There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

Sapper Redux said:

---

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

---

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.

RAB91 said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

---

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.

---

There are plenty of Muslims who get along just fine in the west. Islamic fundamentalism is a very recent phenomenon from the last 40-50 years.

RAB91 said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

---

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.

---

What are the incompatibilities in your mind? I think there are legitimate concerns when you have new large immigrant groups in terms of their accepting of fundamental Western procedural and structural concepts.

For example, large groups of Muslims who reject American ideas of individual freedom or religious freedom and who would like to live under Sharia Law would be a concern. But large groups of Muslims who align with our Constitutional values, but maybe look a little different, talk a little different, and worship a different God . . . that doesn't bother me.

That's because your worldview is a post-Christian agnosticism, and you can't imagine that other people hold genuinely different imaginative frameworks.

There is no particular reason a person who isn't western should share ANY of your presuppositions about rights, morality, government, the aims of society, etc.

You're basically asking for Muslims to not be actual Muslims, who have a completely different set of presuppositions from you, but be like you only worshipping differently. It is as if you have no concept of mind for people who aren't like you. It's short sighted.

" worship a different God "

I believe Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God- the God of Abraham.

PabloSerna said:

---

RAB91 said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

---

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.

---

They are not going anywhere, what do you propose?

---

Don't let any more in. Kick out the ones who aren't citizens (or have green cards). It is probably too little, too late...but you have to try. See Western European countries for examples of what happens when you let their growth go unchecked.

PabloSerna said:

---

" worship a different God "

I believe Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God- the God of Abraham.

---

There's no difference?

Christians on homosexuality - "it's a sin," don't push your lifestyle on my kids, I'll pray for you but won't bake a cake.

Muslims on homosexuality - let me go show you the view from the roof.

Also to poster that asked what we are going to do about it.

It's pretty easy to see my solution.

False equivalence, or at least an unproven one.

Let's say we were talking about objecting to the immigration of a cannibal Murder puppy killing cult. Would your argument - people said the same thing about Catholics - hold?

What claim? That the category of "western" exists?

it really looks as if you are literally incapable of having an honest discussion

are you saying catholics are cannibal puppy murderers because people used the same arguments against them?!!

PabloSerna said:

---

" I believe Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God- the God of Abraham.

---

Wut?

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also."

1 John 2:22-23

Zobel said:

---

That's because your worldview is a post-Christian agnosticism, and you can't imagine that other people hold genuinely different imaginative frameworks.

There is no particular reason a person who isn't western should share ANY of your presuppositions about rights, morality, government, the aims of society, etc.

You're basically asking for Muslims to not be actual Muslims, who have a completely different set of presuppositions from you, but be like you only worshipping differently. It is as if you have no concept of mind for people who aren't like you. It's short sighted.

---

So . . . I am the one that cannot imagine that other people hold different values? And I'm being lectured on being short sighted as it relates to treatment of people with different values? I might explode from the irony. . .

As far as I can tell, the first half of the originally posted article is just alarmist propaganda about the dangers of people that eat differently and name their kids differently. Are we worried that our country will have more people with brown skin? Or that you'll see more halal grocery stories? Or that some people in your community will congregate for Friday prayer? Or that names like Mohammad will be more common?

The second half of the article at least brings up concerns about treatment of women and Islamic communities circumventing US laws. And these are the places where I can share concern. . . . not in the 'Oh my God, my kid has to go to school with a kid named Mohammad'.

From your second paragraph above, I take it that your main concern is not about kids named Mohammad and Halal grocery stores, but you are instead worried about the values of these people. And so, a few of us on this thread are asking for someone to flesh out the argument for concern. Does the concern stem from hatred of different people? Or does it stem from concern about their values regarding individual rights and liberties, treatment of women, and role of government?

Your one-sentence paragraph above remains the only half-ass attempt in this thread to offer the start of an argument. I don't feel that I'm out of line asking for someone to flesh out the argument because I also have some concerns. Maybe for similar reasons and maybe for different reasons.

Also, funny enough, the line about me asking Muslims to not actually be Muslims is the exact line I hear constantly on this board from Christians about Christianity. I am told that by suggesting that Christians not use government power to promote and prioritize their religion while punishing non-Christians is the same as asking Christians to not be Christians. So, I guess this is nothing new for me, right?

----

So, why should I be concerned about Muslim immigration?

Should I be concerned because they will push for regressive social policy and culture that subjugates women and treats them as second class citizens? And because they oppose equal rights for LGBTQ persons? Or that they support government promotion of their religion as superior? Or that they'll pass regional unconstitutional laws that are overtly theocratic? Or is it because they hate atheists, gays, and people that are different from them? Yeah. . . I'd hate living in a country full of people like that. . . . . (in case it didn't come across, I'm drawing a comparison between Christians and Muslims)

Sharia Law and Christian Nationalism are two flavors of the same oppression as far as I'm concerned. I recognize that to you, they are black and white and miles apart, but I oppose both of them equally. What I suspect is that many Christians oppose Islamic immigration - not because they disagree on individual rights and the role of government - but because they share those exact views, and would rather see a Christian theocracy than an Islamic one.

Yes, my worldview is post-Christian. And while I think the term 'post-Christian' ought to be seen as a continuum, I would say that most of the West is already well down that path. Most of the West has adopted a level of acceptance of plurality. It places high value on individualism and individual rights and liberties rather than value on communal ideas and God-given mandates. There has been a shift toward secularism and away from the idea that religion owns a monopoly on moral philosophy. Western culture today is not necessarily rejection of Christian values, but rather a rejection of the idea that Christian values are the only values worthy of a voice. And the idea that post-Christian means anti-Christian belongs to those who actually have no concept of mind for people who aren't like themselves.

---

On a side note, I think its funny that Western Christians are so opposed to people going to a foreign country and using the political mechanisms available to promote a different religion apart from the dominant one. My God, the F%&(ing irony. . . .

I might be able to stomach the general Christian opposition to Muslim migration and cultural infiltration if it wasn't something they had been continuously guilty of for the last thousand years.

brother, i didn't read the OP and don't care about it.

i was pointing out that you don't see incompatibilities as long as people:

1) align with our constitutional values
2) are willing to subordinate their religious and moral framework where it differs with 1)

which is the same thing as saying "i don't see any incompatibilities as long as people see the world the same way i do"

it's a tautology - there's no incompatibility as long as they're compatible.

PabloSerna said:

---

" worship a different God "

I believe Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God- the God of Abraham.

---

same historical roots, different gods.

When you change the nature of the divinity, you change the god.

swimmerbabe11 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

" worship a different God "

I believe Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God- the God of Abraham.

---

same historical roots, different gods.

When you change the nature of the divinity, you change the god.

---

Agree.

you didn't ask me, but the patriarchs, Moses, and the prophets encountered the Word who they could touch and see. the Torah says no one can see God and live, but Moses spoke to God face to face as a man speaks to his friend. St John says that Word that is God but is not God the Father is Jesus Christ.

The God of Abraham is Jesus Christ.

If you deny Jesus Christ, you do not know the God of Abraham, because that's who He Is.

Zobel covered it; Christ is on every page of the old Testament.

Aren't you Catholic?

Well, our God has made Himself known. Anyone can claim to know Him, but Jesus Christ is His exact image.
"they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me."
"You do not know Me or My Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well."
"no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

If they reject Jesus, they don't know the Father. Whatever god they're talking about isn't the same as ours.