It's always been around like the anti childhood vaccine movement or alternative medicine etc. The anti vax people have been proved wrong so much over the years you'd think they would acknowledge it, but instead they double down. No one wants to admit they're wrong. It has just become more pronounced with COVID, so even some people that have been reasonable over the years have all of the sudden become irrational in their thinking, I don't totally get it but I have seen it with people I know and they're not stupid people but have bought into crap. They would have never done this in the past.agsalaska said:
I may have already said this on this thread since it is the only one from the Covid board I follow, but I am really surprised how many people are choosing to form their own opinions instead of following their doctor's. How do I know this? Because I have yet to see anyone post anything like 'my doctor said I didn't need it.' Instead people insist that the 'can make their own educated decision.' No you can't. I have the basic concept of bridge building too but I don't go do it. Why? Because I am not a structural engineer.
I am 44, in relatively good health, and our doctor was adamant that my wife and I get the vaccine. Our kids, who are 9 a nd 12, are not currently getting the vaccine not because of anything I read on the internet but because our pediatrician does not currently recommend it. Therefore my wife and I are fully vaccinated and our children are not.
I know several doctors, as I am sure most of y'all do, and as far as I know all of them very much encourage vaccination.
When did we start listening to politicians and talking heads instead of our own doctor's when it comes to health decisions? Seems like this is a very new phenomenon. Not that we always listen. People are still fat and out of shape even though their doctor's tell them it will kill them. But at least getting into shape and eating right can be fairly difficult for some people. This is just a shot.
Who is still getting vaccinated?
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What's funny is it's the opposite of the typical anti vaxxers. Somehow it went from extreme left crazies to extreme right crazies.
Yea this is different. And to ORAggiefan's point, this is a completely different group of people. This is not the typical anti vax people. How many people just on this site have you seen say something like 'I am not anti vax, I choose to make my own decision.' When in reality most of them are saying 'I am choosing to ignore the advice of my doctors this time because of internet.'Irwin M. Fletcher said:It's always been around like the anti childhood vaccine movement or alternative medicine etc. The anti vax people have been proved wrong so much over the years you'd think they would acknowledge it, but instead they double down. No one wants to admit they're wrong. It has just become more pronounced with COVID, so even some people that have been reasonable over the years have all of the sudden become irrational in their thinking, I don't totally get it but I have seen it with people I know and they're not stupid people but have bought into crap. They would have never done this in the past.agsalaska said:
I may have already said this on this thread since it is the only one from the Covid board I follow, but I am really surprised how many people are choosing to form their own opinions instead of following their doctor's. How do I know this? Because I have yet to see anyone post anything like 'my doctor said I didn't need it.' Instead people insist that the 'can make their own educated decision.' No you can't. I have the basic concept of bridge building too but I don't go do it. Why? Because I am not a structural engineer.
I am 44, in relatively good health, and our doctor was adamant that my wife and I get the vaccine. Our kids, who are 9 a nd 12, are not currently getting the vaccine not because of anything I read on the internet but because our pediatrician does not currently recommend it. Therefore my wife and I are fully vaccinated and our children are not.
I know several doctors, as I am sure most of y'all do, and as far as I know all of them very much encourage vaccination.
When did we start listening to politicians and talking heads instead of our own doctor's when it comes to health decisions? Seems like this is a very new phenomenon. Not that we always listen. People are still fat and out of shape even though their doctor's tell them it will kill them. But at least getting into shape and eating right can be fairly difficult for some people. This is just a shot.
I don’t say this in a braggedocious way. But it’s true. I’ve been right about everything.
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
I get what both of you are saying but these people have joined the anti vax people as well. The typical anti vaxxers are also anti this vaccine and have been joined by another group of people that used to be reasonable but now refuse to look at things objectively. They always preface it by I am not anti vax, because they know that those people are loony and don't want to be associated with them but they're EXACTLY the same in their view on this vaccine and refuse to acknowledge facts.
CDC received reports from 47 U.S. states and territories of 4,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Jim VanBeek '85, '99
jvanbeek said:
CDC received reports from 47 U.S. states and territories of 4,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Why is there no similar data for reinfections? (I'm guessing because it doesn't happen with enough #s to even count)
88planoAg said:jvanbeek said:
CDC received reports from 47 U.S. states and territories of 4,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Why is there no similar data for reinfections? (I'm guessing because it doesn't happen with enough #s to even count)
My guess is it's pretty in line with vaccine. The problem is false positives and the garbage that is a PCR test. Much easier to know for sure someone got vaccinated.
Maybe? But I would think symptomatic people who recovered would make headlines (or be counted by the CDC) if they were becoming reinfected in any numbers at all.ORAggieFan said:88planoAg said:jvanbeek said:
CDC received reports from 47 U.S. states and territories of 4,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Why is there no similar data for reinfections? (I'm guessing because it doesn't happen with enough #s to even count)
My guess is it's pretty in line with vaccine. The problem is false positives and the garbage that is a PCR test. Much easier to know for sure someone got vaccinated.
88planoAg said:Maybe? But I would think symptomatic people who recovered would make headlines (or be counted by the CDC) if they were becoming reinfected in any numbers at all.ORAggieFan said:88planoAg said:jvanbeek said:
CDC received reports from 47 U.S. states and territories of 4,115 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Why is there no similar data for reinfections? (I'm guessing because it doesn't happen with enough #s to even count)
My guess is it's pretty in line with vaccine. The problem is false positives and the garbage that is a PCR test. Much easier to know for sure someone got vaccinated.
Neither is being reinfected by a percent. 99% hospitalizations are non vax (and non reported, likely haven't had it) and a higher percent for deaths. I do think we should be getting numbers on natural immunity, but I'm not pretending it's significantly better than vax.
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
Pretending? There is scientific basis for durable immunity in the recovered, in addition to evidence of antibodies. Those things exist as fact. The recovered are protected from reinfection.ORAggieFan said:
Neither is being reinfected by a percent. 99% hospitalizations are non vax (and non reported, likely haven't had it) and a higher percent for deaths. I do think we should be getting numbers on natural immunity, but I'm not pretending it's significantly better than vax.
This.Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
I get the flu shot every year. Through work, I'm vaccinated against rabies, Hep A and Hep B, and a few other things.
Not going to get the Covid vaccine. At least not for another decade or 3.
88planoAg said:Pretending? There is scientific basis for durable immunity in the recovered, in addition to evidence of antibodies. Those things exist as fact. The recovered are protected from reinfection.ORAggieFan said:
Neither is being reinfected by a percent. 99% hospitalizations are non vax (and non reported, likely haven't had it) and a higher percent for deaths. I do think we should be getting numbers on natural immunity, but I'm not pretending it's significantly better than vax.
Pretend may be the wrong word. There isn't evidence one way or the other either is better long term is all I'm saying.
Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
No matter your health or age, you are far more likely to die of Covid than any other thing you are vaccinated for unless you already have natural immunity. It's not disingenuous at all.
ORAggieFan said:Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
No matter your health or age, you are far more likely to die of Covid than any other thing you are vaccinated for unless you already have natural immunity. It's not disingenuous at all.
Would it be fair to say though that the other vaccines went through longer trials, are fully approved by FDA and have long history to prove safety? Can you say that about the current vaccines?
I am not "anti-vacc" but def consider myself cautious and being low risk choose to wait for full FDA approval.
planoaggie123 said:ORAggieFan said:Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
No matter your health or age, you are far more likely to die of Covid than any other thing you are vaccinated for unless you already have natural immunity. It's not disingenuous at all.
Would it be fair to say though that the other vaccines went through longer trials, are fully approved by FDA and have long history to prove safety? Can you say that about the current vaccines?
I am not "anti-vacc" but def consider myself cautious and being low risk choose to wait for full FDA approval.
Full FDA approval is almost guaranteed and will likely come this fall. They filed the paperwork for it in May and it's basically just a bunch of red tape between now and then... If that's what you really care about. The data to justify FDA approval is widely available.
Not really.planoaggie123 said:ORAggieFan said:Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
No matter your health or age, you are far more likely to die of Covid than any other thing you are vaccinated for unless you already have natural immunity. It's not disingenuous at all.
Would it be fair to say though that the other vaccines went through longer trials, are fully approved by FDA and have long history to prove safety? Can you say that about the current vaccines?
I am not "anti-vacc" but def consider myself cautious and being low risk choose to wait for full FDA approval.
Testing and trials for the COVID vaccines was as extensive as anything else released to market, because of the high demand and unusually large use case the trials were able to get done much quicker. (Contrast that a drug for a very specific condition that requires a large amount of time simply to find enough viable test subjects.) Drugs usually take far longer to come to market due to long administrative and approval timelines, not testing timelines.
No new drug has much of a timeline or history with regards to long term safety unfortunately, but there's nothing in the COVID vaccines that does any of the silly things like alter your DNA that some people are throwing around.
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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This has nothing to do with the fact that not getting the COVID vaccine does not mean someone is an anti-vaxxer. It is completely disingenuous to say otherwise. The disease poses zero risk to most of us. I thought that before I had COVID and I know it to be true after the fact. I Didn't miss a day of work (from home) and didn't miss a workout when I had it. It pisses me off that my employer wants me to wear a mask if I am in the office simply because I haven't gotten the shot. It is b/s. That doesn't make me an anti-vaxxer.ORAggieFan said:Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
No matter your health or age, you are far more likely to die of Covid than any other thing you are vaccinated for unless you already have natural immunity. It's not disingenuous at all.
Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
Not really. The mRNA COVID vaccines are some of the most carefully watched and monitored vaccines of all time. There is plenty of transparency both from the FDA, Pfizer, Moderna, etc. as to what hurdles needed to met from a safety standpoint and why. For example, there has never been a case where a vaccine caused a problem that wasn't apparent within 2 months after vaccination. So for the trial, they required every participant be monitored for at least 2 months - meaning most of them were monitored for 4, 5, 6 months. Physically, the fact that vaccines don't cause long term issues makes sense... Why do medications sometimes cause longer term effects? Because they consist of complex chemical compounds that your body may or may not be able to eliminate effectively through natural chemistry. Vaccines are different. The mRNA injected into your body is the same stuff your body naturally produces. That gets completely eliminated from your body within hours of the vaccine in the same wat that all mRNA is. Then your body creates spike proteins which your immune system destroys - the same way it does any virus you catch. So ultimately, the risk of long term health consequences that wouldn't be present as of yet is excessively low, because everything that was a part of the vaccines I took was processed months ago. All that remains is the immune response.
It's important to realize that these vaccines didn't go through the trials faster than any future vaccine could in theory. The difference was that the risk of failure was eliminated by governments. Trials normally can't be run simultaneously because if it fails phase 1 trials you can't afford to be spending money on phase 2 trials. Governments around the world absorbed that risk in order to accelerate vaccine production.
I find it interesting that often people that believe the vaccines were made too quickly are typically Trump supporters, who don't seem to acknowledge that his government provided the resources for the rapid development of the vaccines. It seems like there's some sort of disconnect there. Again, I think the truth is that a lot of people have made it a part of their political identity to show 1.) How unafraid of COVID they are and 2.) That COVID isn't a big deal nationally. The implication that some fear is that if you get vaccinated you are acknowledging that you are both scared of COVID and that it is a problem. So a lot of people are grasping at everything to justify why they won't get the vaccine.
Maybe it should be framed in a different way. I think it's your patriotic duty to yourself and your fellow Americans to get the vaccine. We got access to this vaccine before the rest of the world because of how incredible this country is. The more of us that get this vaccine, the better our quality of life will be, the more opportunities we will have, and the safer society at large will be. These facts are undeniable given the wealth of data on these vaccines and this disease. Getting the vaccine is not a sign of weakness; it's a sign of strength.
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
Gordo14 said:
Getting the vaccine is not a sign of weakness; it's a sign of strength.
Bullsh**. It's a sign that you decided to get the vaccine. That's all.
I agree that they are not anti vaxxer. I think they are a completely different set of people.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
But I would ask the three posters in the last page who chose not to get it if they consulted their doctors on that decision or came to it on their own? Do they usually consult their doctors when making medical decisions or is this normal?
I ask that because I tend to ask my family doctor's opinion on such matters. I may have been under the false assumption that consulting doctors for medical advise was commonplace. But I could be wrong.
I don’t say this in a braggedocious way. But it’s true. I’ve been right about everything.
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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No, I don't have a regular doctor. I'm 39 and healthy. Had COVID and have been doing the follow-up antibody tests and still have them. I don't need a doctor to tell me anything in that situation. Might I get the shot if the antibodies wear off? Sure. But there is zero reason to get it now and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.agsalaska said:I agree that they are not anti vaxxer. I think they are a completely different set of people.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
But I would ask the three posters in the last page who chose not to get it if they consulted their doctors on that decision or came to it on their own? Do they usually consult their doctors when making medical decisions or is this normal?
I ask that because I tend to ask my family doctor's opinion on such matters. I may have been under the false assumption that consulting doctors for medical advise was commonplace. But I could be wrong.
From the last few posts it seems like those who are pro vaccine are quite willing to have a fact based conversation.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
So maybe anti-doctor is a term you would prefer.
fig96 said:From the last few posts it seems like those who are pro vaccine are quite willing to have a fact based conversation.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
In my recent experience deciding to not get a shot is an emotional, not logical, decision (assuming one doesn't already have antibodies). Especially the more someone talks about not getting it.
Put up or shut up
Yep. Ditto except I'm 55. And to the poster who responded to Bass with a 'so you are anti doctor', well, no. I'll go to a doc for specific preventative or illness reasons. Covid wasn't one of those for me, except for receiving the positive test results. I listened to that doctor and had no need to go back.Bassmaster said:No, I don't have a regular doctor. I'm 39 and healthy. Had COVID and have been doing the follow-up antibody tests and still have them. I don't need a doctor to tell me anything in that situation. Might I get the shot if the antibodies wear off? Sure. But there is zero reason to get it now and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.agsalaska said:I agree that they are not anti vaxxer. I think they are a completely different set of people.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
But I would ask the three posters in the last page who chose not to get it if they consulted their doctors on that decision or came to it on their own? Do they usually consult their doctors when making medical decisions or is this normal?
I ask that because I tend to ask my family doctor's opinion on such matters. I may have been under the false assumption that consulting doctors for medical advise was commonplace. But I could be wrong.
Just like Bass I have antibodies and based on scientific information readily available I also know that durable immunity is a thing. I don't see the need to make an appointment and go talk to a doctor when I am not sick and can access information regarding recovering from covid and durable immunity.
Lumping the recovered in with those who are declining the vaccine for other reasons doesn't make sense to me. Thank you to those who acknowledge the difference.
That was not my intention. I understand the difference.88planoAg said:Yep. Ditto except I'm 55. And to the poster who responded to Bass with a 'so you are anti doctor', well, no. I'll go to a doc for specific preventative or illness reasons. Covid wasn't one of those for me, except for receiving the positive test results. I listened to that doctor and had no need to go back.Bassmaster said:No, I don't have a regular doctor. I'm 39 and healthy. Had COVID and have been doing the follow-up antibody tests and still have them. I don't need a doctor to tell me anything in that situation. Might I get the shot if the antibodies wear off? Sure. But there is zero reason to get it now and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.agsalaska said:I agree that they are not anti vaxxer. I think they are a completely different set of people.yukmonkey said:
But if you label someone an "anti-vaxxer", you get to claim the moral high ground and not have an actual conversation.
But I would ask the three posters in the last page who chose not to get it if they consulted their doctors on that decision or came to it on their own? Do they usually consult their doctors when making medical decisions or is this normal?
I ask that because I tend to ask my family doctor's opinion on such matters. I may have been under the false assumption that consulting doctors for medical advise was commonplace. But I could be wrong.
Just like Bass I have antibodies and based on scientific information readily available I also know that durable immunity is a thing. I don't see the need to make an appointment and go talk to a doctor when I am not sick and can access information regarding recovering from covid and durable immunity.
Lumping the recovered in with those who are declining the vaccine for other reasons doesn't make sense to me. Thank you to those who acknowledge the difference.
I don’t say this in a braggedocious way. But it’s true. I’ve been right about everything.
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
-Donald J Trump
-9/22/2025
Great post.Gordo14 said:Bassmaster said:
It is disingenuous to call people who aren't getting the COVID vaccine "anti-vaxxers."
Not really. The mRNA COVID vaccines are some of the most carefully watched and monitored vaccines of all time. There is plenty of transparency both from the FDA, Pfizer, Moderna, etc. as to what hurdles needed to met from a safety standpoint and why. For example, there has never been a case where a vaccine caused a problem that wasn't apparent within 2 months after vaccination. So for the trial, they required every participant be monitored for at least 2 months - meaning most of them were monitored for 4, 5, 6 months. Physically, the fact that vaccines don't cause long term issues makes sense... Why do medications sometimes cause longer term effects? Because they consist of complex chemical compounds that your body may or may not be able to eliminate effectively through natural chemistry. Vaccines are different. The mRNA injected into your body is the same stuff your body naturally produces. That gets completely eliminated from your body within hours of the vaccine in the same wat that all mRNA is. Then your body creates spike proteins which your immune system destroys - the same way it does any virus you catch. So ultimately, the risk of long term health consequences that wouldn't be present as of yet is excessively low, because everything that was a part of the vaccines I took was processed months ago. All that remains is the immune response.
It's important to realize that these vaccines didn't go through the trials faster than any future vaccine could in theory. The difference was that the risk of failure was eliminated by governments. Trials normally can't be run simultaneously because if it fails phase 1 trials you can't afford to be spending money on phase 2 trials. Governments around the world absorbed that risk in order to accelerate vaccine production.
I find it interesting that often people that believe the vaccines were made too quickly are typically Trump supporters, who don't seem to acknowledge that his government provided the resources for the rapid development of the vaccines. It seems like there's some sort of disconnect there. Again, I think the truth is that a lot of people have made it a part of their political identity to show 1.) How unafraid of COVID they are and 2.) That COVID isn't a big deal nationally. The implication that some fear is that if you get vaccinated you are acknowledging that you are both scared of COVID and that it is a problem. So a lot of people are grasping at everything to justify why they won't get the vaccine.
Maybe it should be framed in a different way. I think it's your patriotic duty to yourself and your fellow Americans to get the vaccine. We got access to this vaccine before the rest of the world because of how incredible this country is. The more of us that get this vaccine, the better our quality of life will be, the more opportunities we will have, and the safer society at large will be. These facts are undeniable given the wealth of data on these vaccines and this disease. Getting the vaccine is not a sign of weakness; it's a sign of strength.
If you are relatively young and healthy and choose not to get vaccinated, that's understandable. But if you are in the high risk category for a bad outcome for COVID and still refuse the vaccine, you are nothing short of stupid. I still believe in your freedom to choose whether or not to get vaccinated but you're still stupid.
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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Are there many of those folks who aren't getting it? The people I know who haven't gotten the vaccine are very much like me, young and healthy. In fact, I don't know anyone who is high risk who hasn't gotten it.
You'd be surprised.
It took a lot of discussion with my folks, in their 70s with some underlying conditions, to get vaccinated. My mom kept coming back with anecdotes about friends of theirs who hadn't gotten it and were just fine, despite most of those people falling into higher risk categories.
When I pressed more about why she was reluctant, the misinformation was high. And I suspect that's the case for a lot of smaller town folks who didn't see as much personal impact from COVID as others of us have.
And this isn't directed at you, but I wonder how many loudly professing to be young and healthy are more young than they are healthy.
It took a lot of discussion with my folks, in their 70s with some underlying conditions, to get vaccinated. My mom kept coming back with anecdotes about friends of theirs who hadn't gotten it and were just fine, despite most of those people falling into higher risk categories.
When I pressed more about why she was reluctant, the misinformation was high. And I suspect that's the case for a lot of smaller town folks who didn't see as much personal impact from COVID as others of us have.
And this isn't directed at you, but I wonder how many loudly professing to be young and healthy are more young than they are healthy.
I'm a nurse practitioner at a rural hospital in eastern NC. I've had several high risk patients that have not been vaccinated. Some of them got COVID and it did not go well for them.Quote:
Are there many of those folks who aren't getting it? The people I know who haven't gotten the vaccine are very much like me, young and healthy. In fact, I don't know anyone who is high risk who hasn't gotten it.
AggieUSMC said:
If you are relatively young and healthy and choose not to get vaccinated, that's understandable. But if you are in the high risk category for a bad outcome for COVID and still refuse the vaccine, you are nothing short of stupid. I still believe in your freedom to choose whether or not to get vaccinated but you're still stupid.
The beauty of freedom, right?
Overeating
Not wearing seat belts
Alcohol and drug usage
Unsafe sex practices
Not getting a freely available vaccine
Lots of choice to act stupid in this country!
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