dallasiteinsa02 said:

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Just stop the payments to anyone with an issue or is over the age of 100. Send them a letter that they need to go to a ss office to fix. My guess is that a ton will never fix.

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I like this idea.
The best solution is to just stop the money train. Things will resolve itself. Then go after the fraudsters.

Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

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12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

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i heard a story about thirty or so years ago that I always figured was fiction. But you never know.

According to the story, illegal aliens applying for driver's licenses would often use duplicate social security numbers and the driver's license people were often told not to challenge them on that. The story then went on to say that one time at one driver's license office, every applicant one day had the same social security number.

That seems too crazy to be true, but I don't know that it isn't.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

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Yippee!! It's not fraud that's wasting our money, just gross negligence and incompetence!

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There probably is money being wasted, but that's not what Musk is reporting here.

You would think an agency/department like this would have some type of check on this type of thing. However, I would imagine the people who are running and designing these systems say, "well that would never happen" when asked how does the system ensure this doesn't happen.

Point out where Elon said this is unequivocally fraud. I'll wait. It'll be a while.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Point out where Elon said this is unequivocally fraud. I'll wait. It'll be a while.

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Again, I didn't say he said that. I'm talking about people in this thread that said it.

G Martin 87 said:

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eric76 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

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12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

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i heard a story about thirty or so years ago that I always figured was fiction. But you never know.

According to the story, illegal aliens applying for driver's licenses would often use duplicate social security numbers and the driver's license people were often told not to challenge them on that. The story then went on to say that one time at one driver's license office, every applicant one day had the same social security number.

That seems too crazy to be true, but I don't know that it isn't.

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It's definitely possible. The consistent problem that all of Elon's research has found so far is that data controls that would prevent governmental fraud, waste, and abuse are simply missing.

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The very definition of a feature not a bug. But hey, all us private sector peeps get run through more government audits a year than Fort Knox has seen in fifty.

TexasAggiesWin said:

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You would think an agency/department like this would have some type of check on this type of thing. However, I would imagine the people who are running and designing these systems say, "well that would never happen" when asked how does the system ensure this doesn't happen.

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From the 2023 SSA IG report https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf

Quote:

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In response to our 2015 report, SSA considered multiple options, including adding presumed
death information to these Numident records. SSA ultimately decided not to proceed because
the "
. . . options would be costly to implement, would be of little benefit to the agency, would
largely duplicate information already available to data exchange consumers and would create
cost for the states and other data exchange partners."16 SSA also believed a regulation would
be required to allow it to add death information to these records, and adding presumed death
information to the Numident would increase the risk of inadvertent release of living individuals'
personal information in the DMF.
We note that, as of January 2023, the full DMF included death information on approximately
137 million deceased numberholders. Over 18 million missing death records represents more
than 10 percent of the records in the full DMF. Therefore, the death information SSA currently
provides Federal benefit-paying agencies--and will begin providing to the Department of the
Treasury's Do Not Pay initiative in December 2023--to help prevent improper payments to
deceased individuals, omit information for more than 1 of every 10 deceased numberholders.

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The SSA identified this issue in 2015 and deliberately didn't fix it.

Logos Stick said:

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BusterAg said:

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This certainly shows that the SSN database is complete crap, and needs to be re-written.

But, does it really show fraud?

I would think that there would need to be Xref between this database and the payments database. If money is coming into or out of the treasury for some of these really old numbers, that would prove fraud.

I am sure that there are some really, really old SSN numbers that are being illegally used. This database doesn't really show that.

But, it does show gross incompetence of whoever the database administrator is. Everyone that has ever touched this database from an IT management perspective should be fired unless they can prove that they have complained about it up the chain.

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I don't believe they have a relational database on the backend.

I say that because Elon responded to someone who was talking about SQL and not having a primary key for SS number. Elon laughed and said, what makes you think they use SQL?

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Id be highly surprised if this were modern at all. I fully expect to be mainframe along with most of the government, including the IRS.

Looks like SS paid out to 53,738,000 people in Jan 2025

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/

Unfortunately Elon's numbers don't show 65+ but according to his numbers there are over 54 million people in his groups 70-79, 80-89, and 90-99

deddog said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

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12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

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Hanlon's razor:

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Other wise you're suggesting that 1 out of every 30 people is defrauding SS. Which sounds more plausible? That? Or that SSA just doesn't have their act together?

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The most logical explanation isn't fat fingering. It's simply not updating people when they are dead.

You know, like voter rolls.

Its convenient, and provides plausible deniability when you or your friends commit fraud.

This is a nice way to make sure illegal immigrants have a nice pool of social security numbers that they can use without any problem and allows treasury to send tax refunds to illegals.

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I think you are right about people not updating when people die. That seems most likely the case.

HOWEVER.

I want to know how many people over 100 have drawn SSN checks. What is the oldest age that someone has drawn a check? Musk should post that information also.

At this point, it could all be 0 fraud and 100% negligence but it is likely there was a lot of fraud. We don't know yet.

Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

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10's of millions of birthday were fat fingered...uh huh lol.

It's a combination of fraud & error with the majority of the waste being fraud.

When my Mom had her stroke and went into the nursing home, the nursing home had me assign her SS monthly payment (about $2,200 per month) to them. I always assumed the nursing home notified SSA of her passing but seeing these numbers, now I wonder if they don't always report the deaths of those in their care? If there is not family remaining close by and the body is buried, say in another state?

infinity ag said:

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deddog said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

---

12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

---

Hanlon's razor:

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Other wise you're suggesting that 1 out of every 30 people is defrauding SS. Which sounds more plausible? That? Or that SSA just doesn't have their act together?

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The most logical explanation isn't fat fingering. It's simply not updating people when they are dead.

You know, like voter rolls.

Its convenient, and provides plausible deniability when you or your friends commit fraud.

This is a nice way to make sure illegal immigrants have a nice pool of social security numbers that they can use without any problem and allows treasury to send tax refunds to illegals.

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I think you are right about people not updating when people die. That seems most likely the case.

HOWEVER.

I want to know how many people over 100 have drawn SSN checks. What is the oldest age that someone has drawn a check? Musk should post that information also.

At this point, it could all be 0 fraud and 100% negligence but it is likely there was a lot of fraud. We don't know yet.

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I'd like to know if and how many of these 64 million SSNs were used for election fraud.

This has been known for a while. It was just never fixed.
https://oig-files.ssa.gov/audits/full/A-06-14-34030_0.pdf

https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf

Jeeper79 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

---

12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

---

Hanlon's razor:

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Other wise you're suggesting that 1 out of every 30 people is defrauding SS. Which sounds more plausible? That? Or that SSA just doesn't have their act together?

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You're assuming that the 1 out of 30 are individual people. It's much more likely that one individual, multiplied by x,l is receiving many, many SS checks.

Biden/Harris was so bad, even the people who voted Democrat the last 200 years of their lives voted for Trump.

Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

---

12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

---

Hanlon's razor:

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Other wise you're suggesting that 1 out of every 30 people is defrauding SS. Which sounds more plausible? That? Or that SSA just doesn't have their act together?

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You're assuming that the 1 out of 30 are individual people. It's much more likely that one individual, multiplied by x,l is receiving many, many SS checks.

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Exactly, a lot of small checks draws less attention than 1 big check. Especially to an agency that has over a million 100 year olds

I wouldn't say it is fraud, but I am certain that it allows a lot of fraud.

Grandpa passes away but no one contacts SSA. The checks keep coming in and getting cashed and spent.

At the very least, however, the decennial census should require confirmation of every individual receiving SS checks.

Remember, it's not just fraud that is the problem.

The entire phrase is "fraud, waste, and abuse."

Well, should be easy to locate and make arrests.

aggiehawg said:

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When my Mom had her stroke and went into the nursing home, the nursing home had me assign her SS monthly payment (about $2,200 per month) to them. I always assumed the nursing home notified SSA of her passing but seeing these numbers, now I wonder if they don't always report the deaths of those in their care? If there is not family remaining close by and the body is buried, say in another state?

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The funeral home usually does this, along with sending off the info to the state for the death certificate

I am a programmer/developer with decades of experience. All of this --- the dates, the numbers etc ... ---- are due to Musk's stupidity and inability to understand what he sees. And he's got a huge megaphone to blast the rest of us with his stupidity.

I really do fear for our nation.

I'd love to see the number of SSNs tied to an address. For everyone that pops with ten of more people in one home send ICE over to check for illegals.

dallasiteinsa02 said:

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Just stop the payments to anyone with an issue or is over the age of 100. Send them a letter that they need to go to a ss office to fix. My guess is that a ton will never fix.

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Stop all of the payments to everyone. Make all SS recipients go there in person with valid ID to get it restarted and make SSDI recipients get another medical evaluation by big balls and his staff.

Problem solved.

Jeeper79 said:

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Red Fishing Ag93 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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The most logical explanation is not fraud. The most logical explanation is fat fingering birthdays and other bad data.

Seriously, if someone were trying to defraud the government, there are better ways to fly under the radar than pretending your immortal.

Doesn't mean there aren't things that should be fixed, but a lot yall jump to fraud way too fast.

---

12.4 million times? Doubtful.

Also, why even have social security numbers if duplicity has been allowed this whole time. What did these people even do at work.

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Hanlon's razor:

Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Other wise you're suggesting that 1 out of every 30 people is defrauding SS. Which sounds more plausible? That? Or that SSA just doesn't have their act together?

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Nm, CanyonAg77 beat me to it.

Logos Stick said:

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Charpie said:

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Wasn't this whole date thing attributed to the programing language being in COBALT and the fact that some of the birthdates were blank?

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So there are 390 million records in the SS database with blank fields for birthdate. Also, COBOL doesn't have DATE data type.

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You can insert Oracle statements directly into COBOL. You can reduce programming from pages on end to a few short lines.

Was doing this first hand in 1994 - 1996. Damn, I am old.

Charpie said:

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Wasn't this whole date thing attributed to the programing language being in COBALT and the fact that some of the birthdates were blank?

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Cobalt - Sorry, I had to laugh...

It's nice and blue

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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At this point I'm just assuming everyone in America is getting some sort of kickback. And I'm the only one who got left out.

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It's theft on a grand scale and this is a swamp thing not a Dem or Rep thing because its happened on both of their watches.

infinity ag said:

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Charpie said:

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That's not the way COBOL works, from what I understand. It allows for blank values like that.I mean, it's COBOL

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I programmed COBOL back in 1988. The only thing I remember from that is "Working Storage Section".

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"ABEND" - that should bring back fond memories!

dallasiteinsa02 said:

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Just stop the payments to anyone with an issue or is over the age of 100. Send them a letter that they need to go to a ss office to fix. My guess is that a ton will never fix.

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There are approximately 23% of Americans over age 65, or 78MM. That chart shows almost 120MM Americans over the age of 60.

Yes, stop all checks over age of 100, and give notice to everyone else getting checks that they have x amount of time to verify before those checks stop also.

coconutED said:

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12.4 M people 120 and older. Somebody call Guinness, their records need updating.

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Whatever their lifestyle, I want some of that!