Skip and Stephen A. were doing their typical shtick where one is arguing in favor of Johnny winning the Heisman as a freshman (S.A) and the other arguing in favor of it being a breadth-of-work award (Skip) and arguing in favor of Colin Klein.

Its an impossible comparison, but they each had to do so because thats what people watch....Johnny was head and shoulders over everyone else in CFB that year.

To me, this is not about Johnny's substance abuse, but him walking up to Skip and saying "hi" because his ***** ass was the one who drew the short straw and had to try and argue for weeks on end about how Johnny shouldnt win the Heisman and it should go to Collin.

Skip is a worthless blowhard and his first words in that clip were "And now let me bring myself into this story..."

no **** Skip.

I disagree with the controlling jff part. His HS obviously did it.

We let him run wild. It was part of what made him greet. Maybe we wouldn't have been as good that year if we sat him out for violating rules. But maybe it would have been better for him in the long run.

Who knows. But it's pretty obvious everyone knew he could do what he want so he did.

Fair points. However, my understanding is that he had quite the reputation in Kerville for similar antics. Easy to hide in the Friday night lights of Texas. Not so much in the national spot light.

Totally agree about what might have been is they sat him that year following the arrest. Unfortunately, we will never know.

Finally watched Friday night, and I thought it was really solid and a pretty fair account of everything.

Hearing the behind the scenes of everything we'd watched from the sidelines was fascinating, and it's crazy that the media (and us) bought the story of his family money hook line and sinker with no one doing the due diligence to verify that. And while yes, they did lie about it, duping the NCAA about everything is pretty hilarious. As Nate said they didn't break any laws.

Overall a great watch and has me interested to check out some of their other Untold docs, the one on Florida under Urban Meyer comes out Aug 22nd.

From Nate's explanation it didn't sound like a subtle exaggeration, shouldn't have been that hard to figure out he hadn't been flying all over the country, attending expensive events, etc., till very recently.

Right, I thought that was kind of obvious...apparently not.

Know Your Enemy said:

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What "drug" is Johnny using? Weed? Lol, that's 100% legal in Arizona where he lives. And that's not a drug that's going to kill him. I believe they showed him drinking one beer. He didn't appear drunk or on real drugs at any point.

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Alcohol and cocaine were mentioned in the film. The legality is irrelevant to the discussion on this thread, and I made no moral or legal comment about his use. I made a reasonable observation based off his history of use/abuse and trips to rehab that Manziel is an addict. If you can compartmentalize your drug use, go to town and good luck to you. Manziel is likely not one of those people as evidence by the repeated harmful consequences of his drug use. I would be happy to be corrected on whether or not he is an addict. However, if you know anything about the body of literature surrounding addiction, "one beer" is the equivalent of playing "Russian Roulette".

Sure, one beer won't kill you and if you're not an addict, you can control your intake. By definition, addicts can't. The ego takes over and tells them "Just one more" until it turns into a bender. JFF has a big ego and seems to go on even bigger benders. One of those is likely to do him in.

That was a well made show for reasons already given. I thought it was fair to A&M, and I thought as I did then that Johnny was the cause of many of his troubles. Yeah, the parents appear to be culpable in some of that but at the end of the day it was Johnny making bad decisions.

I learned tonight about the family oil money lie and that he was hungover while beating the crap out of Mississippi State (a game I actually attended in 2012). I am glad for him that he has found something worth living for.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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I learned tonight about the family oil money lie and that he was hungover while beating the crap out of Mississippi State (a game I actually attended in 2012). I am glad for him that he has found something worth living for.

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I believe he was hungover for the Friday practice, the day before the game.

Yes. Was the day before. So he went out hard Thursday night.

FIDO95 said:

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Know Your Enemy said:

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What "drug" is Johnny using? Weed? Lol, that's 100% legal in Arizona where he lives. And that's not a drug that's going to kill him. I believe they showed him drinking one beer. He didn't appear drunk or on real drugs at any point.

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Alcohol and cocaine were mentioned in the film. The legality is irrelevant to the discussion on this thread, and I made no moral or legal comment about his use. I made a reasonable observation based off his history of use/abuse and trips to rehab that Manziel is an addict. If you can compartmentalize your drug use, go to town and good luck to you. Manziel is likely not one of those people as evidence by the repeated harmful consequences of his drug use. I would be happy to be corrected on whether or not he is an addict. However, if you know anything about the body of literature surrounding addiction, "one beer" is the equivalent of playing "Russian Roulette".

Sure, one beer won't kill you and if you're not an addict, you can control your intake. By definition, addicts can't. The ego takes over and tells them "Just one more" until it turns into a bender. JFF has a big ego and seems to go on even bigger benders. One of those is likely to do him in.

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+1. His sister in the documentary mentioned that people ask why isnt he doing anything, and she said its because hes not in a place mentally to do anything, and then talks about the struggles he goes through everyday. I took that as hes likely still using drugs and/or drinking heavily.

With all of the scrutiny around his past drinking and partying, you would think he would refrain from drinking or smoking weed while filming the documentary. He just doesnt care.

The fact that he's opening a bar on Northgate…

BadMoonRisin said:

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They didnt lose touch. Johnny shot him in a rocket into the sun to pick up someone brand new (E.B.) that had plausible deniability about his behavior.

As you can see, that plausible deniability did not last very long.

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Sorry, who is EB? I haven't watched the documentary week, planning on doing that later this week.

Tailgate88 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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They didnt lose touch. Johnny shot him in a rocket into the sun to pick up someone brand new (E.B.) that had plausible deniability about his behavior.

As you can see, that plausible deniability did not last very long.

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Sorry, who is EB? I haven't watched the documentary week, planning on doing that later this week.

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Erik Burkhardt his agent.

interesting watch.

very much a tiny peephole snapshot of what was really happening... the editors focus on a couple of themes, cover them partially, and that's it.

that's the way it goes.

bottom line, it is story of timing, circumstances, and politics as much as it is a cautionary tale.

if NIL had hit when Manziel hit, he and we'd be much wealthier.

the rovell crap and all the media attacks that followed derived from a deliberate hit piece, and tu money helped fuel that bull***** they couldnt stand for "johnny football" the hero to play at A&M.

the big story not mentioned was the double standards, hypocrisy and politics that drove the attack on both Manziel and A&M. I am glad they came out with the 'hate the NCAA and laughed in their face on the autograph' schemes, but one reason the punishment wasnt there was the fact that many major athletes had done the same thing and gone unpunished.

the biggest issue for me is they let all the bull**** the cleveland organization pulled off the hook, and just left it at "Johnny didnt enjoy football anymore"

they didnt get into all the reasons WHY cleveland drained the life out of Manziel as a player.

we all know that Manziel was literally a giant on the field. He was in a completely different league than Dak, travor lawrence, tannehill, goff, jones, bortles, newton, mccown, rg3, and pretty much anyone else, if given the right scheme and motivation.

they focus on 'zero ipad time' and yet manziel is reeling off play calls his coaches made in HS and college. he knew how to work, if properly motivated.

bottom line, i still think if Manziel had gone to a responsible, intelligent, creative team he probably would have been an excellent pro QB.

he had an above average NFL arm, but his innate ability to make off-schedule plays was by far the best of anyone in history, and with the right OC he could have been magic in the NFL just as he was at A&M. if they had made it fun and managed/mentored him appropriately, it probably would have worked.

Cleveland did literally every single thing wrong. Manziel certainly didnt react appropriately to get a chance with another team, but to be honest, he was ****ed from the start there.

it's also not like people didnt know what needed to be done - Cleveland just did it.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/johnny-manziel/32004d41-4e79-4607-5b0c-d1ab80db11cf


i agreed with everything below except what i struck through


Strengths

• Has very big hands and grips the ball well on the move
• Dynamic athlete
• Exceptional game-day competitor -- rises to the occasion
• Has a passion for the game
• Played on the biggest of stages and revels in having his back against the wall
• Stepped up against a national-championship Alabama defense in 2012 and has proven he can command come-from-behind victories, as he capped his career in the Chick-fil-A bowl vs
• Duke by overcoming a 21-point halftime deficit
• Sufficient timing, ball placement and accuracy (68.9 percent career passing percentage)
• Terrific scrambling ability
• Reverse spins and buys time in the pocket while continuing to scan the field -- can still set his feet, alter his throwing motion and manipulate his arm and throwing platform
• Houdini-like escapability (uses subtle, nifty sidestep moves) and improvisional ability in the pocket to pull a rabbit out of his hat and create magic
• Has peripheral, wide-eyed running vision (sometimes seems like he has eyes in back of his head) and a very good feel for spacing
• Carries the ball with a fearless confidence that he will find a way to create and usually gains positive yardage on broken plays when he appears trapped
• Is mentally and physically tough -- will pop back up from hard collisions and respond to a challenge
• Record-setting and award-winning two-year production
• Has a knack for sustaining drives and possesses playmaking ability to create on third downs and in critical situations to keep the sticks moving

Weaknesses

• Has an unorthodox body type with marginal height, rounded shoulders, an underdeveloped body and very big feet that almost look clumsy
• Will need to learn to do a better job protecting his body and sliding
• Feels pocket ghosts and often takes off running at the second flash of coverage
• Undisciplined -- plays his own offense and presses to make plays
• Cannot see over the pocket easily and almost never steps up into it, creating extra difficulties for OL coaches to coordinate blocking schemes and for offensive linemen to anticipate where the pocket will be
• Dances around the pocket too much and creates needless sacks rolling into protection when the pocket is clean
• Has not worked from under center, and footwork and set-up will require refinement
• Often throws the ball up in the air and relies on big receivers to adjust to it and make plays, highly benefiting from the playmaking ability of Mike Evans
• Tends to overshoot the deep ball and throw off his back foot, leading to some underthrows (too many dirtballs on the move) and diminished accuracy
• Needlessly pats the ball when he scans the field
• Could stand to do a better job carrying out play-action fakes
• Has not developed a reputation as a worker or for doing the extras
• Suspect intangibles -- not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words
• Carries a sense of entitlement and prima-donna arrogance seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood
• Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game
• Lacks ideal starting experience (only two years), operated a non-traditional offense and has a lot to learn