Aust Ag said:

---

I'm not sure what the details of all this new Mandate is, but when I leave in a few minutes to go on my morning jog, I'm not wearing a mask. Screw that.

I had an appt yesterday with my tax guy. We sat across a normal office desk (4-5 ft apart) from each other for 45 minutes with mask on. I thought it was ridiculous. Of course, if I or he had to sneeze or cough, I'm sure we would had the decency to "cover up" or whatever. Just like a normal mtg. Why were we wearing masks?

And , I was at Trader Joes' the other day, and they only let a certain amt of people in at once. So there were like 20-30 people outside in line, all on their little "X" standing 6' apart. And everyone was wearing a mask (not mandated yet), except me. Why was everyone wearing a mask (in 100* heat), outside, standing 6' apart?? Does the 6' rule not work? Was it just fear? Virtue signaling? Pro-masks folks, clue me in here.
.
Maybe I'm just looking at all this in a "common sense" way, and I just need to quit thinking and be a good boy and do what I'm told.

---

One SHOULD NEVER wear a mask while working out. It's dangerous. Inside or out. If your gym happens to force you to wear a mask while training, get a new gym.

No one ever said that wearing masks would eliminate the virus spread.

No one ever said that keeping 6 feet apart would eliminate the virus spread.

If you read that into any of the guidance, that's on you.

They are both rather easy things people can to help decrease the spread.


Sometimes I feel like our government should have just forbid people from wearing a mask or getting close to other people -- then you'd have many of the same people refusing to take their mask off or get within 6 feet of others.

bay fan said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

AggieJosh2002 said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

Places like Hong Kong and Japan have nearly universal mask adoption and despite way more population density than us and not having a lockdown they were able to avoid an outbreak.

It's the lowest cost lever we have to pull that makes a difference. Wear the mask.

---

Beijing and LA have had mask requirements and widespread adoption yet they are currently experiencing outbreaks. Australia and New Zealand have also done a good job at containment yet don't have mask orders.

It hasn't been proven that masks are the reason Japan and SK have done well. Maybe the fact all 4 countries are islands (SK is practically an island for immigration purposes) and are easily able to control who enters their countries has something to do with their ability to contain the disease.

---

The reason I used Japan and Hong Kong as examples is that their population density is so high and it would apparently be a hot bed for spreading infectious diseases. Australia and New Zealand aren't nearly as densely populated and LA doesn't have nearly the same mask adoption rate. It is over 97% in Hong Kong in Japan.

Look, it probably doesn't mean the virus will vanish if everybody started wearing cloth masks, but it might help 10-15%. If that helps us go from a situation with Rt>1 to <1 (with other mitigating factors) it is worth it. If it doesn't help, then what have we lost? Nothing.

---

If It's not working in LA then it's not going to work anywhere else in America. Out of all the places in this country LA is going to be one of the areas with the highest amount of compliance.

---

A mask mandate will do nothing without enforcement, and that statement is one of the most incorrect statements I've seen on this site. I live in SoCal, and virtually no one is out and about with masks, even with a mandate from the Governor as it is not being enforced. I suspect it will be the same out there in TX, but I guess we'll see.

---

Agree. I live in SoCal as well, and I'm not sure why you think LA would have the highest compliance rate. To enter businesses you are required to wear a mask, and businesses get fined if they aren't enforcing that (at least where I am, just south of LA). But once inside the business a lot of them don't enforce the mask rule.

There is no single silver bullet in this fight. Nothing is going to work 100%, even vaccines probably wont. But every little bit helps. There is plenty of data out there that suggests masks can help curb disease spread through several mechanisms. Just because the government says you should wear one doesn't mean you have to be defiant like a teenager and their parents. The government also says you should wear a seatbelt, and not drink and drive. Both are good ideas regardless of if the government said so or not.

---

What area is going to have more compliance than LA? Notice that I didn't say everyone in LA would comply. I only stated that the makeup of the LA area lends itself to higher rates of compliance. Like it or not mask wearing has become political. LA being a more liberal area as well as the fact that the mask ordinance has already been normalized there makes it logical to believe they'd have more compliance than the rest of the country. I find it hard to believe that anywhere in Texas is going to have a higher percentage of people wearing masks than in LA.

---

Seriously? How about an area without the beaches and so much to do? If you are at home, you aren't spreading it. People don't live in So Cal to stay home in the summer. I'd stay home in Texas when it's a million degrees and humid out but when in LA I am never inside except to sleep. It's about opportunity, don't act as if you have any idea beside preconceived politics about CA.

---

Leisure Outside activities aren't the cause of the spread. It's pretty easy to stay away from each other At the beach.

One answer: There's no reason that wearing a mask AND standing 6 feet can't both help the prevention of spread. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

The likely answer: It's just easier to have the same rules while "in line" as "in store", because the masses have proven they struggle with following even the simplest direction.


But it's telling that you immediately assume those wearing a mask in line must be either fearful or virtue-signaling.

Maybe, just maybe, there's a lot of people out there that just really don't think wearing a mask is all that big a deal. They aren't afraid, they aren't virtue signaling - they are adults that aren't so easily flustered by little things.

cone said:

---

most people?

are you kidding?

---

Most people that I know are not taking any precautions. I know a lot of people who go out of their way to show how much they aren't worried about the virus. Granted, I live in East Texas. Not exactly a bastion of intellect.

cone said:

---

bummer bro

not my experience at all

---

I mean, my sister-in-law and her husband literally said a week ago that they don't think the virus is real, that it is 100% a hoax. "I'm not saying they don't have those symptoms, but how do we really know that it's COVID?"

yeah

I'm sure those people exist

but mask compliance is very high rn in inner loop Houston

SirLurksALot said:

---

bay fan said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

AggieJosh2002 said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

Places like Hong Kong and Japan have nearly universal mask adoption and despite way more population density than us and not having a lockdown they were able to avoid an outbreak.

It's the lowest cost lever we have to pull that makes a difference. Wear the mask.

---

Beijing and LA have had mask requirements and widespread adoption yet they are currently experiencing outbreaks. Australia and New Zealand have also done a good job at containment yet don't have mask orders.

It hasn't been proven that masks are the reason Japan and SK have done well. Maybe the fact all 4 countries are islands (SK is practically an island for immigration purposes) and are easily able to control who enters their countries has something to do with their ability to contain the disease.

---

The reason I used Japan and Hong Kong as examples is that their population density is so high and it would apparently be a hot bed for spreading infectious diseases. Australia and New Zealand aren't nearly as densely populated and LA doesn't have nearly the same mask adoption rate. It is over 97% in Hong Kong in Japan.

Look, it probably doesn't mean the virus will vanish if everybody started wearing cloth masks, but it might help 10-15%. If that helps us go from a situation with Rt>1 to <1 (with other mitigating factors) it is worth it. If it doesn't help, then what have we lost? Nothing.

---

If It's not working in LA then it's not going to work anywhere else in America. Out of all the places in this country LA is going to be one of the areas with the highest amount of compliance.

---

A mask mandate will do nothing without enforcement, and that statement is one of the most incorrect statements I've seen on this site. I live in SoCal, and virtually no one is out and about with masks, even with a mandate from the Governor as it is not being enforced. I suspect it will be the same out there in TX, but I guess we'll see.

---

Agree. I live in SoCal as well, and I'm not sure why you think LA would have the highest compliance rate. To enter businesses you are required to wear a mask, and businesses get fined if they aren't enforcing that (at least where I am, just south of LA). But once inside the business a lot of them don't enforce the mask rule.

There is no single silver bullet in this fight. Nothing is going to work 100%, even vaccines probably wont. But every little bit helps. There is plenty of data out there that suggests masks can help curb disease spread through several mechanisms. Just because the government says you should wear one doesn't mean you have to be defiant like a teenager and their parents. The government also says you should wear a seatbelt, and not drink and drive. Both are good ideas regardless of if the government said so or not.

---

What area is going to have more compliance than LA? Notice that I didn't say everyone in LA would comply. I only stated that the makeup of the LA area lends itself to higher rates of compliance. Like it or not mask wearing has become political. LA being a more liberal area as well as the fact that the mask ordinance has already been normalized there makes it logical to believe they'd have more compliance than the rest of the country. I find it hard to believe that anywhere in Texas is going to have a higher percentage of people wearing masks than in LA.

---

Seriously? How about an area without the beaches and so much to do? If you are at home, you aren't spreading it. People don't live in So Cal to stay home in the summer. I'd stay home in Texas when it's a million degrees and humid out but when in LA I am never inside except to sleep. It's about opportunity, don't act as if you have any idea beside preconceived politics about CA.

---

Leisure Outside activities aren't the cause of the spread. It's pretty easy to stay away from each other At the beach.

---

No one is talking about what is more or less likely to cause transmission at all anymore. The last we heard of it was the WHO contact tracing study that found something close to zero asymptomatic spread that was met with immediate emotional response that it must be wrong forcing a non-retraction "clarification" statement.

Nearest I can tell, the mask mandate is supported by the notion that someone might transmit the virus a/pauci-symptomatically unwittingly in a community setting and the mask may limit the volume of transmissible virus spewed about by their breathing.

But again, no one will tell us how many people get the virus by being out and about in public doing normal activity in only short duration exposure to others.

CastleRock said:

---

Mask deniers are lower intellectually than flat earthers. At least the latter don't hurt anyone.

Those of you who think masks don't work, do you:

A) not believe that droplets are the main source of transmission
B) not believe that masks essentially stop droplets from expulsion

I still can't believe there are actual adults who believe the above. They have to be mentally handicapped in some way.

---

I think there are legitimate questions to be asked about the overall efficacy of mask wearing in public.

There is is a statistical case to be made that mask wearing on aggregate can have a positive effect on the overall rate of transmission in society (i.e. if X% of the population wears Y% effective masks then the Rt decreases by Z amount). However it is much less clear to what degree mask wearing impacts the overall Rt considering the many non-public vectors of transmission in which a mask mandate is irrelevant.

I'm not necessarily against a mask mandate considering it is one variable that allows some degree of control against COVID-19. However I am against the hysteria induced by COVID-19 and the poor messaging around it at large (including the mask mandate). This messaging has been largely coming from data illiterate politicians and a data illiterate media. The IFR of COVID-19 has turned out to be far less than originally feared with fatalities heavily stratified by age. Instead of discussing this fact (or the falling fatality counts) the media and political focus has turned to rising case counts (oftentimes reported without context, such as the number of tests given). This leaves a data illiterate public unable to parse out the risk that COVID-19 poses them individually.

Ultimately it is unclear how much the mask mandate will help. After all, these mandates are being pushed by the same decision makers who built unused COVID-19 field hospitals based on flawed (sometimes non-deterministic) statistical models. This is a complex, multi-variable problem. I don't understand how people can still speak about it with such great certainty and an unjustified level condescension ("flat earthers").

jeffdjohnson said:

---

CastleRock said:

---

Mask deniers are lower intellectually than flat earthers. At least the latter don't hurt anyone.

Those of you who think masks don't work, do you:

A) not believe that droplets are the main source of transmission
B) not believe that masks essentially stop droplets from expulsion

I still can't believe there are actual adults who believe the above. They have to be mentally handicapped in some way.

---

I think there are legitimate questions to be asked about the overall efficacy of mask wearing in public.

There is is a statistical case to be made that mask wearing on aggregate can have a positive effect on the overall rate of transmission in society (i.e. if X% of the population wears Y% effective masks then the Rt decreases by Z amount). However it is much less clear to what degree mask wearing impacts the overall Rt considering the many non-public vectors of transmission in which a mask mandate is irrelevant.

I'm not necessarily against a mask mandate considering it is one variable that allows some degree of control against COVID-19. However I am against the hysteria induced by COVID-19 and the poor messaging around it at large (including the mask mandate). This messaging has been largely coming from data illiterate politicians and a data illiterate media. The IFR of COVID-19 has turned out to be far less than originally feared with fatalities heavily stratified by age. Instead of discussing this fact (or the falling fatality counts) the media and political focus has turned to rising case counts (oftentimes reported without context, such as the number of tests given). This leaves a data illiterate public unable to parse out the risk that COVID-19 poses them individually.

Ultimately it is unclear how much the mask mandate will help. After all, these mandates are being pushed by the same decision makers who built unused COVID-19 field hospitals based on flawed (sometimes non-deterministic) statistical models. This is a complex, multi-variable problem. I don't understand how people can still speak about it with such great certainty and an unjustified level condescension ("flat earthers").

---

Well put. We're in a space where folks first seek to assume the mantle of moral superiority to deride people they disagree with and enjoy the rush of "I told you so", when their position requires the other to prove a negative.

Meanwhile a fair number of us search about for a trustworthy messenger knowing that we're likely outnumbered by people that are seeking confirmation bias and/or emotionally manipulated.

let me be that trustworthy messenger

there's some evidence masks help - some evidence shows it helps a lot, some shows it helps a little, some shows that it's all in our heads and merely a social signaling bit that reminds you that the pandemic is still ongoing and we are doing what we can to cope

regardless of true efficacy, what masks are is CHEAP. everyone can wear them and whatever benefit we get out of mass adoption, no matter how relatively minor is still outweighed by the collective cost of not wearing them

we also know more about how and where the virus is generally spread. i don't think a mask offers much protection if you're going to be talking in close proximity to an infected person for an hour. it has limits. but if the mask helps drive down the attack rate in casual encounters in public places where the virus can spread uncontrolled geometrically, across a large swath of the population and geography, then it has utility compared to the cost.

combine mask usage with paranoia and keeping your distance and good hygiene should (SHOULD) be able to help mitigate non-epidemic spread

chimpanzee said:

---

cone said:

---

let me be that trustworthy messenger

there's some evidence masks help - some evidence shows it helps a lot, some shows it helps a little, some shows that it's all in our heads and merely a social signaling bit that reminds you that the pandemic is still ongoing and we are doing what we can to cope

regardless of true efficacy, what masks are is CHEAP. everyone can wear them and whatever benefit we get out of mass adoption, no matter how relatively minor is still outweighed by the collective cost of not wearing them

we also know more about how and where the virus is generally spread. i don't think a mask offers much protection if you're going to be talking in close proximity to an infected person for an hour. it has limits. but if the mask helps drive down the attack rate in casual encounters in public places where the virus can spread uncontrolled geometrically, across a large swath of the population and geography, then it has utility compared to the cost.

combine mask usage with paranoia and keeping your distance and good hygiene should (SHOULD) be able to help mitigate non-epidemic spread

---

I get it at that level, but we don't hear a message that says, "masks may or may not make a difference to anyone personally, but it doesn't hurt and it's cheap." I have been wearing one when I go into a store before the order, don't think it's a big deal personally, but I get the push back because instead we hear, "Masks work (full stop), and oh by the way, it shows you care, it's easy/cheap, and we'll fine you if you don't comply".

---

Agree. One of my issues is the fact that we cannot mandate something that "may or may not work, but it's cheap and helps." That's what I honestly feel is happening. We can't close back up, pressure is in the Governor and in the end, this could help silence the side wanting to close back up. But, it's also a civil liberties issue and the potential precedent it sets up. There's no time line, no limitation in terms of what the government can mandate nor the length of time they can mandate it for. So the way some of us on here are celebrating this needs to be tempered with an overall message to our government that they work for us, and we can let you mandate some things, but don't get comfortable.
In the end, I feel it's our decision how we should deal with this, not the government's. We are adults, we can decide what we wear and how we do it. But that is me.

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

SirLurksALot said:

---

HotardAg07 said:

---

Places like Hong Kong and Japan have nearly universal mask adoption and despite way more population density than us and not having a lockdown they were able to avoid an outbreak.

It's the lowest cost lever we have to pull that makes a difference. Wear the mask.

---

Beijing and LA have had mask requirements and widespread adoption yet they are currently experiencing outbreaks. Australia and New Zealand have also done a good job at containment yet don't have mask orders.

It hasn't been proven that masks are the reason Japan and SK have done well. Maybe the fact all 4 countries are islands (SK is practically an island for immigration purposes) and are easily able to control who enters their countries has something to do with their ability to contain the disease.

---

The reason I used Japan and Hong Kong as examples is that their population density is so high and it would apparently be a hot bed for spreading infectious diseases. Australia and New Zealand aren't nearly as densely populated and LA doesn't have nearly the same mask adoption rate. It is over 97% in Hong Kong in Japan.

Look, it probably doesn't mean the virus will vanish if everybody started wearing cloth masks, but it might help 10-15%. If that helps us go from a situation with Rt>1 to <1 (with other mitigating factors) it is worth it. If it doesn't help, then what have we lost? Nothing.

---

If It's not working in LA then it's not going to work anywhere else in America. Out of all the places in this country LA is going to be one of the areas with the highest amount of compliance.

We're losing time. We're going on 4+ months of restrictions and these mask orders are a step in the wrong direction. That's my issue. We're now only a step away from another lockdown.

We're basically just kicking the can down the road until we have an effective vaccine (if there ever is one). Government officials just need to be honest and tell people that these restrictions are going to be in place for the rest of the year. Then we'll see how people react.

---

Exactly. I live here in LA metro and folks minding their own damn business walking around outside will get stared down by folks trying to shame them even though they're nowhere near anyone else; unless you're rioting and looting, then of course it's all good. Every business will refuse service to folks not wearing masks. And yet the count continues to rise and all the idiots in charge out here can think to do is **** down the beaches.

Did anyone actually read the order? It doesnt say what you think it says. Let me highlight the important sentence

Quote:

---

Every person in Texas shall wear a face covering over the nose and mouth when
inside a commercial entity or other building or space open to the public, or when
in an outdoor public space, wherever it is not feasible to maintain six feet of social
distancing from another person not in the same household;

---

You dont have to wear a mask if you maintain distance. You're welcome.

NBC on daily deaths



Somehow you are having more people exposed to covid and fewer deaths....that's a mystery. Maybe...just maybe....those most vulnerable are taking more precautions and the rest of us can go about our lives. Nah...that's crazy talk. My bad.

CASES! You don't get it, do you?

I'm not going to let you distract me from what's most important. # of CASES, dammit!

This back and forth crap isn't solving anything. You know what you call someone who keeps changing their story up? A liar.

planoaggie123 said:

---

Had my first "rejection" this weekend. Potbelly. They tried to stop my wife at the door. We only had 1 mask in the car. I was going to order w/ mask. I told her and kids to go direct to table b/c you can be seated and be ok (apparently sitting doesnt spread the disease but walking does). They said since she walked through w/o a mask we had to leave. Part of my issue was not just with them "enforcing" but their tones / attitudes. My daughter even said "this is ridiculous" as we were leaving which i laughed at.

I guess that is their right to have us leave and do so in the manner they felt best but I honestly never plan to return there.

---

Those pesky rules put into place to help keep businesses open and economy going.....if only all adults would comply.