone is making it out to be.
JT can't be defended. He's not getting a coach spot or a whip spot. He's there to play. And he's played like complete dog crap all year. Selecting him is a slap in the face to Keegan and Young. It doesn't matter if the guys like him if he's making them look bad.JCA1 said:
Sounds like the final 2 spots came down to JT, Burns, Keegan and Young. There's really no slam dunk argument for any of them. All can be defended, and all can be picked apart. I probably would have taken Keegan over Burns but that's just my layman opinion, and it's really not based on much more than I like Keegan's fire and outspoken love of the Ryder Cup.
Regardless, here's hoping we end the 30 year drought in Europe.
I hope he figures it out between now and then or this has the potential to blow up in everyone's faces. If they were going for fiery guy that plays big when it counts, DJ has done that this year in the majors.
He has played poorly all year, but he can absolutely be defended. For one, why limit it to just this year? The Ryder Cup point system doesn't. It covers the last 2 years. Presumably, people more involved in professional golf than you or I decided that should be the span of time to consider. He's ranked 15th on it. He also has the best Ryder Cup record of anyone on the team and has been one of team's biggest leaders. He pairs great with Speith. He's the closest thing we have to an Ian Poulter when it comes to team match play events. He also has a lengthy history of being one of the best golfers in the world. All of these are reasons to defend the selection. You don't have to agree with it, but to say there is literally no way to defend picking him over, say, Cameron Young (who's never won a single tournament) is crazy. You may not like the reasons, but there are reasons, unless you just think ZJ, Fred Couples, DLIII and whoever else was involved are just stupid.AgLA06 said:JT can't be defended. He's not getting a coach spot or a whip spot. He's there to play. And he's played like complete dog crap all year. Selecting him is a slap in the face to Keegan and Young. It doesn't matter if the guys like him if he's making them look bad.JCA1 said:
Sounds like the final 2 spots came down to JT, Burns, Keegan and Young. There's really no slam dunk argument for any of them. All can be defended, and all can be picked apart. I probably would have taken Keegan over Burns but that's just my layman opinion, and it's really not based on much more than I like Keegan's fire and outspoken love of the Ryder Cup.
Regardless, here's hoping we end the 30 year drought in Europe.
I hope he figures it out between now and then or this has the potential to blow up in everyone's faces. If they were going for fiery guy that plays big when it counts, DJ has done that this year in the majors.
Agreed. I personally wouldn't have chosen JT, but even I think you can at least make a case for selecting him. It's mostly based on past performance rather than current.
It's a tough decision. Like leaving off Young at #9 on the points list for a guy #15 on the list. I tend to love guys on a hot streak……..not saying I would have chosen him, but I love the way Glover is playing at the moment.
For me, it's not that JT is just cold at the moment, it's that he looks like his confidence is rattled. Especially putting. Not a good way to enter a Ryder Cup.
It's a tough decision. Like leaving off Young at #9 on the points list for a guy #15 on the list. I tend to love guys on a hot streak……..not saying I would have chosen him, but I love the way Glover is playing at the moment.
For me, it's not that JT is just cold at the moment, it's that he looks like his confidence is rattled. Especially putting. Not a good way to enter a Ryder Cup.
Keegan hasn't opened his suitcase from 2012!!!!!! Feel sorry for the dude.
If they had left JT off for Young or Keegan, I wouldn't have been upset and would have totally understood the decision. It was a close call. Take our version of Ian Poulter who's going through a rough patch or take a lesser player (from a career standpoint) who's playing better now.aggiedent said:
Agreed. I personally wouldn't have chosen JT, but even I think you can at least make a case for selecting him. It's mostly based on past performance rather than current.
It's a tough decision. Like leaving off Young at #9 on the points list for a guy #15 on the list. I tend to love guys on a hot streak……..not saying I would have chosen him, but I love the way Glover is playing at the moment.
For me, it's not that JT is just cold at the moment, it's that he looks like his confidence is rattled. Especially putting. Not a good way to enter a Ryder Cup.
At the end of the day, ZJ, Couples, DLIII, probably Tiger, and most of the guys on the team wanted JT. I have no doubt that ending the 30-year drought in Europe is first and foremost on their mind. Right or wrong, they picked JT because they thought he can help do that. The idea that these crazy competitive guys would throw away the Ryder Cup just so the "boys" can hang out is preposterous to me. It may not work, but I have zero doubt regarding their motivation.
Have also heard the Euros hate JT. Not as a person but as a player in the RC. He gets fans going, inspires the team, annoys competitors. He's the American Poulter to them.
There's many ways to analyze the captain's picks and what gives a team the best chance to win. Many examples through the years of different strategies working and not working (ie take the hot guy, optimize the team room, course fit, etc). Lots of defendable views on who ZJ coulda/shoulda picked.
The only thing we really know for sure is that whatever the USA has been doing in road Ryder Cups the last 30 years hasn't been working. To zoom in a little more, what we did in 2014 and 2018 definitely did not work.
In 2014, we brought in an alpha to do things his way and guide us to victory. Disaster.
In 2018, Furyk did everything textbook. Tiger, Phil and Bryson as three of the captain's picks were the ultimate no-brainers given their form in late summer 2018. They proceeded to go 0-9 combined. Does that mean recent form shouldn't matter when selecting captain's picks? Not necessarily. But it's a recent and glaring anecdote of that judgment criteria going very wrong.
Road Ryder cups are a way different animal than anything these players are used to playing in and the type of player who excels in that environment isn't necessarily the type of player who is likely to stand out in a long term qualification process.
Tiger is the epitome of that. Greatest player of all time. Sucked in road Ryder Cups.
I tend to agree that optimizing for "team room chemistry" is a misnomer. Sort of a cliche that every team in the history of Ryder Cups says they have before the cup begins. To me, the goal for selecting players to represent USA in a road Ryder Cup is a subjective evaluation of how their game translates to that environment.
It's 6:30am. Chilly. You're with a couple teammates on the range but the air is different. 30,000+ have gathered around the first tee to root against you. Your competitors are going to feed off that. Your competitors are also hungry and pissed that you beat them 19-9 last time. How ready are you get into the fox hole with your teammate and take the fight to the Euros?
What makes it even more difficult for captain's trying to make picks is that we only get a glimpse of how certain guys react to that pressure/environment once every four years. JT went 4-1 in France. How much does that mean? Was it because he was just playing really well at the time? Or was it because he's one of the few guys on the team who thrives in that environment? I guess we'll have more evidence soon.
Either way, I think JT is a totally defendable pick even with his current form taken into account. The risk of not taking him far exceeded the risk of taking him. If he lays an egg next month, then we can reconsider whether he's really the "American Poulter" that some are anointing him.
I would have errored on the side of taking Keegan over Burns for this reason. Yes it's been a while since he repped the USA on the road in 2014, but Keegan has shown the ability to bring energy and raise his game under road Ryder Cup pressure. He's a fox-hole guy that I think would have been great to pair a rookie with. In fairness, Burns might be too. We just don't know yet.
With all that said, I think it was a huge blessing that Brian Harman won the British Open and earned an auto spot. What he did down the stretch at the British with 95% of the crowd rooting against him was, IMO, as close as you can get to replicating a road Ryder Cup experience. He definitely displayed some some fox-hole ability that we're going to need.
The only thing we really know for sure is that whatever the USA has been doing in road Ryder Cups the last 30 years hasn't been working. To zoom in a little more, what we did in 2014 and 2018 definitely did not work.
In 2014, we brought in an alpha to do things his way and guide us to victory. Disaster.
In 2018, Furyk did everything textbook. Tiger, Phil and Bryson as three of the captain's picks were the ultimate no-brainers given their form in late summer 2018. They proceeded to go 0-9 combined. Does that mean recent form shouldn't matter when selecting captain's picks? Not necessarily. But it's a recent and glaring anecdote of that judgment criteria going very wrong.
Road Ryder cups are a way different animal than anything these players are used to playing in and the type of player who excels in that environment isn't necessarily the type of player who is likely to stand out in a long term qualification process.
Tiger is the epitome of that. Greatest player of all time. Sucked in road Ryder Cups.
I tend to agree that optimizing for "team room chemistry" is a misnomer. Sort of a cliche that every team in the history of Ryder Cups says they have before the cup begins. To me, the goal for selecting players to represent USA in a road Ryder Cup is a subjective evaluation of how their game translates to that environment.
It's 6:30am. Chilly. You're with a couple teammates on the range but the air is different. 30,000+ have gathered around the first tee to root against you. Your competitors are going to feed off that. Your competitors are also hungry and pissed that you beat them 19-9 last time. How ready are you get into the fox hole with your teammate and take the fight to the Euros?
What makes it even more difficult for captain's trying to make picks is that we only get a glimpse of how certain guys react to that pressure/environment once every four years. JT went 4-1 in France. How much does that mean? Was it because he was just playing really well at the time? Or was it because he's one of the few guys on the team who thrives in that environment? I guess we'll have more evidence soon.
Either way, I think JT is a totally defendable pick even with his current form taken into account. The risk of not taking him far exceeded the risk of taking him. If he lays an egg next month, then we can reconsider whether he's really the "American Poulter" that some are anointing him.
I would have errored on the side of taking Keegan over Burns for this reason. Yes it's been a while since he repped the USA on the road in 2014, but Keegan has shown the ability to bring energy and raise his game under road Ryder Cup pressure. He's a fox-hole guy that I think would have been great to pair a rookie with. In fairness, Burns might be too. We just don't know yet.
With all that said, I think it was a huge blessing that Brian Harman won the British Open and earned an auto spot. What he did down the stretch at the British with 95% of the crowd rooting against him was, IMO, as close as you can get to replicating a road Ryder Cup experience. He definitely displayed some some fox-hole ability that we're going to need.
Any thoughts on pairings? Obviously JT and Spieth are a given. Scheffler will most likely be paired with Burns. Schauffele with Cantlay. Outside of that, I don't really know. Rickie can play with anyone. I'm curious to see who Harman gets paired with. I feel like him and Koepka would make a good team but Brooks will probably be paired with someone like Morikawa.
clobby said:
Keegan hasn't opened his suitcase from 2012!!!!!! Feel sorry for the dude.
Well he got picked again in 2014 (ironically over 2 players higher than him in the standings) and went on to go 1-2-0 and lost 5&3 to Jamie Donaldson.
I think we need to nominate Deluxe for the US Ryder Cup captain in 2025 in New York
HeyAbbott said:
I think we need to nominate Deluxe for the US Ryder Cup captain in 2025 in New York
I feel pretty confident that it will either be me or Tiger
(In all seriousness, I'll be surprised if it's not Tiger. He'll be 50. It's probably the marquee home Ryder Cup of our lifetimes given the location. He's won at Bethpage before. Etc.)
yep, almost 100% will be Tiger since Phil left. This one had been pegged for him but not anymore.
i was thinking harman/koepka and clark/morikawa
Harmon & Koepka is a real possible pairing
Wouldn't mind Harman/Clark personally. Both rookies but Clark can bomb it and Harman can roll it.
I can't even imagine how crazy the crowds are going to be at a Ryder Cup at Bethpage. That's gonna be total chaos.Deluxe said:HeyAbbott said:
I think we need to nominate Deluxe for the US Ryder Cup captain in 2025 in New York
I feel pretty confident that it will either be me or Tiger
(In all seriousness, I'll be surprised if it's not Tiger. He'll be 50. It's probably the marquee home Ryder Cup of our lifetimes given the location. He's won at Bethpage before. Etc.)
Here's my (extremely inaccurate) pairing predictions that are based on nothing but my own gut feel analysis, with no inside info or data to back them up:
Friday Foursomes
Spieth/JT
Homa/Fowler
Scheffler/Morikawa
Xander/Cantlay
Friday Four Ball
Koepka/Harman
Clark/Fowler
Scheffler/Burns
Spieth/JT
Saturday Foursomes
Xander/Cantlay
Homa/Fowler
Koepka/Morikawa
Spieth/JT
Saturday Four Ball
Scheffler/Burns
Clark/Homa
Xander/Cantlay
Koepka/Harman
A few things I tried to take into account:
Friday Foursomes
Spieth/JT
Homa/Fowler
Scheffler/Morikawa
Xander/Cantlay
Friday Four Ball
Koepka/Harman
Clark/Fowler
Scheffler/Burns
Spieth/JT
Saturday Foursomes
Xander/Cantlay
Homa/Fowler
Koepka/Morikawa
Spieth/JT
Saturday Four Ball
Scheffler/Burns
Clark/Homa
Xander/Cantlay
Koepka/Harman
A few things I tried to take into account:
- No one plays more than three team matches (hilly course will probably be tough to walk 36 back to back days)
- Spieth, JT, Rickie and Max have played alot of practice rounds together this year. I suspect we'll see them in a "pod". They'll start off JT/Spieth and Rickie/Max but those four are fully interchangeable if we need to shake things up.
- Morikawa mostly focused on foursomes. Harman, Clark and Burns focused on four ball.
Looks like we need Deluxe next month as an assistant captain on the US team. Good summary on those pairings.
I agree on most of that.
I think Morikawa/Harman would be an interesting foursomes pairing.
Same player profile in general. Our two most accurate drivers of the ball, work it the same direction (lefty draw/righty fade), similar length players. Seems like they could go out there and just fairway and green the hell out of somebody, and with Harman putting from Morikawa's approaches, they could get hot quick.
I do think Clark is a four ball only guy.
The fact that Morikawa and Homa chose to play the Zurich together is interesting. They didn't play together in the President's Cup, but none of their partners there made this team.
I think Morikawa/Harman would be an interesting foursomes pairing.
Same player profile in general. Our two most accurate drivers of the ball, work it the same direction (lefty draw/righty fade), similar length players. Seems like they could go out there and just fairway and green the hell out of somebody, and with Harman putting from Morikawa's approaches, they could get hot quick.
I do think Clark is a four ball only guy.
The fact that Morikawa and Homa chose to play the Zurich together is interesting. They didn't play together in the President's Cup, but none of their partners there made this team.
Featured Stories
See All
Coogs stand in the way of Texas A&M's Tournament two-step
by Olin Buchanan
6:12
5h ago
953
10:08
6h ago
568
Hill, Holloway, Agee, Lane & Dominguez join Reed & React
by David Nuño
7:14
5h ago
642
An inside look at Sampson's Cougars with Joseph Mosbey of CoogTV
by Luke Evangelist