I wasn't accusing it of pushing an agenda, I thought they treated the subject very thoughtfully and correctly. I don't think that Christians could get on board with the way that bodies are desecrated/devalued in this reality.

I thought it treated Christians quite fairly. It's debatable as to whether a person would be considered alive after the download because technically the body has to experience brain death for it to happen. The question then becomes, are you both the mind and body or are you just a function of a peculiarity of physics or a specific arragement of atoms?

The answer to this question is metaphysical and there is no real way to know. Regardless, it makes for an interesting situation since it happens to every kid before they hit 1 years old. Given that Christianity states that all innocents immediately go to heaven, it may in fact ensure 100% of people are now going to heaven, so it doesn't matter what happens afterwards. Regardless it's an interesting situation that has an answer that is entirely based upon faith.

Overall, I thought the show was quite good. It will be interesting how they handle a 2nd season. I hope they explore more what it really means to be able to change bodies almost at will. Having a main character do this would be something we've never seen before.

swimmerbabe11 said:

---

I wasn't accusing it of pushing an agenda, I thought they treated the subject very thoughtfully and correctly. I don't think that Christians could get on board with the way that bodies are desecrated/devalued in this reality.

---

I gotcha. Actually I think there's a lot about this that I think Christians could agree with in that man has always tried to become like God and find a way to live forever. So this show really exposes that about us humans. I do think they used a high amount of phlebotinum around the alien tech and it should probably be explained eventually.

Finished it up and thought it was good. Episode 1 makes a ton more sense rewatching it

swimmerbabe11 said:

---

Christianity professes the resurrection of the body, that our souls and bodies will reunite on the judgement day. That's why the body should be respected, even after death (including burial rather than cremation). So when the father says that "you get one body", he is definitely professing what a Christian in that reality would believe..that switching "sleeves" like clothing is a desecration and mortal sin. Since your soul goes straight to afterlife (or Catholics believe purgatory), the idea of keeping a stack on ice would also be insulting/irresponsible/wrong etc.

Honestly, I thought the neo-Catholics thing was a great angle. I would love to see more about how the religions evolved in this reality.

---

Most professing Christians have become ok with the idea of IVF as it is commonly practiced which includes putting embroys on ice.

But I agree that diving deeper into the neo-chatholics and the other religions would be interesting. Since history shows us that Religions adapt to new social constructs and all evolve over time to reflect the impact technology has over the morals of a society.

This one is a bit different though. You have to induce brain death in order to create the stack. It's much more complicated than just "new technology".

The religious angle is very interesting though because of what I said earlier. Are you your consciousness or are you your body?

third coast.. said:

---

Somehow y'all managed to make a thread about one of the coolest new shows boring and annoying.

---

Thanks for your useful contribution.

Personally, I think a whole lot of the fun of dystopian/sci fi is to think about the philosophical/ethical ramifications of the plot.

I mean, Black Mirror was created almost specifically to explore those concepts.. so I'm not alone.

I mean, the whole conflict in this show is whether or not the existence of stacks/sleeves/cloning is moral. It seems to be a natural course of discussion for us to consider.

If all we talked about was how great Ortega's tits were, wouldn't that be more boring?

Okay

They were really great. Naked bodies woo.

All of Tak's sleeves were really hot (obviously child Tak is excluded in that count)

Also sister with the snake... that was said it was illegal, but I can totally imagine people who would think that would be a great new version of the death penalty.. something worse than "real death"

I really enjoyed the show... and I don't enjoy or watch many shows.
I though overall it was well done.

And if we can get said boobies posted every post it would be awesome.

For those wanting to read more into it than just a fun, almost blade runner, show..... maybe it demonstrates how Trump is shattering the estabished groups of people running things to set a new course.

Another interesting thought: if Tak and Ortega got pregnant when they hooked up, would it be Tak's or Ryker's kid?

Ooooooo......
Great question.
How are children/genetics accounted for?

Ryker because it's us body and genes that are getting passed not Tak.

Prob something like a biological dad and a " adoptive" dad

Scruffy said:

---

I really enjoyed the show... and I don't enjoy or watch many shows.
I though overall it was well done.

And if we can get said boobies posted every post it would be awesome.

For those wanting to read more into it than just a fun, almost blade runner, show..... maybe it demonstrates how Trump is shattering the estabished groups of people running things to set a new course.

---

Wait..so now Trumpsters are giving him credit for new takes on sci-fi?

Scruffy said:

---

I really enjoyed the show... and I don't enjoy or watch many shows.
I though overall it was well done.

And if we can get said boobies posted every post it would be awesome.

For those wanting to read more into it than just a fun, almost blade runner, show..... maybe it demonstrates how Trump is shattering the estabished groups of people running things to set a new course.

---

Dude, just stop.

third coast.. said:

---

Did I miss how the meths didn't have the resleeve issue that dimi did? Was it just money that bought them the better technology?

---

At one point they explained that the difficulty isn't in being resleeved, it's the disorienting effect of suddenly being in someone else's body. So if you jump into an exact copy of your own body, it's pretty much plug and play.

Scruffy said:

---

I really enjoyed the show... and I don't enjoy or watch many shows.
I though overall it was well done.

And if we can get said boobies posted every post it would be awesome.

For those wanting to read more into it than just a fun, almost blade runner, show..... maybe it demonstrates how Trump is shattering the estabished groups of people running things to set a new course.

---

There's roughly a 99.999% chance that if you asked the creators how the show relates to Trump, they would say that he is one of the meths. Heir of generational wealth, beneficiary of corruption, and holder of political power walling himself off from the poor and disenfranchised of the world.*

That said, the show wasn't trying to do that, or if so they were tastefully subtle about it. It would have been VERY easy as i hope my illustration above makes clear, yet we have made it roughly 125 posts without anyone ranting about leftist politics invading entertainment. The trope of an untouchable elite literally floating above the degraded masses is a very common one in scifi.

*This post attempts to articulate typical entertainment industry beliefs and is not intended as a statement of my own political beliefs or opinions.

Ulrich said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

I really enjoyed the show... and I don't enjoy or watch many shows.
I though overall it was well done.

And if we can get said boobies posted every post it would be awesome.

For those wanting to read more into it than just a fun, almost blade runner, show..... maybe it demonstrates how Trump is shattering the estabished groups of people running things to set a new course.

---

There's roughly a 99.999% chance that if you asked the creators how the show relates to Trump, they would say that he is one of the meths. Heir of generational wealth, beneficiary of corruption, and holder of political power walling himself off from the poor and disenfranchised of the world.*

That said, the show wasn't trying to do that, or if so they were tastefully subtle about it. It would have been VERY easy as i hope my illustration above makes clear, yet we have made it roughly 125 posts without anyone ranting about leftist politics invading entertainment. The trope of an untouchable elite literally floating above the degraded masses is a very common one in scifi.

*This post attempts to articulate typical entertainment industry beliefs and is not intended as a statement of my own political beliefs or opinions.

---

I agree.
This seemed very non-political and just a good story.
I posted the above more tongue in cheek than trying to read into motives. I just find it funny when people try to ascribe motives for a plot.

third coast.. said:

---

yes but the sister had multiple sleeves and so did the daughter as well as son.

---

We also didn't see them resleeve, they could have had plenty of time and pharmaceuticals to adjust.

I don't remember Dimi well enough to be sure what you're talking about. That said, he was double sleeved which also seemed to give Kovacs some trouble in the finale.

Also, the meths, envoys, and ctacs all resleeve constantly, so I feel like the number of times can't be that much of a factor.

Ok, I remember that. I didn't really follow that either, it's inconsistent with everything else. I wonder if that's explained better in the books. Between the double sleeving and Kovacs' ability to screw with the matrix it seems like there are ideas to use, but they didn't make that clear in the tv show for sure.

I thought 'constant' resleeving implied lots of times with little recovery time.

However, aren't the envoys trained to resleeve lots without getting sleeve sick/crazy?

I assumed it's why Kovacs wanted a mirror in Ep 1

Maybe it's not the reseeving so much as the sleeve you're in getting killed? I agree that they said that about Dimi but it did not appear to bother anybody else, so it's an inconsistency in the series.

That being said, I thought this was a great show. Those saying it's a rehashed concept, please let me know what you are referring to so I can check it out. I thought it was incredibly original and thought provoking concept. I love all the subtle ways they showed how this technology would affect us, starting with the cheapening of "sleeve death."

Though the sister was the weak link in the cast. Wish they would've left the envoy training more of a mystery. I think all these movies and books lose some of their mystique when they over explain the backstory.

The Wei clinic episode is one of my favorite episodes of television ever. So satisfying to watch him blast his way out of their in full on don't **** with me mode.

Other gripe - killed off a lot of the cast that I liked. Kind of depressing ending. Looks like main actor won't be back. Really like that guy and am surprised his career hasn't taken off more the last few years (He was in Robocop remake and did a great job in that, too).