$30,000 Millionaire said:

---

The biggest thing I have learned from the past year and a half is how unbelievably self centered and selfish so many people are.

---

Agreed. Have seen a ton of self-centered politicians and bureaucrats ruin the lives of millions of small business owners and tens of millions of people who lost their jobs due to lockdowns while they never missed a paycheck on the taxpayers dime, all so they could pad their political resumes, go on TV and sell books. Glad you also see how self cantered they are.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

gunan01 said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Lol, what I put into my body is about me and about me only. Nice try though.

---

Just make sure you don't go to the ER or the hospital when you get COVID-19 then. Thanks.

---

What an insane take. Should someone who gets in a car wreck while not wearing a seatbelt not go to the ER? Someone who eats themselves to 400 pounds and has a heart attack? That's not how healthcare works.

---

Does a car wreck put doctors and nurses at risk? Does a heart attack? What about other patients that are around those folks in a waiting room?

Pendragon12 said:

---

then comes into the ER and puts doctors, nurses, and other patients, some of which are immuno-compromised, at risk.

---

If doctors and nurses are vaccinated, why is their health at risk for continuing to treat covid?

I get the burnout factor and the refusal to evacuate hurricane analogy is a good one. Sure they are frustrated, but why is their health at risk if they are vaccinated?

Pendragon12 said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

gunan01 said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Lol, what I put into my body is about me and about me only. Nice try though.

---

Just make sure you don't go to the ER or the hospital when you get COVID-19 then. Thanks.

---

What an insane take. Should someone who gets in a car wreck while not wearing a seatbelt not go to the ER? Someone who eats themselves to 400 pounds and has a heart attack? That's not how healthcare works.

---

Does a car wreck put doctors and nurses at risk? Does a heart attack? What about other patients that are around those folks in a waiting room?

---

Agree. But they should still be treated if they arrive at the ER. The earlier statement said that they should not go to the ER. That is the statement that is being disagreed with.

Pendragon12 said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

gunan01 said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Lol, what I put into my body is about me and about me only. Nice try though.

---

Just make sure you don't go to the ER or the hospital when you get COVID-19 then. Thanks.

---

What an insane take. Should someone who gets in a car wreck while not wearing a seatbelt not go to the ER? Someone who eats themselves to 400 pounds and has a heart attack? That's not how healthcare works.

---

Does a car wreck put doctors and nurses at risk? Does a heart attack? What about other patients that are around those folks in a waiting room?

---

Are they vaccinated? If yes they should have nothing to worry about. If not they made that choice too.

The old "your liberty doesn't matter because I think something is more dangerous than you do" position starts popping up with these covidians. They cannot be reasoned with and are anti science with mask theater, hygiene theater, kids locked down to kill more kids from RSV than covid..but now we should believe it's not shot theater and the shot works.

What's funny is that I actually do think the vaccines work and any negative reaction is statistically insignificant. But I also acknowledge the idiotic pulpit from which the covididians have preached for the last year, and I realize how much good will has been eviscerated because of these scientists and doctors. The next real pandemic is going to be much worse because of the skepticism resulting from these people this time aroundwe will not know who/what to believe.

Quote:

---

now force vaccinations on people for a virus that overwhelmingly impacts older and obese people.

Really makes you think who is the selfish one here.

---

Yep, it's really selfish to be an older person.

Very, very selfish.

aginlakeway said:

---

Pendragon12 said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

gunan01 said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Lol, what I put into my body is about me and about me only. Nice try though.

---

Just make sure you don't go to the ER or the hospital when you get COVID-19 then. Thanks.

---

What an insane take. Should someone who gets in a car wreck while not wearing a seatbelt not go to the ER? Someone who eats themselves to 400 pounds and has a heart attack? That's not how healthcare works.

---

Does a car wreck put doctors and nurses at risk? Does a heart attack? What about other patients that are around those folks in a waiting room?

---

Agree. But they should still be treated if they arrive at the ER. The earlier statement said that they should not go to the ER. That is the statement that is being disagreed with.

---

I understand, and I agree. That statement was not made by a doctor, though. The original issue was with bigtruckguy's post expressing frustration. My posts were in support of that, not in agreement with gunan, as a clarification. And in support of the general analogy of the mandatory evacuation order, which I thought was a good one.

In terms of doctors and nurses being vaccinated, I'm sure the majority of them are. But as already discussed, variants are breaking through the vaccine. So far, it seems symptoms are nonexistent, which is great, but that doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone across the board. Just like COVID seems to affect others completely differently. There are also plenty of folks in the ER or in a hospital who can't be vaccinated, or the vaccine won't give them the same immunity as the typical person. It's the same reasoning for flu shots and other vaccines...those of us who can get them should (and most do) to help increase herd immunity for those folks who can't get vaccinated, or vaccines are less effective.

Yes, yes, I know that the whole inject yourself to protect others bugs the hell out of people, and that's fine. But those who jumped all over bigtruckguy as someone who has dealt with this **** for over year, or like doctors in my family who are worn the hell out...I guess I'm just defending them and talking through all this in support of them.

I don't think any doctor worth their salt would refuse treatment to a COVID positive patient if they refused vaccination, nor would I support it. But I think they have every right to be annoyed and frustrated.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

$30,000 Millionaire said:

---

The biggest thing I have learned from the past year and a half is how unbelievably self centered and selfish so many people are.

---

Agreed. Have seen a ton of self-centered politicians and bureaucrats ruin the lives of millions of small business owners and tens of millions of people who lost their jobs due to lockdowns while they never missed a paycheck on the taxpayers dime, all so they could pad their political resumes, go on TV and sell books. Glad you also see how self cantered they are.

---

First off, you knew what I meant and it isn't this. Second, hindsight is 20/20 and I believe all of those people made decisions that they felt were the best with the information they had at the time. All of them would have handled things differently with current information.

The facts are that both masks and the vaccine work at preventing you from getting Covid and from spreading Covid. It's funny to me that everyone is an expert on every topic these days and think they know more than doctors.

I would have a hard time living with myself knowing I infected someone, especially if the infection killed them. But you do you.

88planoAg said:

---

Pendragon12 said:

---

then comes into the ER and puts doctors, nurses, and other patients, some of which are immuno-compromised, at risk.

---

If doctors and nurses are vaccinated, why is their health at risk for continuing to treat covid?

I get the burnout factor and the refusal to evacuate hurricane analogy is a good one. Sure they are frustrated, but why is their health at risk if they are vaccinated?

---

I work in the Healthcare space on the technology side. I was in a meeting with the Chief Medical Officer of a very large medical system in 2019. They estimated sins of omission and commission cost bore a monetary cost of over 300m$/year.

Sins of omission and commission are essentially human errors in the admission of drugs. We didn't get into the mortality figures.

The root cause as they saw it was number of pharmaceuticals and an overwhelming number of interactions between those drugs and then combined with workload on medical staff in 2019.

When staff is burned out mistakes are made when they are treating seasonal RSV or dealing with a trauma. It was a systemic issue before this. Burn out and turnover can lead to gaps. All contribute to lower levels of care. You don't have to get COVID for it to be a risk.

I'm not a shut down again person, that ship has sailed. Yes taking a vaccine is a personal choice but it has wide ranging consequences. It's a nuanced situation.

There are no "facts" that masks work, in fact there are facts suggesting they don't do anything at all for covid.

Gunny456 said:

---

They found one source to challenge the info that a Doctor actually living it shared with us to try and rebuttal what I said and discredit it.
In the past I tried to share the number of people I personally know or have good honest knowledge of that have died from Covid that do not in anyway fit the worn out " MeeMaw and pawpaw" narrative of they are all old, fat, or sick.
I gave honest true input only to be replied to as " frankly I do not believe you" , " you are making that up" , and even " you are a liar".
To be clear.... I think a person should make his own choice of what he does, I don't really think lock downs and MOST mask worn do a damn thing to help us......but there is solid, no BS fact that the vaccines are about the only tool in our toolbox right now that is really making a difference.
Granted there are risk.... but hell...have you ever read the sheet that comes with a bottle of Bayer aspirin?

---

Again, the problem goes back to messaging. We lied to people about lockdowns and masks. We used them as political tools. We put people out of work. We lied about who Covid affects despite the overwhelming evidence and we punished everyone. So by the time the vaccines came out you had a lot of angry, gunshy people. I was able to parse the data and science and see the vaccines work and are miracles of modern medicine. So I took it. But it's the same reason I blew off masks and lockdowns. No one wants to think for themselves, and no one wants to let go of anything they feel may harm their "side".

And here we are, a year later people are still using anecdotes and emotion when there's ample statistical evidence to drive our personal and community decisions. But no one cares.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

There are no facts that masks work, in fact there are facts suggesting they don't do anything at all.

---

I'm dubious that a cloth mask does much but honestly haven't seen a real study one way or the other. Not saying it hasn't been done, I just haven't seen one.

So the way I see it this thread was derailed yet again but two tropes:

1 doctor posting after a pretty crazy spike In cases and two other docs in different parts of the country saying the same thing. One of those doctors mentioned masks, my assumption on that comment is more mask=metaphor for the whole social distancing thing.

2. All three said the same thing: nearly everyone admitted was unvaccinated. That led to a vent (poorly worded but a vent none the less) about non-vaccinated populations.


So it's now derailed around masks don't work, vaccines are my choice and see they don't work never mind that all three docs said the same thing, the common denominators are non vaccinated folks are clogging their systems.

Every single post by a doc gets derailed by these same tired tropes. You know the saddest things? Multiple folks with AG Tags attacking each other. Not one of the people attacking the doc ever asked how they were doing or how they were dealing with the frustration. It was basically a race to see who could get on the anti-mask or anti-vacc, only d and fat people should worry stump.

It's sad that this is who we are now.

I mean go over to the OB and some puts down their dog and it's a list of man that sucks how are you doing. A doc talks about some horrific stuff they see and it turns Into a rant.

Can you post a source that shows masks work? Everything that has came out recently has said that masks do nothing at all.

Knucklesammich said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

There are no facts that masks work, in fact there are facts suggesting they don't do anything at all.

---

I'm dubious that a cloth mask does much but honestly haven't seen a real study one way or the other. Not saying it hasn't been done, I just haven't seen one.

So the way I see it this thread was derailed yet again but two tropes:

1 doctor posting after a pretty crazy spike In cases and two other docs in different parts of the country saying the same thing. One of those doctors mentioned masks, my assumption on that comment is more mask=metaphor for the whole social distancing thing.

2. All three said the same thing: nearly everyone admitted was unvaccinated. That led to a vent (poorly worded but a vent none the less) about non-vaccinated populations.


So it's now derailed around masks don't work, vaccines are my choice and see they don't work never mind that l three docs said the same thing, the common denominators are non vaccinated folks are clogging their systems.

Every single post by a doc gets derailed by these same tired trope. You know the saddest things? Multiple folks with ash Tags attacking each other. Not one of the people attacking the doc ever asked how they were doing or how they were dealing with the frustration. It was basically a race to see who could get on the anti-mask or anti-vacc, only d and fat people should worry stump.

It's sad that this is who we are now.

---

The first bolded part is what I meant. I wouldn't say it was a metaphor but more of a reference to the semi-lockdown period where people were being more careful about spreading illness.

The way this thread went is a large part of why we're all getting so burnt out. It could also be because I was up until 3:30 last night with a constant stream of patients and got back at it at 0700 today. But at least I got 4 hours sleep in the middle of my 48 hour shift last night. On the last few 48h shifts I've been lucky to get three broken hours of sleep total.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Pendragon12 said:

---

There are also plenty of folks in the ER or in a hospital who can't be vaccinated, or the vaccine won't give them the same immunity as the typical person.

---

Are there, though? My understanding is that almost everyone (99%? ) can be vaccinated. I don't mean to be confrontational, I am questioning my understanding and seeking clarification.

So sorry to hear this. Thanks for your hard work.

aginlakeway said:

---

bigtruckguy3500 said:

---

Saw an 80 year old as well who was positive. Only had one dose, was due for his 2nd when he started feeling ill and a little short of breath. Desats to the 88-90 range when walking, but otherwise doing ok. That first dose probably saved his life.

And yeah, all these young people coming in for viral symptoms, suspected COVID, scared. Time and time again they say they didn't get vaccinated because "I dunno" or because " I don't need it."

Saw a guy in his 50's who elected to not get the vaccine, was recently exposed and sick, came in because his wife is immunocompromised cancer patient and he doesn't know what to do because he thinks he exposed her. Still apparently didn't think COVID was that big of a deal. Of course he tested positive.

If you don't care enough to get the vaccine, don't go to the ER when you get it.

---

So you just think we should let people die?

So does this attitude apply to every disease that can harm you if you don't take precautions?

Like blood pressure? Heart disease? If I don't take my blood pressure meds, and my blood pressure spikes, you don't think I should go to the ER? What's the difference?

---

Arrogant, hypocritical mother f***** have really spread due to covid19.

bay fan said:

---

aginlakeway said:

---

Gunny456 said:

---

Folks can have lots of health issues that they can't help. I know folks that have fought weight problems all their lives. I think big truck is saying what a lot of nurses and doctors who have put their lives on the line for over a year fighting this thing and see a way to stop it but yet Some folks decide not to realize that.

---

OK. So if I don't take my blood pressure meds, and I know that not taking them can make my blood pressure spike, you don't think I should go to the ER if I don't take the meds and my blood pressure spikes? What's the difference?

---

I don't think they are going to catch your high blood pressure, do you? Difference is obvious, weight, blood pressure etc doesn't disrespectfully place healthcare workers at risk, just yourself.

---

If the healcare workers are vaccinated their risk is statistical noise.

They are healthcare workers. Catching something from a patient is one of the known risks of being a healthcare worker. Maybe they should find a new career if they are afraid of patients.

This thread is a perfect example of why TexAgs doctors hardly post on this forum any more.

The politics board posters can't help themselves.

it's an interesting dichotomy that I've noticed when traveling or talking to people from other countries.

Folks in countries with crap healthcare are scared ****less of Covid and are clamoring to get the vaccine, which they have limited access to.

Conversely, you have people in the US who have easy access to the vaccine but don't want it. It's not a stretch to conclude that our confidence in the quality and efficacy of our hospitals is actually hindering our ability to convince more people to get vaccinated.

It might be harder to shrug off the potential effects of getting a rough covid case if you had zero confidence in the hospitals to treat you in the worst case scenario.

Let's not kid ourselves, a lot of vaccine hesitancy at this point is politically motivated and nothing more. And I'm what many would consider an F16 hard right winger.

Me not getting the vax has nothing to do with politics. Covid has a 99.9% survival rate and the vax is new and we don't know of any long term effects of it yet. I know plenty of conservatives that have gotten the vaccine as well but they are in a higher risk category so it makes sense for them.

ETA: why do we not discuss the demographic groups that aren't vaccinating hardly at all. Blacks and Hispanics are not getting the vax hardly at all compared to others and they are at a higher risk. What about all of the illegals crossing over? To me, these groups are the problems, not the conservatives.

Gunny456 said:

---

They found one source to challenge the info that a Doctor actually living it shared with us to try and rebuttal what I said and discredit it.
In the past I tried to share the number of people I personally know or have good honest knowledge of that have died from Covid that do not in anyway fit the worn out " MeeMaw and pawpaw" narrative of they are all old, fat, or sick.
I gave honest true input only to be replied to as " frankly I do not believe you" , " you are making that up" , and even " you are a liar".
To be clear.... I think a person should make his own choice of what he does, I don't really think lock downs and MOST mask worn do a damn thing to help us......but there is solid, no BS fact that the vaccines are about the only tool in our toolbox right now that is really making a difference.
Granted there are risk.... but hell...have you ever read the sheet that comes with a bottle of Bayer aspirin?

---

Your first mistake is visiting forum 666. I am not sure why so many of those posters spend their days monitoring the Covid board to insist Covid is a cold or conspiracy if not to force their politics on others. Why not let people who want to discuss COVID do so in peace without being berated and told we haven't had the experiences we actually have.
I have been told my friends daughter, a 30 year old, marathon running (not fat or sick), transplant nurse who died March 2020 of Covid didn't and recently my favorite poster on here absolutely insisted my daughters room mate didn't get reinfected. What's the point? Go back to 16 since COVID isn't a problem and leave discussion to those who want to discuss it.