planoaggie123 said:

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We could have similar set-up without government overreach. Businesses can make their own decisions that they see fit for themselves and their employees...

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Just curious if you are also opposed to mandated health inspections by the government or if that is also over reach. Should restaurants just be free to run their sanitary policies in their kitchens as they feel like or see fit?

Maybe you think there should be absolutely zero govt regulation in any way shape or form, but I'd bet a large majority of people throwing fits about masks are quite pleased with a LOT of other forms of "over reach"

Then I guess we should fully expect everyone losing their minds about a mask to also begin lobbying to get rid of mandatory health inspections, TABC inspections etc.

Nobody says a word about any of these permanent over reaches, but are absolutely going ballistic over a mask that may help our economy stay open. Just is completely inconsistent.

planoaggie123 said:

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Calm down.

I do tend to take a "less is more" approach with government. Not anti government. It is a necessary thing at times.

I worked in food for a few years as a younger guy (by no means an expert) and did experience some safety inspections. Some of the findings were laughable at best related to food cans, etc. I guess they did their job and kept us from having rats and undercooking food or storing food at improper temps.

Maybe an oversimplification but I would assume w/o Govt inspecting restaurants...people would probably quickly get a sense for who takes care of their restaurant and who doesn't. Once a restaurant is known for being dirty or improper food maintenance and getting customers sick word would spread and people would not go there.

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I'm plenty calm. And ironically I have voted Libertarian several times recently and very likely will in November. I just am not as worked up over a temporary mask request as some on here. My family still has the same food business that I grew up working in, so I get that some of the requirements are silly and/or laughable. But for the most part it's probably a good idea.

I just don't understand how we can throw a fit that the economy should be completely opened and remain so, yet also see so many of those people throwing equally large fits about ANY kind of reasonable measures to help us accomplish that.

planoaggie123 said:

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I thought we were ok with our approach by going straight to the table. They chose to see it a different way.

We obliged, walked out, and now choose to spend money at other business.

It is pretty amazing how the process works.

We could have similar set-up without government overreach. Businesses can make their own decisions that they see fit for themselves and their employees...

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It's been made pretty clear on tv, in the paper, on the Internet, signs of doors of businesses that adults must be wearing a mask to enter the building. You don't have to wear it while eating, but you do have o wear it when entering and exiting the restaurant.

You were trying to push the envelope and see what you could get away with. Pretty childish move. Good for Potbelly for refusing you service.

Is the fact that drunk driving is illegal also an example of government overreach? In both instances the issue is not about you, but the people around you that are involuntarily subjected to your behavior. If you drive drunk once, there's a good chance nothing bad will happen just like not wearing a mask. However, that doesn't mean the government shouldn't make it illegal to drink and drive.

The biggest differences are that masks could potentially save more lives and the economy, but drunk drivers see the direct consequences of their actions.

planoaggie123 said:

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Hard to reconcile voting Libertarian and agreeing to government mandates.

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How so? Libertarianism is being ok with what people do, so long as it doesn't affect them.

Personally I contend that wearing masks for now in a public place can reasonably prevent other people from getting sick due to you being potentially out while contagious. If I did NOT think that you not wearing a mask would affect anyone else, then I would be against them.

My opinion is that it's a reasonable temporary thing to ask of people so that we can keep our economy going.

planoaggie123 said:

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re: Libertarian...i always just think of it as more freedom from politics. more autonomy. ability to choose for one's self. the mandates are not that.

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Being a libertarian doesn't make one an anarchist. By your logic, libertarians would be opposed to virtually any and all laws. That's not really the case, but it's why people look at them as lunatics for the most part.

I look at it more as being opposed to mandates that wouldn't affect other people. Temporarily mandating masks to help stop the spread of a pandemic for the greater good doesn't strike me as the massive destruction of civil liberties that the right wingers have turned it into.

I'm sure just like the major parties, there are varying degrees of what anyone considers being a Libertarian.

I doubt many Republicans or Democrat align 100% with the party platform. I have generally always voted Republican but have grown tired of both of the parties drawing lines in the sand and getting 0 done. The only even remotely palatable option to me is the Libertarian party.

In large part I find myself voting for them out of disgust at the status quo of today's politics.

One has only to spend 2 minutes in Forum 16 to see why anyone would be done with today's politics. That place is disgusting.

Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

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We aren't selfish. It's not our responsibility to worry about a microbe we can't even see that MIGHT be with us. Sure, if one has a temperature, yes. But the rest isnt on us. It's not during flu season, it's not when West Nile is floating around, it's not for the common cold. It's not and never should be a single person's responsibility to "not spread" a virus unless there are symptoms and an obvious fever.

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Gosh darn germs, ya can't even see um. How the heck you want us to do sumfin? Wear a dern mask? This is America' I ain't given up my freedom!

This is how you sound.

planoaggie123 said:

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murphyag said:

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planoaggie123 said:

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I thought we were ok with our approach by going straight to the table. They chose to see it a different way.

We obliged, walked out, and now choose to spend money at other business.

It is pretty amazing how the process works.

We could have similar set-up without government overreach. Businesses can make their own decisions that they see fit for themselves and their employees...

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It's been made pretty clear on tv, in the paper, on the Internet, signs of doors of businesses that adults must be wearing a mask to enter the building. You don't have to wear it while eating, but you do have o wear it when entering and exiting the restaurant.

You were trying to push the envelope and see what you could get away with. Pretty childish move. Good for Potbelly for refusing you service.

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You can call it childish if you want. Literally nobody in the restuarant. We maintained well over 6 ft distance.

They chose to disagree and we obliged.

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You willingly and knowingly chose to violate the rules of the restaurant, and when asked to leave because you willingly and knowingly refused to follow the rules, you cried and made excuses ("we thought she was compliant" is a flat out lie) and ran to throw a tantrum on the internet.
That's being a child.
See, being an adult would be owning your actions and the results they caused, not blaming everyone because you didn't get your way.

Aggie1946 said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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Bruce Almighty said:

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Masks only work if everyone does it. It amazes me how a country that claims to be more patriotic then anyone else really only thinks of themselves in times like these. Europe and Asia gets it. Where a mask to save your fellow man. Here? People won't do it to stick it to the government, liberals or whomever. This "I won't do what the government tells me to do" mentality will only prolong this crap. We're our own worst enemy.

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This whole thing has really driven home just how selfish Americans are. We suck.

We're also stupid. We want to keep things open but most people literally won't take a single precaution to help that happen.

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We aren't selfish. It's not our responsibility to worry about a microbe we can't even see that MIGHT be with us. Sure, if one has a temperature, yes. But the rest isnt on us. It's not during flu season, it's not when West Nile is floating around, it's not for the common cold. It's not and never should be a single person's responsibility to "not spread" a virus unless there are symptoms and an obvious fever.

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Gosh darn germs, ya can't even see um. How the heck you want us to do sumfin? Wear a dern mask? This is America' I ain't given up my freedom!

This is how you sound.

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Honestly, I think masks are bs. There hasn't been time to do actual studies where we can have conclusive evidence. That isn't how science works. I believe that level at which a mask blocks the spread is too minimal to really matter in terms of viral spread. I could be wrong. yet there hasn't been time to study this effectively. No controls and not enough data. Plus its been proven to be very dangerous in my line of work. I am a strength coach. I might wear a mask coaching but my athlete never should. He or she needs all the O2 they can get b/c they actually train hard. I challenge you to argue against that. In the end, I would be absolutely stupid to squate 320 lbs while wearing a mask. Deadlift 400. Bench (lol) 300? We aren't talking about "bro" lifts here. Actual training and movements. Which, if mastered, will do more to ensure you survive Covid than any doctor could.

So, honest question. Are those "Elevation" masks super dangerous for athletes then? See lots of people use them and they would seem to be highly dangerous if a cloth mask is deemed too dangerous to train in.

How much oxygen does a basic cloth mask really block out?