Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

IslanderAg04 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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infinity ag said:

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Well done.

AMERICA!!

Now let's abolish H1B program that is mercilessly raped and sodomized by corporations to get cheap slave labor.

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Do something that will cost companies money and cheap labor?!

Do you Capitalist, bro?

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I will give you some time to think deeply about what you just said.

(we are all capitalist, but we are nationalist first. Selling out to China, India and Mexico in the name of capitalism is why we are here today in this situation where everyone is taking advantage of us)

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So, country before profits at the expense of other countries taking advantage of us. I can so respect that.

Are you thinking that it would be best if we went back to pre-NAFTA ways?

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Yes.Nafta, ruined my Papa as it did most small sized cattle ranchers in Texas. When i say small I'm talking around 300 head.

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I feel you.

My pop lost his job when the company moved their operations right across the border. He and his buddies knew what was coming so they were prepared, but it didn't take the sting out of the place they'd worked at for so many years was gone.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

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Adding a new tax, and removing another isn't his job. Good luck getting Congress to do this.

Hagen95 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

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Adding a new tax, and removing another isn't his job. Good luck getting Congress to do this.

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So we should never actually try to change things?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Hagen95 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

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Adding a new tax, and removing another isn't his job. Good luck getting Congress to do this.

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So we should never actually try to change things?

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Change whatever you want, just do it the right way. Don't give more power to one branch of govt.

How is it giving more power to one branch of government?

Who is the new sheriff in town you posted about?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

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Yeah, that's not going to actually remove any taxes.

IslanderAg04 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Jack Boyette said:

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The people that think tariffs raise prices are the same people dumbfounded by the concept that lower tax rates increase tax revenue.

It's incredible how hard it is for some to grasp the concept of behavioral change.

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How does a tax on a good not raise prices?

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We have to pay taxes, why shouldn't they?

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A tarriff is a tax you pay, not "them"...you understand that right? It is a tax on the American people, not another country.

It's just a tool of economic warfare, that is all i think Trump sees it as. To him everything is a deal and he pushed this loudly during the campaign and is looking forward to the deal.
Truly, he does need to keep his mouth shut on some of the changes he intends on implementing. His telegraphing is next move prepares the managerial state to hunker down. I want them to be caught off guard, I'll prepared and dealt with swiftly

Ag_of_08 said:

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IslanderAg04 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Jack Boyette said:

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The people that think tariffs raise prices are the same people dumbfounded by the concept that lower tax rates increase tax revenue.

It's incredible how hard it is for some to grasp the concept of behavioral change.

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How does a tax on a good not raise prices?

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We have to pay taxes, why shouldn't they?

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A tarriff is a tax you pay, not "them"...you understand that right? It is a tax on the American people, not another country.

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Do you understand a tariff might cause an importer to lower their price to remain competitive? Give up some profit to protect their market share?

Theres nothing for them to compete against. We import the majority of things we need, theyll simply charge more.

Tarriffs have never caused prices to come down, especially protectionist tarriffs. There's no, and will be no, way for us to force "competition" for many many years either.

Thanks to our monetary system and inflation, there's veryblittle chance we could ever compete and still pay people enough to live.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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IslanderAg04 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Jack Boyette said:

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The people that think tariffs raise prices are the same people dumbfounded by the concept that lower tax rates increase tax revenue.

It's incredible how hard it is for some to grasp the concept of behavioral change.

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How does a tax on a good not raise prices?

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We have to pay taxes, why shouldn't they?

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A tarriff is a tax you pay, not "them"...you understand that right? It is a tax on the American people, not another country.

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Do you understand a tariff might cause an importer to lower their price to remain competitive? Give up some profit to protect their market share?

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It's always reported that after prices go up they rarely ever go back down, but if tariffs can get companies, and the shareholders, on board to lose profits, that would be a pleasant surprise.

Quote:

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Theres nothing for them to compete against. We import the majority of things we need, theyll simply charge more.

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Which creates opportunity for entrepreneurs to manufacture and sell here in America.

At the higher price. That's how protectionist tarriffs work.... pricing goes up on the item to make domestic production "competitive". Stagnation and complacency usually follow.

No matter how you phrase it, the policy is going to force prices up for everyone, at a time when most Americans are barely surviving.

If i won the lottery tomorrow it would be amazing as well... my odds are better than a company agreeing to give up profits voluntarily.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Wait until you're paying both, because the govt never truly gets rid of a tax....

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There's a new sheriff in town.

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Who won't be able to get income tax removed, nor probably even made better like a flat tax or whatever.

So....



.....tariffs will hurt everyone on top of taxes.

Yay?

Again, attack the problem conservatively not like a liberal moron.

If Biden propposed this exact idiocy this board would (rightly) lose its collective **** .

Sorry, I'm not a sycophant to a person, but I am to conservative principles. Trump has a great opportunity for a decent amount of change. This shouldn't be what he wastes time on.

He is attacking the problem conservatively, it's the lack of congressional support that's the problem yet you blame him for trying. Shouldn't you be supporting him as the self professed "true conservative "?

This is all Trump talking out of his ass I think. I don't think he's going to put a 25% tariff on Mexico and I darn sure don't think he's going to do it to Canada. Unless he really despises maple syrup.

Family friend imports furniture. About a decade ago it was all China. Then China was getting expensive so it became all Vietnam. Then to diversify and hedge transportation costs, they built a factory a Mexico.

The factories in China discount to help offset the increase in tariffs. However Vietnam sees the prices up in China so they raise their prices a little because they can. 25% tariff removes the cost advantage of purchasing a factory in Mexico but there's still benefit of shorter lead times. They don't know the value of that just yet.

All that to say, buy your furniture now.

Interesting. One of my staff's husband sells office furniture and he said the Canada 25% tariff would kill his business as a lot comes from Canada.

richardag said:

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Dan Scott said:

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We export 1.2MBD of petroleum product to Mexico. If you want to F up Mexico, you limit that. ExxonMobil and Valero will get pissed off though.

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Won't the price of the light crude we sell to Mexico increase? It is a world market so I guess the world price for all crude goes up?
Any experts here that can answer and what effects that has on taxes on the profits from the exported oil?

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It's a world market for products because they are traded freely in most circumstances. If the U.S. took 1.2MBls off the global market, global prices will rise, but in the U.S. prices would fall because we then have a supply glut in the United States assuming refiners keep same production levels.

WTI was at a decent discount to Brent before 2015 when crude exports were banned. Natural Gas is cheap because we produce a lot of it and it's trapped in the U.S. unless you convert it to LNG. In 2022 when Nat Gas prices were high, it was partly because we were exporting bigly. When there was an explosion at the biggest LNG facility, natural gas prices fell because there was more trapped.

In the short term, if you want lower energy prices, now that we produce a lot, we can limit exports. But Valero and ExxonMobil will get pissed because they want to sell for the highest price. Longer term they lose money, maybe more refiners shut down, more consolidation, and that's not good.

Tariffs or any solution cannot make EVERYONE happy. There will always be someone unhappy as they get impacted.

However, it is the job of the President to see that overall the US benefits. By that I mean its citizens collectively. Not just rich CEOs. Not just homeless, not just LGBTQ. Everyone, to the extent possible.

Everyone has taken advantage of the US in the last 25 years in the name of free trade and capitalism. Our pols have willingly and foolishly played into the hands of China, India and others. Time to regain control.

I don't care about buzzwords like capitalism or free trade or whatever.

DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR AMERICANS.
If that means capitalism or free trade or parts of each, that is fine. Do what is right for us.

Yep. And thankfully Trump cannot make all those decisions on his own. I'm still counting on the elected senators and congressman to do their jobs.

infinity ag said:

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I think the tax code needs to be fixed, it is still too complex and full of loopholes for the super wealthy.
Also, we need to ear-mark x % to pay off the debt. I don't know what that percentage is but we cannot let it grow forever.
$35T already.

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Get rid of tax exemptions!

Funky Winkerbean said:

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He is attacking the problem conservatively, it's the lack of congressional support that's the problem yet you blame him for trying. Shouldn't you be supporting him as the self professed "true conservative "?

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Tariffs are the opposite of conservative. So, no, I don't support that, but that's because I'm a conservative.


I support massive tax cuts, both personal and corporate, massive deregulation and enforcing immigration law, up to and including mass deportations.

But liberalism? No thanks, been tried and always fails.

BigRobSA said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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He is attacking the problem conservatively, it's the lack of congressional support that's the problem yet you blame him for trying. Shouldn't you be supporting him as the self professed "true conservative "?

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Tariffs are the opposite of conservative. So, no, I don't support that, but that's because I'm a conservative.


I support massive tax cuts, both personal and corporate, massive deregulation and enforcing immigration law, up to and including mass deportations.

But liberalism? No thanks, been tried and always fails.

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How many times do you have to be told? Right now, it's temporary to get people to the table. If he considers it long term, it will be with a reduction or elimination of income tax. You sound like a child with your conservative vs liberal analysis because you can't include all the pieces.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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How many times do you have to be told? Right now, it's temporary to get people to the table. If he considers it long term, it will be with a reduction or elimination of income tax. You sound like a child with your conservative vs liberal analysis because you can't include all the pieces.

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is he gonna give us all-day recess and a puppy too?

raising taxes on americans to get other countries to play ball might sound dandy to you, but that doesn't make it conservative.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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He is attacking the problem conservatively, it's the lack of congressional support that's the problem yet you blame him for trying. Shouldn't you be supporting him as the self professed "true conservative "?

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Tariffs are the opposite of conservative. So, no, I don't support that, but that's because I'm a conservative.


I support massive tax cuts, both personal and corporate, massive deregulation and enforcing immigration law, up to and including mass deportations.

But liberalism? No thanks, been tried and always fails.

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How many times do you have to be told? Right now, it's temporary to get people to the table. If he considers it long term, it will be with a reduction or elimination of income tax. You sound like a child with your conservative vs liberal analysis because you can't include all the pieces.

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The tax on phone service to help pay for the Spanish-American war was temporary, too. Until 2007.

Liberalism should never be resorted to, especially by an entity (govt) that never lets go once they've got their hooks in you.

And if you think income tax is going anywhere, I've got some Spurs NBA Champs 2024 shirts to sell you. I would love for it to be true, but I have an IQ above room temp, so I know that it won't and it is beyond dumb to facilitate idiocy in hopes that it will.

Thats already been debunked by CS.

Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo
@Claudiashein

En nuestra conversacin con el presidente Trump, le expuse la estrategia integral que ha seguido Mxico para atender el fenmeno migratorio, respetando los derechos humanos. Gracias a ello se atiende a las personas migrantes y a las caravanas previo a que lleguen a la frontera.

Reiteramos que la postura de Mxico no es cerrar fronteras sino tender puentes entre gobiernos y entre pueblos.

Translacin:

"In our conversation with president Trump, I explained to him the comprehensive strategy that Mexico has followed to address the migration phenomenon, respecting human rights. Thanks to this migrants and caravans are assisted before they reach the border. We reiterate that Mexico's position is not to close borders but to build bridges between governments and between peoples."

Sorry for the typos: I use a Spanish keyboard and any letter w an acento is removed automatically.

Old McDonald said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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How many times do you have to be told? Right now, it's temporary to get people to the table. If he considers it long term, it will be with a reduction or elimination of income tax. You sound like a child with your conservative vs liberal analysis because you can't include all the pieces.

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is he gonna give us all-day recess and a puppy too?

raising taxes on americans to get other countries to play ball might sound dandy to you, but that doesn't make it conservative.

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Old McDonald said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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How many times do you have to be told? Right now, it's temporary to get people to the table. If he considers it long term, it will be with a reduction or elimination of income tax. You sound like a child with your conservative vs liberal analysis because you can't include all the pieces.

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is he gonna give us all-day recess and a puppy too?

raising taxes on americans to get other countries to play ball might sound dandy to you, but that doesn't make it conservative.

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Then you should be very happy!

Libs love high taxes!

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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Big stick nationalism

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trump says tweet loudly and carry a yuuuuuge stick.

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tweet loudly.
Tariff loudlier

. As usual, republicans are going to fix the mess democrats made.

Do we really want to annex Canada? This would help us win the hockey gold. What else?

Elon approves of Trumps plan to make Canada 51st state 🇨🇦🤝🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/0kkrDnXks7

— TaraBull (@TaraBull808) December 3, 2024

and yes, I thought his shirt said that at first too....