Howland Reed knows what happened at the Tower of Joy. There's a reason this guy has been freaking Snufalupagus in the series so far; he knows not only what happened when Lyanna died but the truth of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and probably whether or not Lyanna was "abducted and raped" or ran off willingly with Rhaeger. If R+L=J is true - and if any of it matters anyway - then he will be the one to reveal it all, which is why he hasn't shown up yet despite being one of Ned's most loyal bannermen.

Not really Bill. Just some unexplained things surrounding Bran and possibilities in the future books. No idea where it is going honestly. See what you think.

i was sad that the ToJ scene never made it into the show. i know it would be tough to do, especially without giving spoilers, but the dialogue is so badass

But still even if R+L is true, did Ned sire a bastage with Wylla? He is reported to have given her a bag of silver to raise the child before continuing on with Robert's Rebellion (far before the ToJ ever could have happened).

I suppose the Wylla story could be true and the kid died or is still out there accounted for.

Any idea whose death Bran saw at the feet of the heart tree.

Pretty sure that vision was from the ancient, ancient past.

Agree with OP, the tree was small and young then with no others around, I think it was from the time of the first men.

Episode 1 will be rebroadcast on HBO tonight at 9PM, with each further episode to follow weekly until the season 2 premiere.

It is known!!

Bill,

Something VERY important is to read all of the prophecies of Dany in the House of the Undying. Figuring all of those out is key to putting all the books together and seeing the direction.

Howland Reed is also probably the most important character not revealed, he simply knows everything and he will likely not come out until the 7th book. Not only does he know of the Tower of Joy and the Knight of the Laughing Tree, remember that Robb Stark also sent Maege Mormont and Gilbert Glover to him with the knowledge of Jon's legitimacy. He also has Green Dreams and sent his children to protect Bran.

GRRM is a brilliant writer. Every plot point eventually is set to reconnect and the prophecies are huge. He is an expert at making some detail or character seem unimportant and they end up being crucial.

Im not totally convinced Dany comes out on top at the end of book 7. And Im getting to the point where I find her as stupid as Joffrey and I want her to die. She isnt smart enough to win the throne, she is only as good as her counsel and that is often spotty. I still think it comes back down to that face off between Varys and Littlefinger from season 1. Each one sees himself on the throne and I dont see this coming down to "whose secrets are best" nor "whose gods are best" It will all come down to who can play the game best.

We still have Euron's horn that commands dragons. We still have the stone dragon to emerge from Dragonstone. We still have to see the citadel's roll.

Dragons are good against your enemies, but they are no good against your friends. In the end, I dont see one white walker making it over the wall. If they do, that means Jon fails (dies).

quote:

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"To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."
Asshai, Dany thought. She would have me go to Asshai. "Will the Asshai'i give me an army?" she demanded. "Will there be gold for me in Asshai? Will there be ships? What is there in Asshai that I will not find in Qarth?"
"Truth," said the woman in the mask. And bowing, she faded back into the crowd.

---

This is only one part of it but I dont see Dany ever going to Asshai. More importantly the Prophecy never says she will win the throne.



[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 1/27/2012 12:28p).]

I tried to watch this last night, and I did enjoy the gratuitous nudity before I feel asleep.

Tried and failed?


Tried and died.

Will she win the throne? Possibly, but trying to predict Martin is just craziness. The prophecies are the best guide but they are tricky as well, often when you think you understand them you don't until later as they are highly symbolic.

For instance, here are a few wild thoughts of mine:

I think Tyrion is actually the son of Aerys Taergaryen. The assumption has always been that his father treated him like a ******* because of his dwarfism but there is some indication that Aerys liked Tywin's wife and they he visited his castle while King. Tyrion is also obsessed with dragons and dreams of riding them.

The dragons have 3 riders, one is Daenarys but who are the other 2? Tyrion is possible and Jon Snow is the most likely to be another, as he is likely to end up marrying Dany because of the prophecy of the "blue flower in a wall of ice" describing her 3rd husband. I also think Jon is R+L and he is Azor Ahai.

The key to the beginning of all the conflicts was that Tournament at Harrenhall with the Knight of the Laughing Tree and later with the Tower of Joy. That is why I think Howland Reed is one of the most important characters and we still know so little about him.

I also think Bran's storyline is going to get interesting and wonder if he will warg a dragon and it will be interesting to see what he does with his powers.

So many other loose ends out there but to me those are the most interesting. Oh, and I really hope Ramsay Bolton dies a really nasty death.

I also think Aegon is a false prince that may be the son of Ashara Dayne and one of the Starks (likely Brandon though possibly Ned). I think Ashara is the Septa that is with him.

quote:

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I still think it comes back down to that face off between Varys and Littlefinger from season 1. Each one sees himself on the throne and I dont see this coming down to "whose secrets are best" nor "whose gods are best" It will all come down to who can play the game best.

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Although I'm sure Littlefinger wouldn't turn down the Iron Throne if it was offered to him, he has no legitimate claim to it. Varys has said repeatedly that his motivation is "for the good of the realm," not the throne itself. He also has no claim to the throne, is a eunuch (so there's no possibility of an heir), and he's base born. Neither Varys nor Littlefinger would ever get any support to be King.

Isnt one of Tyrion's eye's purple? (A Targarygen trait.) If Jon Conningham's Targaryen is #2, Snow or Tyrion is a decent bet. I never thought about Tyrion before but it would make a great deal of sense why Tywin hated Tyrion's lecherous actions. But Tyrion is hurt by fire (fire game with Shae). IDK.

quote:

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he has no legitimate claim to it.

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Aegon the Conqueror had no claim, he took it because he could.[/Jorah Mormont]

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 1/27/2012 6:43p).]

Also, as we've learned with Cersei, the one who sits on the chair isnt always the one running things.



My biggest problem with R+L, and most of the prophesies, is that GRRM has benched them in the TV show. How will the show go 5 seasons then say "oh btw Snow, you are Lyanna's son." Now that Eddard is dead, you really cant have the Tower of Joy dream come up. They can still do the flashbacks of Ed's father and brother dying. Tyrion's chapters actually go into better detail than Ed's, remember Tyrion internally discussed the the burnings and keeping away that type of amusement from Joff.

Aegon the Conqueror had an army behind him. Varys has a network of children spies. Granted, they're sneaky and mean. But Varys has no chance of conquering anything without support from any of the noble houses. Varys already has as much power as he's going to get, which is already huge. Seeking the throne would go against Varys' nature anyway.

What was the point of growing that network in the East and then the West. Why have all that ambition to be a beta-male?

What Varys shouts at Ned in the dungeon might as well be commanding Ned to play his part, go along with the plan. It was clear Varys didnt want war because he needed lil Aegon to mature before Illyrio would put the ball rolling. In the episode Ilyrio says "we need more time." "All this is happening too soon."

I would most enjoy having a sellsword deliver "Arya Stark" to Ramsay Snow. When he takes her to bed she gives him a poison that paralyzes him but keeps him conscious. She then reveals herself to be the real Arya Stark and she flays him alive as he suffers the brutal death he deserves. She then rips out his heart and manhood and feeds it Nymeria who she has been reunited with.

I don't see Littlefinger or certainly Varys ever being King or wanting to be. They would much rather have a puppet they can control. They will never be able to get the support necessary to actually formally rule and they are smart enough to realize it.

I also wouldn't worry too much about the eventual plot of the book and the TV series. Each season there will be more discrepencies and that can't be helped. For instance Blackfish was ignored and there are rumors that Ramsay Bolton is being left out somehow. They also apparently can't get a location for Riverrun so that is going to be less emphasized. I still think they will be similar but have resigned myself that they will be different in the end and new characters and scenes will be created for the TV show (such as the ***** that went from Winterfell to Kings Landing).

I wouldn't hold your breath on Martin pushing to finish the books any faster than he wants to. This is his masterpiece and he isn't worried about anything except telling the story he wants and earning his title of "The American Tolkien". He has something truly great and he isn't going to rush it.

quote:

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(such as the ***** that went from Winterfell to Kings Landing).

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What do you mean by this? Nymeria biting Joff does happen in the book.

Since GRRM is an EP I expect him to say "ya cant do that" every once in a while. It has already been said that he helps with the scenes that were added to the cannon. They need GRRM to pull off a round story.

They said they were worried about too many actors being introduced at once for season 1, and one can assume it will be hard for the war of the 5 kings. In all reality what does Blackfish add to the Arryn scenes? Very little. Of course they will have to address Riverrun, Jaime has to negotiate with the Tullys at some point.

he's talking about Ros, a character created entirely for the show. i don't really mind her, she's been used wisely enough for sexpositions (tyrion, theon, pycelle, littlefinger) and will probably replace Alayaya (and whoever else tyrion uses to hide Shae in book 2)

Howland Reed... I'll laugh when GRRM kills him off.

She seems like a Mcguffie, just a tool used by filmmakers to move the story along. But in this case it reveals Theon, Littlefinger and Pycelle in a way that GRRM couldnt with his POV writing.

How else would you know the Littlefinger has been rather abstinent since his time at Riverrun? How else would you know that Pycelle is leading a double life?

I recognize the usefulness of the created and voided characters, I just look at the books and the TV series as 2 different things. The plot and complexity of the story and characters are simply too complex even for 10 hours of film per book.

I do think the TV show has a chance to be the best ever for HBO which would be an incredible statement.

NEW TRAILER!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOzXsqoJhtE

word-for-word quote from the book! SO BADASS ZOMG AHHHH

Sure, all the backstories about Robert's Rebellion and such are much of a mystery to the TV viewer, GRRM may want it that way so they buy/read the book. But Im beginning to think they will make note of the details about some of the POV characters in other scenes.

Look at Tyrion's first battle. In the book he took the left flank and protected the river; that whole fight from the moment Tyrion woke up till his father telling him they won took 2.5 mins of screentime. That was a whole chapter in GoTs.

Look at Catelyn's trip to the Vale. Sure they follow the book pretty well up to the Bloody Gate, they sure as hell didnt waste 15 pages describing the trip from the gate to the base of the castle, then describing the bastrd girl who tends the mules then describe the ascent for Catelyn and the basket-ride for Tyrion, then the Catelyn having to wait until Lysa will receive them. blahblahblah.

Pages:
GoTs: 694
CoK: 708
SoS: 973 (Two seasons, presumably everything up to the Red Wedding, then everything after)
FfCs: 753
DwD: 1040

The content for FfCs and DwD will all happen in realtime for the show, none of this geography splitting nonsense. I assume that will still be 2 seasons worth because it is just telling what happens from new POVs, but would anyone really care if they take 3 seasons for those 2 books? 10 more hours of content and added POVs would be amazing.

So the end of the 5 books will either be 6 or 7 seasons. 60 or 70 hours should be plenty of time to tell this story. You need to remember this is equivalent of 30-35 two-hr movies. If there are some details you think they miss, you are nitpicking.

And there's two more books. If hbo stays with it, it could easily be 10 seasons.

Khalessi!!!

"In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rch man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. 'Do it,' says the king, 'for I am your lawful ruler.' 'Do it,' says the priest, 'for I command you in the names of the gods.' 'Do it,' says the rich man, 'and all this gold shall be yours.' So tell me- who lives and who dies?"

just watched a couple more times - so much to take in

i noticed they have sansa's humiliation in there...that was tough to read about, i wonder what sort of reactions it'll get

quote:

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Varys smiled. 'Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more no less.'
'So power is a mummer's trick?'
'A shadow on the wall,' Varys murmured, 'yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.'

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uni...every story needs a villain. Until the Winter is here, Joffrey will have to do.

"I dont want someone brave, handsome, and strong; I want Joffrey!"



I really fear they will tame down the Boltons. I doubt they will show a flayed finger. And idk if they will show Jeyne's wedding night.

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 1/30/2012 1:12a).]

jeyne's wedding night was probably the most uncomfortable scene i've ever read in a book