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The Wire

16,812 Views | 147 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by aTmAg
Kellso
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aTmAg said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

But that stupid fake ass serial killer newspaper plot in season 5 of the wire was so stupid that many wire fans pretend the season doesn't even exist. Nobody ever advised anyone to skip a season of BrBa.
Even worse, except for a few things like Brother Mazone, the Wire had a realistic aspect that made it that much better. In a way, it sorta blew the lid off the naive view that shows like CSI presented. The fake serial killer plot shot that whole notion to hell in my mind. It made me think, "well clearly they are pulling that out of their ass... I wonder how much of the past 4 seasons were pulled out of their ass?" It knocked the other seasons down a notch too.

It's different than Game of Thrones where the last 2 seasons sucked, but the first several are still as good as they were originally.
Umm....Brother Mouzone was extremely realistic.
Head Ninja In Charge
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AG
LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
Scientific
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AG
It's obvious Mouzone was FOI. Very believable imo.
Sex Panther
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AG
Those guys are definitely real... not saying Brother Mouzone was a great character, but he was based in reality.


expresswrittenconsent
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Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.
aTmAg
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AG
expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.
Yes.. this is what I was referring to.
SACR
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AG
expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
aTmAg
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AG
SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.
Bunk Moreland
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FWIW I wouldn't advise anyone skip season 5 of The Wire because it's still good even with the outlandish newspaper stuff. It was by far the weakest of the 5 seasons but you just have to know Simon's background because it clearly was too personal for him imo.

That all being said...some themes of the disconnect in the newsroom in that season unfortunately can be seen in extremes today with how the press covers news stories. Unfortunately the wild ass hysterical story style has won power over the newsroom editor at papers in the current world.
Stive
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AG
On a rewatch a couple of years back I remember thinking it wasn't as bad as my first time through it. The previous seasons story lines were still entertaining and I actually liked some of the newspaper stuff. If they'd only figured out something other than the serial killer thing....
aTmAg
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AG
To me, the newspaper part was not the bad part. I think the fact that they didn't bother to cover Omar's death was the kicker to that whole part of the story. He was bigger than life to characters and viewers alike, yet didn't even merit a footnote.
Bunk Moreland
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I felt the decision they made with Omar's death was very much in line with how they presented "the game" and the consequences. The juxtaposition of a force such as Omar being shot dead by little Kenard was great. People in the game come and go. When you're around and active you're huge. When you're gone or dead you're forgotten.

I think they also did a good job with that in how Marlo's rise came to be. For someone earlier who said they couldn't take take him seriously because he looked so young... Well that was the point. Some new young hoppers flexed and sized opportunity. Age doesn't mean anything on the street.
Bunk Moreland
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Also, upon multiple rewatches Spiros might have been my favorite character on the show. His lines were so calculated.
Stive
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AG
I'm with you on Omar's death barely being a footnote in the paper. The outside world had no clue who he was and in their world it was just another "banger" getting shot on the wrong side of town... It would have been weirder if the paper had paid it any kind of real focus.

And I was the one that mentioned Marlo's age and appearance and I think you're right. It just throws me off that "seasoned" street guys who supposedly know all the ins and outs (String and Barksdale) can get taken out by someone that looks 16 and supposedly commands the respect of former military guys like Chris.
Sex Panther
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AG
Yeah I'm confused on the Omar barely registering a footnote comment. That was the whole point... been a while since I've seen it but I remember that being so poignant and brilliant
Bunk Moreland
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Agree. It was definitely shocking because we got lulled into this sense that drugs was a grown man's game and pro operation etc... Then out of nowhere a new winner emerges and he's pure street, not interested in legitimacy other than people on the street knowing he's the man.

****. I avoided this thread as long as I could but here I am partaking. I'm gonna have to watch it again aren't I?
Kellso
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aTmAg said:

SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.

Quote:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.

Quote:

LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
LMFAO!
You guys need to get out of the suburbs more often.
Most rappers use the FOI, or off duty cops for their security detail.

If a famous rapper or entertainer use the FOI as security, then it is not out of the question that high level drug dealers would also use the same types to handle street business.

Brother Mouzone is based off a typical Fruit of Islam security detail.
Most of those guys are going to be the furthest thing from a brash, ghetto gang-banger.

A lot of FOI also picked up the Religion in prison....so the guy that converts to Islam while incarcerated might already be a hardened killer.

There is nothing unrealistic about Brother Mouzone's character at all.

CowtownAg06
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AG
I stated a rewatch a few weeks ago. I was going to skip S5 but now maybe I won't. I hated how insane McNulty acted with the serial killer stuff.
aTmAg
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AG
Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.

Quote:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.

Quote:

LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
LMFAO!
You guys need to get out of the suburbs more often.
Most rappers use the FOI, or off duty cops for their security detail.

Brother Mouzone is based of a typical Fruit of Islam security detail.
Most of those guys are going to be the furthest thing from a brash, ghetto gang-banger.....which from yalls post is what you are expecting from a typical criminal that is shown on TV.

A lot of FOI also picked up the Religion in prison....so the guy that converts to Islam while incarcerated might already be a hardened killer.

There is nothing unrealistic about Brother Mouzone's character at all.


Sorry dude... Not buying it. Search the internet were not they only guys saying this.

The notion that a skinny and unintimidating "N-word with a library card" who is highly educated would waste his time being "muscle" for hire is ridiculous. And the idea that he and his lone minion would be able to guard the towers by sitting on a bench reading magazines is asinine. Some dude could just walk behind him and shoot him in the back of the head.

Don't get me wrong the show is still in the top 2 shows if all time, but this is one of a couple flaws the show had.
Kellso
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aTmAg said:

Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.

Quote:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.

Quote:

LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
LMFAO!
You guys need to get out of the suburbs more often.
Most rappers use the FOI, or off duty cops for their security detail.

Brother Mouzone is based of a typical Fruit of Islam security detail.
Most of those guys are going to be the furthest thing from a brash, ghetto gang-banger.....which from yalls post is what you are expecting from a typical criminal that is shown on TV.

A lot of FOI also picked up the Religion in prison....so the guy that converts to Islam while incarcerated might already be a hardened killer.

There is nothing unrealistic about Brother Mouzone's character at all.


Sorry dude... Not buying it. Search the internet were not they only guys saying this.

The notion that a skinny and unintimidating "N-word with a library card" who is highly educated would waste his time being "muscle" for hire is ridiculous. And the idea that he and his lone minion would be able to guard the towers by sitting on a bench reading magazines is asinine. Some dude could just walk behind him and shoot him in the back of the head.

Don't get me wrong the show is still in the top 2 shows if all time, but this is one of a couple flaws the show had.
Dude,

I get it. You are taking YOUR perspective and biases on the world and what you see on TV, and then projecting what feels good to you as being unrealistic or realistic.

This is precisely why the Wire is such great TV. It doesn't follow general conventions where all the Good Guys look one way, and the bad guys all look and behave a different way.

The skinny and "Un- intimidating" guy which you describe as highly educated may have been highly educated in prison.

He might not be "Wasting his time" being muscle if he is a trained and convicted killer and the drug dealers pay the best.

You could shoot an FOI in the back of the head.....but that organization is not one that you want problems with if you are in the hood.

Everything about Brother Mouzone is realistic. A Puffy Combs, Suge Knight type of mogul is most likely going to be surrounded by a couple of FOI bodyguards whose mannerisms and behavior would mirror Brother Mouzone.

Scientific
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AG
If you think Mouzone's demeanor is out of the ordinary? You dont know about the Fruit of Islam or 5 Percent Nation. Lennox Leiws hired these guys for security when he fought. Ice Cube was known to have them around - you see them in a scene in the Straight Outta Compton Movie.

As far as exaggerations. The biggest one is that there's no way he could single handedly keep other rivals away. He works for Barksdale with a connection in NY. You get the sense he's gone rogue outside of his own beliefs. But everything else about him, is kind of standard. Just imagine if Wee-Bey would have found Islam in prison.
Head Ninja In Charge
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AG
Bunk Moreland said:

Also, upon multiple rewatches Spiros might have been my favorite character on the show. His lines were so calculated.
This. If you've watched the show enough times, you'll realize that the best characters are the second-in-command, lieutenants or the head shooter/muscle. Their characters are focused, sometimes hilarious, often times terrifying, in some bizarre ass way really human, and always memorable:

- Vondas
- Wee-Bey
- Slim Charles
- Bunk

I'm sure I'm missing a few other.
aTmAg
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AG
Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.

Quote:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.

Quote:

LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
LMFAO!
You guys need to get out of the suburbs more often.
Most rappers use the FOI, or off duty cops for their security detail.

Brother Mouzone is based of a typical Fruit of Islam security detail.
Most of those guys are going to be the furthest thing from a brash, ghetto gang-banger.....which from yalls post is what you are expecting from a typical criminal that is shown on TV.

A lot of FOI also picked up the Religion in prison....so the guy that converts to Islam while incarcerated might already be a hardened killer.

There is nothing unrealistic about Brother Mouzone's character at all.


Sorry dude... Not buying it. Search the internet were not they only guys saying this.

The notion that a skinny and unintimidating "N-word with a library card" who is highly educated would waste his time being "muscle" for hire is ridiculous. And the idea that he and his lone minion would be able to guard the towers by sitting on a bench reading magazines is asinine. Some dude could just walk behind him and shoot him in the back of the head.

Don't get me wrong the show is still in the top 2 shows if all time, but this is one of a couple flaws the show had.
Dude,

I get it. You are taking YOUR perspective and biases on the world and what you see on TV, and then projecting what feels good to you as being unrealistic or realistic.

This is precisely why the Wire is such great TV. It doesn't follow general conventions where all the Good Guys look one way, and the bad guys all look and behave a different way.

The skinny and "Un- intimidating" guy which you describe as highly educated may have been highly educated in prison.

He might not be "Wasting his time" being muscle if he is a trained and convicted killer and the drug dealers pay the best.

You could shoot an FOI in the back of the head.....but that organization is not one that you want problems with if you are in the hood.

Everything about Brother Mouzone is realistic. A Puffy Combs, Suge Knight type of mogul is most likely going to be surrounded by a couple of FOI bodyguards whose mannerisms and behavior would mirror Brother Mouzone.
Trained killer? What do you think this is, the Borne series? Maybe he got "trained" in some terrorist camp in Afhganistan! Or as a Navy Seal!

Ridiculous. All the real life famous mob/gang killers I'm aware of weren't "trained" by anybody. They were merely ruthless and had no conscience.

Find me a picture of Puffy Combs or Suge Knight surrounded by Brother Mouzone-like body guards. I couldn't find any. All the ones I found were something like this:

(I'm going to guess those white guys aren't FOI.)

The show is not perfect. Maybe someday you will accept that fact. It's still a top 2 show that I've watched in full 4 times.
Head Ninja In Charge
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AG
Bunk Moreland said:

I felt the decision they made with Omar's death was very much in line with how they presented "the game" and the consequences. The juxtaposition of a force such as Omar being shot dead by little Kenard was great. People in the game come and go. When you're around and active you're huge. When you're gone or dead you're forgotten.
100%. This is what Scorsese tried (and failed) to do with the end of Gangs of New York. A huge, inevitable showdown of larger than life characters which was disappointingly, but not surprisingly, derailed by the world they inhabited. Omar was almost mythical in the Wire's Baltimore and met his end suddenly by the most annoying, inconsequential character on the show (not named Ziggy).

The in-world decision not to run with his story in the newspaper in S5 despite literally building up his character and his arc throughout the entire series was genius.

Just another cog in the wheel.
aTmAg
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AG
Scientific said:

If you think Mouzone's demeanor is out of the ordinary? You dont know about the Fruit of Islam or 5 Percent Nation. Lennox Leiws hired these guys for security when he fought. Ice Cube was known to have them around - you see them in a scene in the Straight Outta Compton Movie.

As far as exaggerations. The biggest one is that there's no way he could single handedly keep other rivals away. He works for Barksdale with a connection in NY. You get the sense he's gone rogue outside of his own beliefs. But everything else about him, is kind of standard. Just imagine if Wee-Bey would have found Islam in prison.
I'm not talking about his demeanor (though I suspect typical FoI guys are not particularly educated/smart). I'm talking about your 2nd paragraph. Barksdale was short on muscle. So he hires this one guy who sits out front and holds an entire half of Baltimore at bay. That is just not believable.
Head Ninja In Charge
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AG
FWIW, Omar's character (and yes, we all know he's based off of Donnie IRL) was just as unbelievable as Brother Mouzone's. Reality is a stick-up kid walking in the open with a shotgun ready to rob renowned drug dealers would be dead in a month. Difference is Michael K. Williams is a great actor and made for an interesting character. Brother Mouzone was the same level of killer in the show, but the way he was acted and written just highlighted the ridiculousness of it all. Took away from the show if we're being honest.

As great of a show as it is, let's not forget that it's just that. A television show.
SACR
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AG

Have you ever been shot with a rubber bullet?

There were some flaws in the show, but Brother Mouzone wasn't one of them.

I always felt the idea that politicians could rip off a high-level drug dealer (Stringer) and get away with it scot-free was a huge stretch. We're supposed to believe drug dealers wouldn't go after a politician because it would attract attention, but reality is you don't fck a criminal out of millions of dollars unless you want to end up dead.
AggieChemist
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AG
Maybe it's the Libertarian in me, but I think my favorite subplot of the whole series was Hampsterdam.
expresswrittenconsent
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AggieChemist said:

Maybe it's the Libertarian in me, but I think my favorite subplot of the whole series was Hampsterdam.

I loved it in spite of it not really making sense.
It made no sense that a high ranking cop like Bunny Colvin, about to retire on a pension paying 99% of his highest ever working salary and take a high paying new job would throw it all away to implement "hampsterdam". He's (like most cops) been working toward that pension and double pay for 25-30 years. I could buy a lower level cop turning his head and that the churches and city govt types would begrudgingly be OK with it. But Bunny threw away probably 1.5 mil in combined pension and new job salary that he was set to collect in the decade after retiring from BPD with 30yrs at age 50.
aTmAg
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AG
AggieChemist said:

Maybe it's the Libertarian in me, but I think my favorite subplot of the whole series was Hampsterdam.
The "study" of such things is my favorite part of this show. I can't think of any other show that does it to this degree. They have a bunch of characters with their own motivations acting in their self interest, and you get to see a realistic portrayal of how that complicated interactions play out.

Hamptsterdam is one good example. Another if the uncovering if bodies in season 4 when mayor Royce kept the police from opening up houses with Snoop's nails to keep his murder stats low, and then Carcetti reversed course after he won because he waited the stats on Royce and not him.

I find that sort of stuff interesting.
Kellso
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aTmAg said:

Scientific said:

If you think Mouzone's demeanor is out of the ordinary? You dont know about the Fruit of Islam or 5 Percent Nation. Lennox Leiws hired these guys for security when he fought. Ice Cube was known to have them around - you see them in a scene in the Straight Outta Compton Movie.

As far as exaggerations. The biggest one is that there's no way he could single handedly keep other rivals away. He works for Barksdale with a connection in NY. You get the sense he's gone rogue outside of his own beliefs. But everything else about him, is kind of standard. Just imagine if Wee-Bey would have found Islam in prison.
I'm not talking about his demeanor (though I suspect typical FoI guys are not particularly educated/smart). I'm talking about your 2nd paragraph. Barksdale was short on muscle. So he hires this one guy who sits out front and holds an entire half of Baltimore at bay. That is just not believable.
Did you ever read the 48 Laws of Power?

Law #5 states: "So Much Depends On Reputation Guard It With Your Life"

Do you remember the scenes prior to Brother Mouzone arriving on screen where all the gangsters are in fear of him and the amount of bodies he has on him?

Would you want to "Take on" Chris Partlow or Snoop if they were real people?

That is the power of reputation. Its not out of the ordinary that guys from a different part of town would get run out a housing project where they don't live.
Kellso
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aTmAg said:

Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

Kellso said:

aTmAg said:

SACR said:

expresswrittenconsent said:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.


You think all killers are brash and ostentatious?

He was far from a super villain, btw, he was muscle. He was a mercenary.
They don't typically be read as The Economist, Harper's, The Atlantic, The New Republic, etc. They went out of their way to make him unusual and refined that it became almost comical. And he wasn't intimidating at all. They just took it too far.

Quote:

Mouzone as a quiet, nerdy super villain killer is what seemed incredulous, not the idea of him being a nation of islam type.

Quote:

LOL. No he wasn't. He was the least believable character on the show, bordering on parody.
LMFAO!
You guys need to get out of the suburbs more often.
Most rappers use the FOI, or off duty cops for their security detail.

Brother Mouzone is based of a typical Fruit of Islam security detail.
Most of those guys are going to be the furthest thing from a brash, ghetto gang-banger.....which from yalls post is what you are expecting from a typical criminal that is shown on TV.

A lot of FOI also picked up the Religion in prison....so the guy that converts to Islam while incarcerated might already be a hardened killer.

There is nothing unrealistic about Brother Mouzone's character at all.


Sorry dude... Not buying it. Search the internet were not they only guys saying this.

The notion that a skinny and unintimidating "N-word with a library card" who is highly educated would waste his time being "muscle" for hire is ridiculous. And the idea that he and his lone minion would be able to guard the towers by sitting on a bench reading magazines is asinine. Some dude could just walk behind him and shoot him in the back of the head.

Don't get me wrong the show is still in the top 2 shows if all time, but this is one of a couple flaws the show had.
Dude,

I get it. You are taking YOUR perspective and biases on the world and what you see on TV, and then projecting what feels good to you as being unrealistic or realistic.

This is precisely why the Wire is such great TV. It doesn't follow general conventions where all the Good Guys look one way, and the bad guys all look and behave a different way.

The skinny and "Un- intimidating" guy which you describe as highly educated may have been highly educated in prison.

He might not be "Wasting his time" being muscle if he is a trained and convicted killer and the drug dealers pay the best.

You could shoot an FOI in the back of the head.....but that organization is not one that you want problems with if you are in the hood.

Everything about Brother Mouzone is realistic. A Puffy Combs, Suge Knight type of mogul is most likely going to be surrounded by a couple of FOI bodyguards whose mannerisms and behavior would mirror Brother Mouzone.
Trained killer? What do you think this is, the Borne series? Maybe he got "trained" in some terrorist camp in Afhganistan! Or as a Navy Seal!

Ridiculous. All the real life famous mob/gang killers I'm aware of weren't "trained" by anybody. They were merely ruthless and had no conscience.

Find me a picture of Puffy Combs or Suge Knight surrounded by Brother Mouzone-like body guards. I couldn't find any. All the ones I found were something like this:

(I'm going to guess those white guys aren't FOI.)

The show is not perfect. Maybe someday you will accept that fact. It's still a top 2 show that I've watched in full 4 times.
Atm,

You are funny dude. I'll give you that. I love people that double down on their ignorance.

A contract killer is someone that is trained in hurting, and murdering people. A major NYC drug organization (or Drug Cartel) isn't going to pay that kind of work to some joe blow off the street.

A lot of people state that Brother Mouzone is based of off the guy that killed Biggie Smalls in 1997.
But yeah.....Nothing "Realistic" about his character at all.

[img] [/img]
Scientific
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AG
Fair enough, and we'll agree that all great shows embellish. But you said they went out of his way to make him refined. He's representative of the 5 Percenters & FOI, especially the type of individuals that were "reformed" by Islam in prison. Brother Mouzone was more of a composite character, representing what prison was producing during the 70s and 80s. There's no history to his arc, but its a given he was introduced to Islam in prison and got woke.

I honestly didnt think Mouzone created all this debate.
aTmAg
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AG
Kellso,

You aren't getting the part that is unrealistic. I have no problem with him wearing a suit, tie, or any of that.

What is unrealistic is the notion that a single guy from out of town would be able to sit there at a bench and keep half of the entire city of Baltimore at bay by his mere presence. If there were 10 guys in suits and ties, then it would be believable. But not one dude.

And also the notion that a guy in that position would be a super smart is laughable. At least they didn't have him researching quantum mechanics in his crap-hole hotel room between hits. Stringer Bell being smart made sense. He was at the top of the organization and practically ran the whole thing. He didn't waste his smarts being "muscle" or guarding a building. Even Avon accused him of not being "real gangster". In a parallel universe Bell would be a CEO of some corporation. For Bell that character trait was compelling. For Mouzone it was eye roll inducing.

Scientific
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AG
aTmAg said:


And also the notion that a guy in that position would be a super smart is laughable. At least they didn't have him researching quantum mechanics in his crap-hole hotel room between hits. Stringer Bell being smart made sense. He was at the top of the organization and practically ran the whole thing. He didn't waste his smarts being "muscle" or guarding a building. Even Avon accused him of not being "real gangster". In a parallel universe Bell would be a CEO of some corporation. For Bell that character trait was compelling. For Mouzone it was eye roll inducing.



That's the point of Mouzone. Malcolm X was a former petty criminal, so how did he get educated in prison the way he did?
 
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