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The A-10 will retire some day, the question has always been what the replacement will be. A stealth multipurpose airframe isn't a sufficient CAS platform in their current variants, and likely never will be.

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There's no reason an aircraft that is stealthy or multi-role can't do CAS. There are plenty of aircraft that can do CAS, and you don't need to be slow with a big gun. The A-10 was designed when the gun was the most precision weapon on the aircraft. That's no longer the case, and if you can stay away from threats and still kill the enemy, there is no need for the A-10. That is the future.

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Not a grunt or one who has worked with CAS.

Ever heard from some F/A18 pilots tasked with CAS? Problem is they fly too fast and often too high for good eyes on the situation.

There's a reason drones aren't doing it now, and why it's called close air support.

A p51 wouldn't be a bad choice if it it has good air space to fly in. SR71, not so much.
In close contact, being able to fly slow enough to actually see the participants is important.

Yeah, I've never "worked with CAS". You obviously know what you're talking about, and have a very firm grasp on the concept. Out of curiosity, on what exactly do you base your opinion?

and here we go.....

Time to bring back A-1 Skyraiders

I loved working with the A10s !

ApachePilot, right back at you, brother.

When the A-10 goes away, a lot of Americans will die because bombs were the only option in our next infantry war.

Why would bombs be the only option?

What else would they have? 180 rounds from an up canted 25 mm gun?

Well yeah. Also, we won't always be fighting in a situation where we limit ourselves to a gun because of ROE. Don't get me wrong, I like the A-10 and I think it would be cool to fly. However it's silly for the fanboy crew to claim that something that can fly fast or is "stealth" can't do CAS. I especially liked being asked if I've ever seen an F-18 do CAS since they're obviously too fast.

What if they took an Osprey and put some cannons on it a la the AC130? The range and speed on a plane with the loiter of a helo.

You're welcome, DOD! I'll assume the check is in the mail!

You have to have seen the A10 from ground-level to understand why fast-movers like F16 and F18 are generally horrible at the CAS role.

First, I've seen the A10 fly and manuever at speeds at which an F16/18 would probably stall. Second, A10 can turn damn near on a dime--I've seen A10 pilots put them up on one wing and come back around almost within sight of a target. Third, I trust an A10 pilot aiming/firing that GAU-8 at 300' AGL much more than I trust an F16 driver watching a bomb fall on TV screen at 10,000 feet. Finally, there is the psychological factor. If you've ever been on the ground when one of those beautifully ugly birds is coming at you--you are thankful that you're one of the good guys (rather than a target).

I know Fairchild-Republic is no more--but the government should re-open the A10 line and build more! Barring that, a new/updated A1 Skyraider would probably still perform admirably in the CAS role.

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What if they took an Osprey and put some cannons on it a la the AC130? The range and speed on a plane with the loiter of a helo.

You're welcome, DOD! I'll assume the check is in the mail!

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That may be next. After all, the Marine Corps has put four Hellfires on the wing of a KC-130J Harvest Hawk and the 30mm cannon for Harvest Hawk is forthcoming. The Harvest Hawk is teamed with the Ospreys on the SPMAGTF-CR so that it can refuel and provide fire support for the Ospreys landing the infantry. Harvest Hawk isn't a Spectre but it's pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIodcKSIARU

Mud walls in 3rd world countries have rendered GBUs useless on numerous occasions. There's a cost benefit when you try to make a multipurpose aircraft and scrap the rest, but the adage; "jack of all trades, master of none" exists for a reason.

An Osprey with 3 machine guns isn't a terrible idea though...

How is the Ospret program doing? Are the bugs worked out and safety issues addressed?

An Osprey with guns on it would be pretty pointless. Where would the weapons go? What kind of angle would they be able to shoot without hitting its own props? There is a reason they only have a tail gun right now.

The HH is good for what we're doing right now. It can drill holes for a long time, then put small weapons on small targets in a very low threat environment. It's great for staring at something long enough to satisfy whatever ridiculous flavor of ROE is currently in style. It's a quick way to get some of the capabilities of an AC-130 without having to actually buy a new plane that only does one thing. The Air Force has the money and size to keep specialized platforms around. They should keep AC-130's and some A-10's around for a long time in my opinion.

As for mud houses withstanding GBU's, well yeah that has happened. However, a target that can soak up a 500 or 1000lb bomb probably isn't going to have much trouble with a gun either.

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How is the Osprey program doing? Are the bugs worked out and safety issues addressed?

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The MV-22 Osprey's have been deployed in Iraq and then Afghanistan since 2008 with no mishaps of which I am aware. They are the Ferrari of troop hauling aircraft. AFSOC has lost at least one CV-22 in Afghanistan but I can't recall the circumstances. There was also a CV-22 that got shot up last month in South Sudan attempting a NEO in what turned out to be a "non-permissive" environment when it apparently did not have escorts capable of launching PGMs or providing suppression of ground fire.

edit: While the safety and reliability of the Ospreys is as good or better than some other operational aircraft it has a huge appetite for repair parts and maintenance. It is as expensive to operate as it was to procure.

[This message has been edited by Ulysses90 (edited 1/18/2014 5:27p).]

By all accounts, I recall that the AF C-5 also had (has?) "a huge appetite for repair parts and maintenance. It is as expensive to operate as it was to procure."

Is that still the case?

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You have to have seen the A10 from ground-level to understand why fast-movers like F16 and F18 are generally horrible at the CAS role.

First, I've seen the A10 fly and manuever at speeds at which an F16/18 would probably stall. Second, A10 can turn damn near on a dime--I've seen A10 pilots put them up on one wing and come back around almost within sight of a target. Third, I trust an A10 pilot aiming/firing that GAU-8 at 300' AGL much more than I trust an F16 driver watching a bomb fall on TV screen at 10,000 feet. Finally, there is the psychological factor. If you've ever been on the ground when one of those beautifully ugly birds is coming at you--you are thankful that you're one of the good guys (rather than a target).

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Well put.

I enlisted in 1990. During reception at Knox, there was a discussion about whether the Army was going to buy the A-10's from the Air Force as was mentioned earlier. They'd already advertised in the Army Times (yeah, I know) the recruiting plan for in service recruits into a potential flight program should the AF actually close the sale.

Then Desert Storm happened. The AF decided the A-10 garnered some screen time on CNN so the kept it.

I don't understand why they want to kill it, it is in every video game in the genre and it REALLY works.

Update

A-10 backers win House vote to save plane

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The U.S. House on Thursday overwhelmingly adopted an amendment to the 2015 defense appropriation bill that would prohibit the Pentagon from spending any money to retire the A-10 Thunderbolt II jet — a mainstay of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.

But the fate of the venerated “Warthog” close-air-support jet remains far from certain, as the Senate still must act, and the issue will likely be hammered out in conference committee....


Opponents, including the chairman and ranking Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, called the A-10 retirement spending ban disingenuous because it would raise no funds for the A-10, requiring the Air Force to scramble to find about $500 million....

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Glad to see the A-10 hanging around, but I worry about what they are going to cut to save it. Already don't like what I hear about deferred maintainence for the training fleet, even before this.

Some thoughts by the editor at Air Force magazine...

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2014/June%202014/0614edit.aspx

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So far, Congress has refused to take action to end sequestration, but has eagerly tied the Air Force’s hands by ordering it to keep specific portions of the force in service. And of course, no additional money is coming to pay for these mandates, so USAF is forced to cut spending on training and future systems to make ends meet.

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The Air Force complaining about funding! Please continue- I'm in need of a good laugh!

I got to see a pair doing training over Smoky Hill range outside of Salina on Friday. Sad to think that this may be the last time I get to see them in air.

Glad to hear Smokey Hill is still active. Back in the day (30 years ago) I gave more weather briefings for sorties over Smokey Hill than I can count. TAC fighters and SAC heavies.

It was quite active last week. I camped out at Kanopolis Lake starting on Wednesday. Wed evening a B-52 was making passes and then on Thursday, an AC-130 was doing a high orbit. You could hear the 20mm and 75mm doing their work.

For a free airshow, it was not bad!

A-10

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The coolest plane to ever take off from Carswell was the B-58 Hustler.

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Followed very closely by the B-36.