I have a feeling Arya will eventually "pointy end" Joffrey

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Is that recurring dream Bran has with following the three-eyed raven into a dungeon about the Lannisters secret? Ravens are messengers and he seems to be chasing it in his dreams.

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Been wondering about the raven myself. It's not the way they portray it in the books but it'd be hard to do so on TV. I think the book readers are just as curious as the non-book readers on this. Sure we know the significance but not how they're going to execute it on screen.

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Didn't Dany's dad burn Ned's brother, father, and do something to kill his sister?

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Aerys II Targaryen, the Mad King and the father of Dany and Viserys, executed Ned's father and brother. Lyanna Stark, who was Ned's sister and Robert Baratheon's betrothed, had been kidnapped by Rhaegar Targaryen, who was Dany's oldest brother and the next in line for the throne. Lyanna's kidnapping and the brutal execution of Lord Rickard Stark and Brandon Stark were the catalyst for Robert's Rebellion. (It seems that one of the surest ways to start a war is to execute a Stark.)

The sequence of events went like this:

• Lyanna is betrothed to Robert
• Rhaegar becomes smitten with Lyanna and kidnaps her
• Lord Rickard and Brandon ride to Kings Landing from Winterfell to demand that Aerys II make Rhaegar return Lyanna
• Aerys II kills Rickard and Brandon for their impertinence
• Aerys II demands that Jon Arryn turn over Ned to be executed too
• Ned, Robert, and the Arryns call their banners and start the war called Robert's Rebellion (or The War of the Usurper if you were on the losing side.)

[This message has been edited by G Martin 87 (edited 6/16/2011 6:20a).]

IBT "stop posting book info and spoilers!"

The other thread for backstory has been dead for weeks. The relationships between the characters have been explained briefly in the series, so none of that is "new" info or spoilers. All of the characters referenced except for Dany are dead now.

OK, thats exactly how it was explained. Except there was a mention of the Greyjoy Rebellion that kinda got thrown in the shows 'history lesson' too that got mixed in.

From what we know the Greyjoys had a war with the Lannisters and the Starks. Greyjoys burned the Lannisters ships at a battle (Theon/Tyrion discuss this) but eventually the Lannister/Stark alliance wins and Theon is a slave/guest/ward of the Starks.

At least it was presented as a Greyjoy Rebellion against Robert or whoever because Tyrion mocked the loser saying it was a stupid rebellion, which Theon gave a bitter look.

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 6/16/2011 9:59a).]

That's correct. Roughly midway through Robert's reign, Lord Balon Greyjoy (Theon's father) tried to lead a rebellion. It was put down fairly quickly by Robert. Theon (just a young child at the time) was warded to Ned to ensure Balon's compliance. Theon was raised with the Stark children by Ned. More than that might fall into the spoiler category.

< non-reader, I strongly distrust Theon and the rest of those unseen Greyjoys. Didn't Theon on Tyrion use the same prostitute? Seems like that might make swiping someone's dagger a rather easy prospect...

Only question in my mind is who he's aligned with? His own family? the Targaryens? Some yet unseen faction? Certainly not the Baratheons, Lannisters or Starks.

[This message has been edited by Aggie_Journalist (edited 6/16/2011 11:14a).]

"midway through Roberts reign"

G-DDAMNIT YOU MEAN HIS 'REIGN' EVENTUALLY ENDS!? SPOILER ALERTS PLEASE...-SSHOLE!

Theon seems to be pretty damn trusted by the Starks, hell he's shooting down ravens and not conspiring against Rob/Starks with the troop movements. Theon saved Brans life with the wildlings.

If I had to guess, he sees himself as a step-brother with no title to the Starks. I am assuming the Greyjoys did not have a daughter they could have married to the Lannisters or Starks for peace so they sent the youngest boy they had. It is more or less what happens to wives in this land, they cannot have lordship over their house so they are basically sold off to other houses and they lose their "roots." At least Theon isnt taking the black amiright?

I just keep waiting for the tokin' black guy to show up.

'Whats a Nubian?'

'Shut the **** up!'

I think that dagger deal was set up by Joffery, didn't he get ***** slapped by Tyrion right before that happened? and he always seems to make rash decisions. Nobody else seemed to have a reason to be pissed at Tyrion...except maybe his father but that seems really unlikely.

Here is my prediction on the dagger. We know Jaime set up the murder attempt on Bran because he has already admitted it to Cersei. I think it was 'the dog' who set up Tyrian. Jaime wouldve used someone else to hire the assassin in case he was captured so it wouldnt lead directly back to him. The 'dog' wouldve been his most natural choice with few trustworthy allies in the north to turn to on short notice. Despite how Joffrey treats him that burned up dude is very loyal to him. I could see him using Tyrians knife to set him up. Not sure on what the motivation would be except to gain favor with Joffrey and Cersei down the road. I know Jaime, being the only one that really cares for Tyrian, wouldnt do that to his brother.

I think you mean The Hound

The reason I don't think the knife was the doing of any Lannister is because it in no way helps the family out. As much as daddy Lannister hates his his imp, he did mobilize for war in response to the imp's capture.

The planting of the dagger has had negative outcomes for every member of the Lannister household.

Imp was captured,
Jamie is captured,
Joffrey is facing a revolt,
etc.

Like the imp said, if the Lannisters were behind the assassination attempt they certainly wouldn't have used a dagger that belonged to one of them.

Theon, being from a rebellious family, continues to be my prime suspect. He still seems far to proud about his family's rebellion whenever anyone talks about it around him.

Someone wanted the starks and Lannisters to fight against each other. Who gains from these two families fighting?

Dagger, war, Ned dead "Who gains from these two families fighting?"

Why the so-called 'previous' owner of the knife. It all points to Littlefinger. He was the only one who 'recognized' the assassins blade, he wants the Starks to fall so he gets Ned's widow, he knows of the Lannisters secret. The moment a raven came to Kingslanding saying Bran 'fell out of a window' he took his opportunity to blame the Lannisters (which he could have done without knowledge of the incest).

Those seem like great points. Littlefinger is just playing puppetmaster I believe as well. Sunday should be great.

Trying to decide what to do between seasons. I am a non-reader... should I 1) read the first book, 2) read ahead in the series, or 3) do nothing.

My first choice is to read the first book to fill in alot of the backstory, etc, that I didn't get or understand with the TV show. But it will be pretty hard not reading ahead as well. I feel it is nice not knowing spoilers for the TV show...

Highly doubt it was Littlefinger, the attack came too quickly after Bran fell. I doubt he had even heard about it immediately and it's unlikely he could've got the orders off fast enough for it to unfold as quickly as it did. It had to have come from someone within Winterfell at the time. Plus, IF the orders actually did come from someone outside Winterfell, they would had to have an accomplice within the city's walls who would have supplied the dagger to the assassin because there is no way the Lannister's let a shady character like that hang around them.

Little finger may have been involved, he certainly disdains the Starks, but I don't think he's after Ned's wife anymore.

Remember what he said about being left with a "scar" by Ned's brother (no visible scars, so where would that scar be...)? And then him not participating with any of the prostitutes? I get the feeling he isn't capable of doing anything with Ned's wife even if she wanted to be with him, if you catch my drift.

I think Littlefinger is, like he said, just out to "****" everyone over. His vendetta is against the entire stark family, and he has no reason to hold allegiance to anybody else.

Littlefinger may be involved in putting things into motion, but I still don't trust that Theon kid...

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(no visible scars, so where would that scar be...)?

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Didnt he tell Ned that his brother gave him a scar from his belly up to his neck?

Guess I'll have to go rematch the lesbian scene to find out. Damn!

somebody on this thread is either very good at making predictions or has read the book and is being a dickhole

AJourn: the redhead asked him to join the girls and he said he is saving himself for someone. I doubt he is a eunuch because that makes men chubby.

Yeah I haven't read the books, but I have peaked over at the other thread for those who have. Some of the predictions on this thread are making me think that somebody HAS read the book and is being an ass. If not....fair enough. You've just got ESP and are in Martin's head with regards to how he writes. If you HAVE read it....please stop being a jerk.

<- has not read. Then again my predictions seem obvious at leas to me. I have a flight to Omaha WHOOP!, I havent quite decided if Im gonna pick up the book for the flight tho.

< Haven't read. I avoided this thread for most of the season because I was afraid of over speculating. I'll step off just in case its me. (I just think of how I'd develop the plot if it were my book.)

I am thinking of getting the book though. The dilemna is that since the books aren't all written either (right?) I'll hit a wall of waiting for more story either way! Stick with the TV show and its at least merely 1 year between seasons, as opposed to reading the books that are out and then waiting 2-3 (or more?) years for the rest of the books to be written.

[This message has been edited by Aggie_Journalist (edited 6/16/2011 6:32p).]

[This message has been edited by Aggie_Journalist (edited 6/16/2011 6:32p).]

Never even heard of the books til the week before the show started. I is gonna feel purty smart if y'all are talking about my predictions. I've made several throughout this thread though so I wouldn't even know which ones you are referring to.


And Littlefinger isn't a eunich. He has made fun of Varys for having his junk chopped multiple times. Since Varys is the master of secrets I'm sure he would have thrown that back in his face already if he didn't have nuts either.

[This message has been edited by aCosmicBandito (edited 6/16/2011 6:47p).]

I got money that says this thread get spoiled.

not trying to scare anyone away from the thread, just issuing a general statement about a certain poster

Bill - I picked up the book today at Target for my flights this weekend

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Never even heard of the books til the week before the show started

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I'm not saying you have or haven't read the books, but I had never heard of them until after I watched the first episode. Eight weeks later I'm halfway through the third book.

LHIOB - I have decided against it. I want to watch the series for what it is. Dont get me wrong I love the concept and will probably love the books but I dont want to ruin it for myself. Some of the folks who have read it were amazed at the "golden crown" but I was WTFOMGLOLing during that scene. (It was rather cathartic) Now I just need to see Joffrey die in a more painful way and the cast would be perfect.

I have not read the books. Just from the way this show is going the obvious seems to never happen. In this case I think the Lannisters being responsible is too obvious. The imp seemed honest in his stance.

The only players to me that can be responsible would be littlefinger and maybe Theon since his role seems minimal right now and whats the point of him being in the story unless for something bigger?

Other players are people at the wall like Snow or Danny. Both of those seem unlikely.

The whole point of this show seems to be "Game of Thrones" where all are playing an ultimate goal for the throne.