*** MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE *** [Staff message on OP]

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veryfuller
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12:58p, 11/1/23
Staff
AG
It seems like they still haven't learned why this stuff isn't work?

The OG is good because the CHARACTERS. The movies focused on their journey's and the plot connections were limited (mostly post-credits). Since Endgame, it seems like the quality has dropped because they are bringing in characters without really developing them. Here is this character and this one and this one, BOOM. They are bringing them in to check off boxes but aren't crafting stories for them that make us, the audience, really care for/connect to them.

The things that have worked well (WandaVision, Ms. Marvel (IMO), Loki (to some degree), Spider-Man: NWH) have worked because the characters have been the focus. A lot of the other stuff has been plot focused or used to introduce important story elements/worlds/information/etc (Looking at you DS2 and Ant-Man 3).

So, bringing back the OG is a huge mistake, IMO. Let those characters have their endings and create stories for the new characters that work. Then, when you get buy-in again, start to connect those stories. Everything doesn't have to have a connection right away. These characters are in the same universe, we know that, let them live their lives without having all the plot connections all the time.
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Quinn
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In reply to Quinn • 1:16p, 11/1/23
AG
Quinn said:
What do you think is the main reason that they can't just recast Kang? Wouldn't that be easier than rewriting/replanning the next group of movies?
I actually read the article and found an answer to my own question:

Quote:
Recasting Majors is also an option, as Feige did when he replaced Terrence Howard in "Iron Man 2" with Don Cheadle. In fact, Marvel isn't afraid to change direction, even after making splashy announcements. "Armor Wars" was first unveiled as a series and is now being developed as a feature, while the studio's push to adapt the comic book "Inhumans" into a feature filmgenerated headlines but is now dormant. (The now-defunct Marvel Television mounted an "Inhumans" TV series in 2017 that ran for one season on ABC.)

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BowSowy
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In reply to redline248 • 1:37p, 11/1/23
AG
redline248 said:

Interesting thoughts. Why does it feel like Marvel hasn't promoted Sam as the Captain America harder? I think in general audiences really like his character.
He's a fine secondary character, but I don't think he really moves the needle as a primary character. Especially because there'd always be comparisons between him and Chris Evans' Captain America.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to BowSowy • 1:43p, 11/1/23
AG
Just said this exact same thing to a buddy of mine.
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The Porkchop Express
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2:23p, 11/1/23
AG
Terrence Howard comes full circle as Kang?



Seriously though, they should have not done the BW movie, as much as I love David Harbour. DS2 and NWH both should have found space for some sort of Kang interplay since they both dealt with the multiverse.
They should have found some way to shove Shang Chi into Black Panther 2 to get our new heroes working together and gotten Doctor STrange involved in a much better Thor 4 since those 2 characters were really good together in Ragnarok. Captain America should be Sam and Bucky with an assist from Spider-man to get back to their great dynamics from the airport fight in civil war.

Thor 4 definitely should have had some mystical - something's wrong / incursions plot to ramp us up to Kang in Antman 3 and beyond. But c'est la vie. Also, get Daredevil's ass in another movie ASAP.

Put me on board with the prediction that if they do stick with Kang, they definitely drag some version of Tony Stark out of a different reality to help with some problem or final fight, and then RDJ goes back to sleep on his giant pile of money.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:45p, 11/1/23
AG
Weirdly, I enjoyed BW way more than pretty much every other phase 4 movie except GOTG 3.

Not sure why, as it's the prime example of inconsequential, but I just think the family dynamic really worked for me, and the final action scene with the falling station.
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CowtownAg06
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2:51p, 11/1/23
AG
I liked BW and Shang Chi.
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Whos Juan
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3:11p, 11/1/23
AG
Shang Chi was fun as hell.

Simu Liu brought a ton of charisma to the role and I feel like Marvel's really missed on the follow through because I don't see anything with him involved on the slate until maybe Kang Dynasty, and who the hell knows if that'll even happen.
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TCTTS
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In reply to redline248 • 3:23p, 11/1/23
AG
redline248 said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Bringing back IM and BW is a double-edged sword.

It would exacerbate the problem that the MCU feels weightless, with little to no consequences for just about anything.

On the other hand, they desperately need an OG to head up the Avengers, cause the universe feels totally directionless right now.
Interesting thoughts. Why does it feel like Marvel hasn't promoted Sam as the Captain America harder? I think in general audiences really like his character.

Tangential question: what is the future for Spiderman?

Sam will be in two massive MCU movies next year - Captain America: Brave New World and Thunderbolts. Both of which would have come out earlier if not for Covid and the strikes. So they at least had a plan to promote him harder/sooner after The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

As for Spider-Man, all current signs/rumors point to them shooting the fourth entry toward the end of 2024, for release in either late 2025 or the first half of 2026.
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TXAG 05
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 3:25p, 11/1/23
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Weirdly, I enjoyed BW way more than pretty much every other phase 4 movie except GOTG 3.

Not sure why, as it's the prime example of inconsequential, but I just think the family dynamic really worked for me, and the final action scene with the falling station.


Agreed. Out of all the phase 4, black widow is definitely up towards the top. Spider-Man was good, but didn't love it like almost people did. Still think it would have been better if they kept the villains from the other movies a secret, although don't know how they could have. Shang Chi was fun, but don't ever need to see it again. Same for Guardians, it was good, but feel no need to ever see it again, unlike 1 and 2 which I can watch anytime they are on.

Black Panther, Thor, and Doctor Strange were a struggle to get through.
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TCTTS
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 3:26p, 11/1/23
AG
The Porkchop Express said:
Quinn said:
What do you think is the main reason that they can't just recast Kang? Wouldn't that be easier than rewriting/replanning the next group of movies?
I don't know enough about the law and contracts, but if they recast him and then Majors was found innocent, it seems like they'd be getting murdered in the court of public opinion (Marvel fires innocent black man) and have themselves an ugly lawsuit to boot. And whoever replaced him would be dancing around the issue forever.

If they pivot to Dr. Doom, they can just say, hey the Kang plot didn't work so we went a different way. And since Antman 3 mostly bombed and only hardcore fans watch Loki, they could probably wipe it away that Kang was ever a big deal.

Personally, if I've got Disney/Marvel money, I just go to the plaintiff's lawyer with the blank check and say "how much to shut up and go away?" Then I lean into the Jonathan Majors' rehab tour of anger management and easy talk show appearances, and tell him please no more staged breaking up fight videos, then lean on him and make the next movies as good as you can, cuz he's definitely a cool on-screen presence.

I'd also make sure all my movies leading up to it start having some quality hero overlaps, like Iron man in the Spidey movies and Dr. Strange in Rangnarok. Get your A listers interacting more.

I still stand by the idea that the day Marvel really lost its way was when Chadwick Boseman died, because that dude was your next RDJ in terms of charisma and team leader in the team films.

Yep...

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TCTTS
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3:27p, 11/1/23
AG
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TCTTS
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3:28p, 11/1/23
AG
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3:28p, 11/1/23
AG
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TCTTS
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3:28p, 11/1/23
AG
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YNWA_AG
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4:29p, 11/1/23
AG
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to YNWA_AG • 4:32p, 11/1/23
AG
YNWA_AG said:
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TCTTS
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In reply to YNWA_AG • 4:35p, 11/1/23
AG
Imagine the uproar, and the minds that would have been lost, both here and on social media, had that version somehow seen the light of day. I think the MCU, and maybe even pop culture itself, would have imploded.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 4:43p, 11/1/23
AG
I still maintain that Drax should've run right into the middle of the shot at the last second for a great laugh.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:46p, 11/1/23
jokershady
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:54p, 11/1/23
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I still maintain that Drax should've run right into the middle of the shot at the last second for a great laugh.
had they done that....would've instantly made that scene memorable and hilarious....that idea was such a missed opportunity

maybe deadpool can fix it somehow
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Apache
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5:01p, 11/1/23
AG
Quote:
They should have found some way to shove Shang Chi into Black Panther 2 to get our new heroes working together and gotten Doctor STrange involved in a much better Thor 4 since those 2 characters were really good together in Ragnarok. Captain America should be Sam and Bucky with an assist from Spider-man to get back to their great dynamics from the airport fight in civil war.

Thor 4 definitely should have had some mystical - something's wrong / incursions plot to ramp us up to Kang in Antman 3 and beyond. But c'est la vie. Also, get Daredevil's ass in another movie ASAP.
Kang in GoG3 was another missed opportunity to tie things together. That said, the High Evolutionary is a really cool character that I would like to see more of.

For me, Marvel movies went from can't miss to "WFT another TV show?" and "Who the heck are these guys in the movie?"

I hope they get it back together. There were always dud movies, but the overall story arc was must-see.
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swimmerbabe11
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5:05p, 11/1/23
The 14 hour days thing wouldn't be such a big deal if you didn't think that they probably all have hour long commutes...then its like f that noise.
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The Porkchop Express
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7:24p, 11/1/23
AG
I keep banging the same drum on these vfx people. If the company that hires you tries to change the terms of your contract, you walk off the job, file a complaint with whatever industry powers that be and don't work for them again, no matter how big a company they are.
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TCTTS
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8:16p, 11/1/23
AG
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:46p, 11/1/23
It's the same for Star Wars.

Watch Clone Wars and Rebels or you won't understand Ahsoka.

Be sure to also watch them if you want to understand how some of that might tie in to the Mandalorian.
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TCTTS
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8:48p, 11/1/23
AG


This is what I'm thinking/hoping. Before the end of the year, the actors' strike will end (likely this week), they can get back into production on a number of projects, and Marvel will have their answer as to whether Majors stays or goes (with his trail finally set for the end of this month). Then, 2024 will see Deadpool 3, Captain American 4, and Thunderbolts, each of which I have a feeling will surprise/move the ball forward in significant ways, with 2025 having the potential to be even more exciting (Fantastic Four, Blade, etc).
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TCTTS
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:56p, 11/1/23
AG
I should add that this will also of course come with the planned/necessary de-emphasizing of the Disney+ series.
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rhutton125
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9:19p, 11/1/23
AG
I think I'd say the lack of true connectivity has been the problem. Val showing up for 5 seconds but nobody knowing what she's about isn't connectivity. Kingo references and other equally inessential Easter eggs don't count.

I want more things like Spider-Man + Doctor Strange. I want A-listers meeting A-listers. That puts butts in seats. I want Shang-Chi to fight Black Panther or something. I want Hawkeye to team up with the new Black Widow, or Captain America to work with Ant-Man and Wasp.

Nobody knows 2/3s of the Marvels and we barely know Carol but at least they're trying. But can Doctor Strange recruit Moon Knight, Blade and Werewolf by Night to fight an evil sorcerer or something? Can we do an Annihilation Wave story and have Thor, Captain Marvel and the Fantastic Four team up or something? Maybe bring the Eternals along and now they have a purpose?

Iunno man. The post-credits used to be one of my favorite parts because you can get excited about the pieces coming together. Now it truly is "hey it's me, Blorko" instead.
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Whos Juan
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:29p, 11/1/23
AG
TCTTS said:


This is what I'm thinking/hoping. Before the end of the year, the actors' strike will end (likely this week), they can get back into production on a number of projects, and Marvel will have their answer as to whether Majors stays or goes (with his trail finally set for the end of this month). Then, 2024 will see Deadpool 3, Captain American 4, and Thunderbolts, each of which I have a feeling will surprise/move the ball forward in significant ways, with 2025 having the potential to be even more exciting (Fantastic Four, Blade, etc).


Big talk from a guy who can't draw feet
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to rhutton125 • 10:15p, 11/1/23
AG
rhutton125 said:
I think I'd say the lack of true connectivity has been the problem. Val showing up for 5 seconds but nobody knowing what she's about isn't connectivity. Kingo references and other equally inessential Easter eggs don't count.

I want more things like Spider-Man + Doctor Strange. I want A-listers meeting A-listers. That puts butts in seats. I want Shang-Chi to fight Black Panther or something. I want Hawkeye to team up with the new Black Widow, or Captain America to work with Ant-Man and Wasp.

Nobody knows 2/3s of the Marvels and we barely know Carol but at least they're trying. But can Doctor Strange recruit Moon Knight, Blade and Werewolf by Night to fight an evil sorcerer or something? Can we do an Annihilation Wave story and have Thor, Captain Marvel and the Fantastic Four team up or something? Maybe bring the Eternals along and now they have a purpose?

Iunno man. The post-credits used to be one of my favorite parts because you can get excited about the pieces coming together. Now it truly is "hey it's me, Blorko" instead.
Blorko gave his life defending the moons of Niago from the Vicious Horde of Demon Lobsters and this is the thanks he gets?
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Aggie_Journalist
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:17p, 11/1/23
AG
What do you think the future of Disney+ is?

If they pull back on Marvel and Star Wars content because it's generally been disappointing, that's got to be a big hit to intended audiences

And given how expensive it is, how long can you operate it without that kind of draw?

I wonder if we'll hit a point in the next few years where the studios try to unroll all these streaming plans, go back to the TV days, and just refuse to sell their content to streamers to force folks back on cable.
Thanks and gig'em
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CowtownAg06
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In reply to Aggie_Journalist • 10:25p, 11/1/23
AG
D+ will be fine. They have Bluey.
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An L of an Ag
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In reply to Aggie_Journalist • 10:46p, 11/1/23
AG
It will be increasingly irrelevant holiday specials and/or crossovers within Marvel/Star Wars/Simpsons/etc.
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In reply to Aggie_Journalist • 10:48p, 11/1/23
AG
Literally as of today, Disney is officially set to pay $8.61 billion for the remaining 33% of Hulu from Comcast, for full, outright ownership of the streamer. The plan is to then combine services, and make Hulu a tab in Disney+ by the end of the year, though it will likely take a little longer. Either way, all that Hulu content will make up for any slowing down of Marvel/Star Wars content.

That said, there are still a number of shows from each franchise set to debut next year...

MARVEL
- Agatha: Darkhold Diaries
- Echo
- Ironheart

STAR WARS
- The Acolyte
- Andor: Season 2
- Skeleton Crew

Marvel-wise, Daredevil: Born Again and Wonder Man are/were also planned for 2024, but the former is likely delayed to 2025 due to rewrites, and even though Wonder Man began filming before the strike, there are rumors that it's been canned and will not be coming back after the strike.

Still, I wouldn't expect a true slow-down in content until 2025 (even though some of the above titles were set for this year and were already pushed back to 2024). Then again, personally, I have a hard time caring about any of the 2024 Marvel shows planned, and I seriously doubt they'll be of much consequence to broader MCU, so that "slow down" has already began, at least in terms of relevance. Regardless, once 2025 hits, I bet they're down to two seasons per franchise per year, for only four per year total, as opposed to the six to eight per year they've been planning/releasing.
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