Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

most people?

are you kidding?

ElephantRider said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

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We aren't selfish. It's not our responsibility to worry about a microbe we can't even see that MIGHT be with us. Sure, if one has a temperature, yes. But the rest isnt on us. It's not during flu season, it's not when West Nile is floating around, it's not for the common cold. It's not and never should be a single person's responsibility to "not spread" a virus unless there are symptoms and an obvious fever.

Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This statement fails every test of logic.

AggieJosh2002 said:

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SirLurksALot said:

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HotardAg07 said:

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SirLurksALot said:

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HotardAg07 said:

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Places like Hong Kong and Japan have nearly universal mask adoption and despite way more population density than us and not having a lockdown they were able to avoid an outbreak.

It's the lowest cost lever we have to pull that makes a difference. Wear the mask.

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Beijing and LA have had mask requirements and widespread adoption yet they are currently experiencing outbreaks. Australia and New Zealand have also done a good job at containment yet don't have mask orders.

It hasn't been proven that masks are the reason Japan and SK have done well. Maybe the fact all 4 countries are islands (SK is practically an island for immigration purposes) and are easily able to control who enters their countries has something to do with their ability to contain the disease.

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The reason I used Japan and Hong Kong as examples is that their population density is so high and it would apparently be a hot bed for spreading infectious diseases. Australia and New Zealand aren't nearly as densely populated and LA doesn't have nearly the same mask adoption rate. It is over 97% in Hong Kong in Japan.

Look, it probably doesn't mean the virus will vanish if everybody started wearing cloth masks, but it might help 10-15%. If that helps us go from a situation with Rt>1 to <1 (with other mitigating factors) it is worth it. If it doesn't help, then what have we lost? Nothing.

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If It's not working in LA then it's not going to work anywhere else in America. Out of all the places in this country LA is going to be one of the areas with the highest amount of compliance.

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A mask mandate will do nothing without enforcement, and that statement is one of the most incorrect statements I've seen on this site. I live in SoCal, and virtually no one is out and about with masks, even with a mandate from the Governor as it is not being enforced. I suspect it will be the same out there in TX, but I guess we'll see.

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Agree. I live in SoCal as well, and I'm not sure why you think LA would have the highest compliance rate. To enter businesses you are required to wear a mask, and businesses get fined if they aren't enforcing that (at least where I am, just south of LA). But once inside the business a lot of them don't enforce the mask rule.

There is no single silver bullet in this fight. Nothing is going to work 100%, even vaccines probably wont. But every little bit helps. There is plenty of data out there that suggests masks can help curb disease spread through several mechanisms. Just because the government says you should wear one doesn't mean you have to be defiant like a teenager and their parents. The government also says you should wear a seatbelt, and not drink and drive. Both are good ideas regardless of if the government said so or not.

Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

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We aren't selfish. It's not our responsibility to worry about a microbe we can't even see that MIGHT be with us. Sure, if one has a temperature, yes. But the rest isnt on us. It's not during flu season, it's not when West Nile is floating around, it's not for the common cold. It's not and never should be a single person's responsibility to "not spread" a virus unless there are symptoms and an obvious fever.

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So obvious fever is it? In hays county the virus is spreading because folks with obvious fever decided to go to bars and parties without a mask and spread it? I partied in college but I don't recall hitting north gate when I had a fever. Usually when I have a fever I feel like **** and stay home.

Bruce Almighty said:

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Explain

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You said: Masks only work if everyone does it.

The fundamental assumption of the mask argument is that it prevents spread of the virus from the mask wearer to the environment (as opposed to serving as a prophylactic for the mask wearer from virus already in the environment).

"Masks only work if everyone does it." means that there is no marginal benefit to the contamination level of the environment from a single person wearing a mask; the benefit only appears with 100% compliance, per the literal interpretation of your statement.

If a single person wearing a mask contributes **nothing** toward the improvement of the environment, then, in the aggregate, the improvement arising from full compliance remains zero (i.e., 355,000,000 Americans x zero improvement to environment per person = zero improvement to the environment).

Q.E.D.

Now, I you would like to argue the efficacy of the prophylactic capabilities of masks, we can do so. But, that doesn't require me to wear one, does it?

I feel like I'm having a conversation with Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.

Based on your non sequitur, I conclude you are convinced by my argument.

Easy there bud. What I think you're ultimately going to find out is that the masks most people are wearing (cloth, bandanna, etc.) don't materially reduce transmission while at the same time make people let down their guard because of their perceived effectiveness. The protests are a great example of this. I realize you think masks are answer to everything, but it's not quite that simple.

CastleRock said:

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Mask deniers are lower intellectually than flat earthers. At least the latter don't hurt anyone.

Those of you who think masks don't work, do you:

A) not believe that droplets are the main source of transmission
B) not believe that masks essentially stop droplets from expulsion

I still can't believe there are actual adults who believe the above. They have to be mentally handicapped in some way.

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Think of the "Good, better , best" principle. Masks MIGHT limit some spread, but they are being made out to be a "proven" (governor'mandate's words) when that hasn't been tested enough under the proper conditions to warrant the term "proven". Plus, we do not know enough of the virus to be able to really know if the masks might work for some, under certain conditions, vs no masks etc. There would need to be real scientific tests with an actual controls over a period of time before we would really know. So it would take years to probably have actual firm evidence. This isn't a lack of intellect. It's just facts. Otherwise, the notion that masks stop the spread is the absolute definition of anecdotal evidence at this point. Right now, what medical science is saying about masks truthfully is that TO BE SAFE, let's wear masks b/c we have seen where some to strong evidence supports the use of masks to prevent the spread. But, is that enough for you to be forced to wear one? I am on Remicade. An immuno-suppressant. I've been on it since 2007. I've been less sick in that time than any other time of my life. Why? Well, I am much more aware of how microbes spread and as such take account. Limit hands to face, wash hands etc. plus I workout and eat really well which is a choice I made and made in a way where I don't miss my training sessions regardless of what life/work throws at me there by boosting my immune system more. We may find that this is all one really needs. I mean, if the guy who actually has a weakened immune system can get through cold/flu season unscathed and takes the precautions necessary to limit illness and it's worked without ever even thinking about a mask, maybe there's a lesson for all of us here.

JesusQuintana said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

---

This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

---

We aren't selfish. It's not our responsibility to worry about a microbe we can't even see that MIGHT be with us. Sure, if one has a temperature, yes. But the rest isnt on us. It's not during flu season, it's not when West Nile is floating around, it's not for the common cold. It's not and never should be a single person's responsibility to "not spread" a virus unless there are symptoms and an obvious fever.

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So obvious fever is it? In hays county the virus is spreading because folks with obvious fever decided to go to bars and parties without a mask and spread it? I partied in college but I don't recall hitting north gate when I had a fever. Usually when I have a fever I feel like **** and stay home.

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What's your point? Yes, asymptomatics will spread it. The virus WILL spread. Because people make a choice to go out and unfortunately some will get it/spread it. Nature in action. What I am saying is that in no way is the spread the asym's fault. IF they don't know that they have it, it's not on them to worry about spread. That is asking too much and beyond the scope of what a person should be burdened with. IMO. Why? Because it sets a dangerous precedent in the future. This is a MINOR virus overall. almost 100% will be ok. When the next virus pops up, the precedent is now set and even more rules start to pop up. ANd where does this end??? Mask policy ends when???? Next year? 5 years? 10 Years? never? Unfortunately, there has to be an answer or you can't make a rule.

I wear a mask as a courtesy to others, as it's a non-burden, but the evidence that they reduce transmission is perilously thin. Anyone claiming it's "proven" is vastly overstating the case.

And as others have said, LA stands as a pretty stark counterexample of a strong government mask policy having a significant impact.

An epidemiologist that studies bat borne viruses:

Quote:

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Yet the evidence is hardly strong enough to elevate mask-wearing into the epitome of moral behavior. Doing so reflects a greater preoccupation with the psychological effect of masks - perhaps as a restoration of control in the face of an unseen and often perplexing enemy with no cure and no prophylaxis - than with their scientific reality. Americans should demand evidence-based decision-making and policies driven by soundly attested facts, not assumptions or psychological palliatives.

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https://www.city-journal.org/reality-of-wearing-masks

CastleRock said:

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Mask deniers are lower intellectually than flat earthers. At least the latter don't hurt anyone.

Those of you who think masks don't work, do you:

A) not believe that droplets are the main source of transmission
B) not believe that masks essentially stop droplets from expulsion

I still can't believe there are actual adults who believe the above. They have to be mentally handicapped in some way.

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People have turned it into a political thing.... you know, like everything else.

People HAVE to fight about everything.

This is great news. People need to wear masks to protect themselves AND OTHERS.
I went to a Buc-ees on a road trip last week and my wife and I immediately regretted it after seeing how many people where not wearing masks. Not doing that again until after Covid is eradicated.

Quote:

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Not doing that again until after Covid leaves.

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When is it magically going to "leave"? When its lease is up? Can't we just evict it now?

Dan_Shedd said:

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This is great news. People need to wear masks to protect themselves AND OTHERS.
I went to a Buc-ees on a road trip last week and my wife and I immediately regretted it after seeing how many people where not wearing masks. Not doing that again until after Covid leaves.

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The likelihood of infection from casual contact in a store is exceedingly small. Stores with people moving about just aren't strong locations for transmission. No grocery store was been the source of any significant cluster, for example. Not even among employees. A few here and there, at most.

Infections happen from extended close indoor contact, especially in dense crowds.


(Something like, say, a subway. If a city was wholly dependent on a subway system, one might expect to see a huge outbreak in said city.)

Keegan99 said:

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I wear a mask as a courtesy to others, as it's a non-burden, but the evidence that they reduce transmission is perilously thin. Anyone claiming it's "proven" is vastly overstating the case.

And as others have said, LA stands as a pretty stark counterexample of a strong government mask policy having a significant impact.

An epidemiologist that studies bat borne viruses:

Quote:

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Yet the evidence is hardly strong enough to elevate mask-wearing into the epitome of moral behavior. Doing so reflects a greater preoccupation with the psychological effect of masks - perhaps as a restoration of control in the face of an unseen and often perplexing enemy with no cure and no prophylaxis - than with their scientific reality. Americans should demand evidence-based decision-making and policies driven by soundly attested facts, not assumptions or psychological palliatives.

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https://www.city-journal.org/reality-of-wearing-masks

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Fantastic point!

That's not true. Most people, almost everyone I know, is taking this serious. I go out and most if not all are wearing masks and distancing. Houston, Tx.

Where are you seeing all this non compliance crazy people?

The best reason for masks that I've heard, though it doesn't prevent you from getting it or giving it to someone else, it's highly likely that it does reduce the viral load to any exposure. And it's the viral load that is the biggest predictor in your level of symptoms and severity of disease.

So I wear one when it makes sense to not only be respectful to people that likely have a higher risk profile than I do, but also to lower level of viral load if I do get exposed. I kind of want to get it, but just have mild symptoms.

RandyAg98 said:

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Quote:

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Not doing that again until after Covid leaves.

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When is it magically going to "leave"? When its lease is up? Can't we just evict it now?

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Yup. Which is what makes this so short sighted. Until a vaccine MIGHT be created, it means get used to masks everywhere. Yet there are not enough actual studies with masks and Covid to warrant that conclusion.

Guys, examples used are of ethnically homogeneous island nations where culturally the population has a very long and well documented history of following authority. Japan and S. Korea. We have not yet had to time or ability to create a true controlled study of these places to really know if the masks are at all the reason for there being lower numbers of cases. Could certain ethnic groups be more susceptible to Covid? Could the fact that nations that have histories of compliance with authority play a major factor? Look at how the US or even really the colonies formed. Many were trying to escape authority for one reason or another. In Japan, the Bushido code saw that sacrifice for the Emperor was the most honorable way to die. Think about that for a second.

It takes a massive tragedy or event to get the US and it's citizens to get behind anything. Look no further than US opinion towards enter WWII before Pearl Harbor and the opinion on Dec 8. Sure, if Covid killed 40% of the population, we'd do whatever we could in hopes of stopping the spread. When 99.997% survive or don't even show signs of having the virus, you won't get the majority of Americans to follow an unproven mask policy. Worse yet, threaten us with fines and even imprisonment? You're just asking us to not follow it. American is literally formed to not follow authority. Yet here we are surprised anyone would be "selfish" enough to not want to put an unproven mask on our face b/c an "authority" told us to.

I'm not sure what the details of all this new Mandate is, but when I leave in a few minutes to go on my morning jog, I'm not wearing a mask. Screw that.

I had an appt yesterday with my tax guy. We sat across a normal office desk (4-5 ft apart) from each other for 45 minutes with mask on. I thought it was ridiculous. Of course, if I or he had to sneeze or cough, I'm sure we would had the decency to "cover up" or whatever. Just like a normal mtg. Why were we wearing masks?

And , I was at Trader Joes' the other day, and they only let a certain amt of people in at once. So there were like 20-30 people outside in line, all on their little "X" standing 6' apart. And everyone was wearing a mask (not mandated yet), except me. Why was everyone wearing a mask (in 100* heat), outside, standing 6' apart?? Does the 6' rule not work? Was it just fear? Virtue signaling? Pro-masks folks, clue me in here.
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Maybe I'm just looking at all this in a "common sense" way, and I just need to quit thinking and be a good boy and do what I'm told.