I wonder if winter will affect the southern areas like Sunspear

The 3ec is showing bran the present situations through westros, things he can't possibly see or know. At least that's what I got from his first vision, him flying over the land seeing all these things, before HR even woke up out Of his coma

Spoiler Free aDwD review is here!

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/07/winter-is-almost-upon-us-george-rr-martins-a-dance-with-dragons-spoiler-free

They've casted Brienne

http://grrm.livejournal.com/227044.html

just came here to post that!

I'm kind of okay with this one... but I always pictured Brienne very large - as in eastern European big boned. If they can get Gwendolyn to gain a bunch of weight, that will help.

Personally, I don't think she's ugly enough

I read through lots of the wiki's yesterday now i can't wait to get through the books... the waiting for the last two is gonna be hard though.

she's not only big in the book, but fast too, so they have to find someone who is tall and somewhat large for a woman but also agile enough to pull off the fight scenes

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Personally, I don't think she's ugly enough

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in that picture maybe not, but movie makeup can do magical things. i think she'll be perfect, the height in particular is good

How tall is Gwendolyn?

6'3"

Chyna.

I don't think they'll have too hard of a time making her look pretty massive.

Here she is on the right, next to her costars.

Hard to imagine, but she's only an inch taller than Maria Sharapova.

MUCH more pleased with this decision now

I'd hit it (utilizing a stepladder).

I was anxiously awaiting the series on HBO but had never read the books and really wasn't sure what to expect. The first episode almost lost me early on and I was thinking this was going to be a let down. By the end of that first episode I was intrigued. By the 4th episode I was completely hooked. After the 6th episode I ordered all 4 books and thought I would read the first one to get some background. Very quickly I realized I couldn't rest until I finished all of them which I did in a few weeks. Now I can't wait for ADWD but am anxious because I know the wait for the next book could be years.

I wasn't much of a fan of the Brienne character and after how she ended up I was more frustrated. It just felt like way too much time was spent on her when it went basically nowhere. Of course I guess that is part of the beauty of Martin in a way, the plots are so complex and you never know if your assumptions will be a dead alley or how it will be which is what makes it so addicting. It felt like AFFC was really just a setup for ADWD, at least that is my hope and from reading the spoiler free review that appears to be the case.

I think they have done a great job with the TV adaptation and it is really interesting having read the books now. I'm somewhat forgiving that they have to make adjustments to the TV adaptation though there are a couple of things I was surprised by. I wish they wouldn't have gotten Tyrion knocked out at the beginning of the battle, I liked in the book how he handled himself and it seemed to make him grow as a character. I also don't know how they will rectify Shae being his "lady at court" or whatever they called it when it as very important to the storyline that she was a mystery to everyone but Varys right up until Tyrion's trial. Still, those are minor.

The other problem I am really having is I finished the last book on vacation and then decided to read my old reliable Stuart Woods and Clive Cussler books. After reading Martin those books were just too boring and predictable. Has anyone read the early Martin books? Are they in the same league?

From what I have read regarding ADWD, it seems that there will be a large amount of overlap with AFFC.

When they do these books in the TV series, I am not sure how they will handle this. Will the incorporate the storylines so those two seasons are more linear? Will they make one season focus on a set of characters or storylines like the books?

The first three books work out pretty well for three seasons without a ton of tweaking, especially if they will give them 12 episodes.

I haven't read any GRRM other than a song of ice and fire but folks I know who have, say his other stuff is doesn't really touch it.

Saw an article today that Martin confirmed there will be 7 books in the series total and that he won't even begin book 6 until next year. I just hope he is taking care of himself, dude is 62 and if he is taking 5 years per book that makes him pretty old. It will also be interesting how they handle when the series catches up. They may stretch some of the books into 2 seasons or something like that. Otherwise he will have to finish both books in about 4 years or so considering the book will have to be completed before they can write the screenplay and film it. Of course HBO has a habit of going a long time between seasons as their series mature so who knows.

They can't make a season based on AFFC. It would almost be like a spinoff series to most viewers without Tyrion, Jon, or Dany (not to mention Bran, Theon, Davos, Stannis who become pretty major chracters)

[This message has been edited by JJxvi (edited 7/11/2011 9:44a).]

Yeah I cannot see how they are going to be able to smoothly relate the material from AFFC and ADWD in a season like I think they have with Thrones and will do with Kings and Swords (and even with those two they will tweak it some).

they'll likely combine the two books into two chronological seasons. the idea of parallel time periods in the books was annoying enough to readers, it'd irritate and confuse the hell out of tv viewers

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The first three books work out pretty well for three seasons without a ton of tweaking, especially if they will give them 12 episodes.

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GRRM has stated that he expects Storm of Swords to span two seasons.

Personally, I feel like they're going to have to condense that into one season or do what they did with the Sopranos and Entourage where they had a part 2 to a season in a shorter amount of time than a regular season. If you start dragging this out too long, then all your young main characters will get too old for their parts.

I think they could get swords into one season especially if they went to 12 episodes.

I read that they want to beef of Robb's role in season two just to set up swords so maybe they are splitting it to do just that.

It might be worth it to start filming some of these seasons back to back just to deal with the age issues.

Frankly, I wish they could find a way to get more of the history of westeros into the series.

I thought it was well done in the books but I understand the limits of the series.

I seem to be stuck on GoT today with the book release tonight so it made me think of a few bigger thoughts on the first season and how it adapted to the screen:

Overall it is an outstanding adaptation that accomplishes more than you could expect from such a complex show. The best thing is the casting is tremendous, especially Ned, Arya, Dany, Tyrion, Khal, and Varys (a character I really like that seems to get forgotten about, just as he does in the book).

Here are my negatives though:

No Whispering Wood scene. I understand the dollar limitations but I really wanted to see Robb ride into battle with his direwolf tearing up some folks. I think it is important for why Rob was seen as such an imposing figure and added to his lore and why he was made King of the North. Also would have enjoyed seeing the Jaime capture scene. The way it came off with just the end scene with Robb saying he wouldn't fight Jaime made Robb look smaller than I think he is.

No Tower of Joy scene. I also understand the difficulties it would have presented because it would have introduced several characters that may or may not be around for several seasons but that was a really important sequence. Would love to have seen Arthur Dayne and the drama of the 3 strongest of the Kingsguard along with a mysterious image of Lyanna saying "Promise me..." I hope that somehow the tale gets retold by Howland Reed in a future book/season and they make this scene, even moreso because it has to have huge significance.

The Littlefinger lesbian scene was weak and actually took away from the story. In the books Littlefinger waits a lot longer before you start to understand just how big his plans are and combined with his Varys conversations (which I like) it is taking steam out of big surprises (like what happens at the end of SoS). The scene also seemed long and out of place and certainly it isn't in the book.

The Pyrcelle sex scene also is puzzling to me. It doesn't really fit his character in the book unless something new is going to be revealed. He just gets older and weaker as time goes on and there is no indication he is really in great physical shape, though he does like the ladies.

I'm ok with them emphasizing Renly and Loras being gay but I don't like them coming accross as wimpy. Renly in the books is a smart guy with guts. Renly in the show is a wimp that is scared of blood and needs Loras to tell him what to think. Loras also just doesn't seem believable to be as strong of a knight that he is.

They need to add a scene to explain the differences between the religions. They are really going to need to do this at the beginning of the 2nd season or else it will really get confusing to the TV watcher. They have talked about the "old gods" of the North to an extent but very little about "The Seven" and that is going to be really important. They could also do a better job of showing some of the geographic differences and maps, mainly in relation to strategy. They will have a great opportunity at the beginning of Season 2 with the Map Table in Dragonstone (can't wait to see Dragonstone btw).

I think they were smart to cut ToJ

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No Tower of Joy scene.

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i feel like there were a few valid reasons that they left this out

1) they really haven't explained the kingsguard that well in the show. we do get barristan's dismissal scene (which was well done imo), but even then he claims "i am a knight" etc., never really says anything about his duty to his Sworn Brotherhood. i love those epic lines from the ToJ flashback as much as anyone ("The Kingsguard does not flee. Now or then." <chills>, but without really understanding the legacy of the order, the viewers wouldn't quite get it

2) there's a ton of details to support R+L=J, with Lyanna's bed of blood, blue roses, and "promise me" in the ToJ scene being chief among them. it's easy to be extremely vague with this stuff in text, but tougher to show it on TV without it being obvious that she was giving birth. with that knowledge in hand, as well as the viewer's knowledge that jon's parentage is a mystery Ned wants to keep secret, they'd probably all figure it out

3) as a whole, the series seems to be geared towards minimizing the romanticism that the books use (albeit sparingly). guys like the Sword of the Morning and the White Bull just don't really fit with the theme the producers decided to go with, at least imo

4) the show hasn't used flashbacks to explain things at all, and the only dream sequence was Bran's very simplified 3-eyed-crow dream

5) most importantly, it'd just confuse the viewers who are already trying to keep up with the amount of characters and backstory. again, this isn't a big deal in the books because you can fit more in text and can reread a passage very easily, but to have a scene whose relevance still wouldn't be revealed for another 4+ seasons would just be offputting to the casual viewer

my two cents

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The Pyrcelle sex scene also is puzzling to me. It doesn't really fit his character in the book unless something new is going to be revealed. He just gets older and weaker as time goes on and there is no indication he is really in great physical shape, though he does like the ladies.

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Him being with a hooker or his little monologue there? He is with a hooker when Tyrion comes to throw him in the dungeon in Clash of Kings and the monologue seemed to fit his character, at least in my mind

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I'm ok with them emphasizing Renly and Loras being gay but I don't like them coming accross as wimpy. Renly in the books is a smart guy with guts. Renly in the show is a wimp that is scared of blood and needs Loras to tell him what to think. Loras also just doesn't seem believable to be as strong of a knight that he is.

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Definitely agree with this, especially just recently rereading all of Renly's scenes. He definitely comes off as a much stronger, more intelligent man in the books. It seems like they're playing off the gay think a bit too much in the show.

Edit: does hooker work against the filter?

[This message has been edited by bluefire579 (edited 7/11/2011 1:22p).]

I understand why they didn't do the ToJ scene but I still miss it. I really like the general storyline that seems to grow later in the books that shows how there were more men of real honor and especially the Kingsguard. My fear is the Kingsguard starts to intermingle with the City Watch, especially once Joff starts putting some slugs on it. I agree it would have been really hard and complex but when I think of the Littlefinger lesbian scene for instance and think about what a waste of screen time that was I would have loved to see ToJ. I also think they could have just shown Lyanna's face calling out to Robb without the bed. It would be complex and high risk because some viewers would be lost or frustrated with the seemingly "dead" storyline. Still, I would love to see those characters, as well as an image of Rhaegar and the Harrenhall Tourney at some point in a future season. I really can't wait to see if we meet Howland Reed in the next book and if he isn't used to start to connect some dots, though it wouldn't surprise me to see them wait until Book 6 to do so with the way Martin writes.

The criticism of the Paycelle scene wasn't that he was with the hooker it was that he was doing all the stretching and looking 20 years younger all of a sudden. That just didn't make sense to me.

Another quirk I am concerned about is where they are going with Shae's character. She seems much stronger and smarter in the TV show than the book and she seems to have a much greater control over Tyrion than in the book as well. It will be interesting to see where they go with that to make it work for the next 2 seasons.

I know I am nitpicking, overall it's been fantastic.

Scenes from the book they interpreted perfectly:

Dragon birth at the end
The Golden Crown
Ned's execution
Tyrion slapping Joffrey
The trial by combat at The Eyrie
Jon talking to Maester Aemon
Khal's speech to get his son "The Iron Chair" was actually better than the book imo
Every scene with Arya and Sirio, esp the first and last
The scene with Greatjon where he gets his fingers bitten off

Added scenes that helped the storyline:

The Robert and Cersei conversation
The first Littlefinger and Varys conversation
Viserys in the bathtub with the slave
Jaime's conversation with Jory
Adding the fight scene with Jaime and Ned instead of having an accident
The added Theon scenes with the hooker and the wildling girl really showed his personality

The only two "big scenes" that I thought came out a bit flat were the "Kind of the North" scene and when Arya kills the stableboy, they were both ok but not as dramatic as the book.

One last thing on the Renly bit. I thought it was a shame they cut his lines in the confrontation scene with Joffrey in front of Robert where he basically makes fun of Joff for getting his butt kicked by a girl. The Renly in the show seems way too timid for that.

ADWD coming in by UPS to me tomorrow. Can't wait!

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JJxvi
posted 1:54p, 06/06/11



IMO he omitted it because there is a faction of lunatics that think Syrio Forel is actually still alive and he wanted to keep stringing them along.


cainer
posted 2:53p, 06/06/11



He is still alive dangit!!!!

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It is known.

ADWD happens at the same time as AFFC. So it season 4 could presumably, contain all characters.
Also, I hope Martin has used this time to begin work on book 6, although I'm afraid his attention might be on the screenplay for the tv series.

he's already said that he won't make book 6 his main focus until the end of this year, which is understandable given the fact that he's got work on season 2 to do and has probably wore himself out during this final push for ADwD

he's also said before that some of the material for The Winds of Winter (book 6's title, i'm pretty sure) has already been written down in some form, so it'll probably be easier to get a jump on that than it was for Dance