Tom Fox said:

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infinity ag said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Buy it from an insurance company if you want it. No exchanges. It should just be for catastrophic coverage. Not day to day medical care. That should be paid in cash by the customer.

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Sounds logical to me. If I buy my auto from Geico, why can't I buy Health from BCBS?
Why isn't this being done?
Everyone is petrified about losing their jobs not because of the wage, but because of the insurance.

My conspiracy theory is that the scumbag CEOs of America conspired to add this as a perk and make it so expensive that people are forced to work for them to get an endless supply if slaves. This was before they figured out that they would use H1Bs from India as slaves. Now they have too many slaves and not enough work.

Health insurance costs are still a big unknown. If it is decoupled from employment then many more people will quit rather than work a toxic job.

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I think you are correct on corporate motivations for coupling health insurance with employment, but you can buy health insurance and be self employed. It is certainly more expensive, but I have found the quality of option to be pretty good.

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Disagree. Obamacare has destroyed me as a self employed for individual coverage. I have gotten steadily worse coverage for more money since then, and dropped multiple times from the big insurance companies. With a group plan id probably be ok, but needing an individual plan, it's been embarrassing. I used to have best of the best as an affordable option 15 years ago. Now I have an HMO with a 9k deductible, with very little covered. Yeah, I'm glad its good for you, but saying that it has been bad for me would be being too nice.

And don't get me started on coverage of my meds. Im not sure how this whole situation will play out, but I'm currently paying over $1k per month for meds to keep me alive, with insurance (discounted?). Used to be completely covered before ACA, now I'm lucky if a company covers it at all. Most won't even approve it. Ive been dropped by more than a few companies because I'm a bad investment I suppose. Strangely enough, the HMOs are more likely to at least approve it, just have to factor it into my ridiculous deductible.

The more you make, the worse the coverage from my experience. At least if you're self employed.

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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Tom Fox said:

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infinity ag said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Buy it from an insurance company if you want it. No exchanges. It should just be for catastrophic coverage. Not day to day medical care. That should be paid in cash by the customer.

---

Sounds logical to me. If I buy my auto from Geico, why can't I buy Health from BCBS?
Why isn't this being done?
Everyone is petrified about losing their jobs not because of the wage, but because of the insurance.

My conspiracy theory is that the scumbag CEOs of America conspired to add this as a perk and make it so expensive that people are forced to work for them to get an endless supply if slaves. This was before they figured out that they would use H1Bs from India as slaves. Now they have too many slaves and not enough work.

Health insurance costs are still a big unknown. If it is decoupled from employment then many more people will quit rather than work a toxic job.

---

I think you are correct on corporate motivations for coupling health insurance with employment, but you can buy health insurance and be self employed. It is certainly more expensive, but I have found the quality of option to be pretty good.

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Disagree. Obamacare has destroyed me as a self employed for individual coverage. I have gotten steadily worse coverage for more money since then, and dropped multiple times from the big insurance companies. With a group plan id probably be ok, but needing an individual plan, it's been embarrassing. I used to have best of the best as an affordable option 15 years ago. Now I have an HMO with a 9k deductible, with very little covered. Yeah, I'm glad its good for you, but saying that it has been bad for me would be being too nice.

And don't get me started on coverage of my meds. Im not sure how this whole situation will play out, but I'm currently paying over $1k per month for meds to keep me alive, with insurance (discounted?). Used to be completely covered before ACA, now I'm lucky if a company covers it at all. Most won't even approve it. Ive been dropped by more than a few companies because I'm a bad investment I suppose. Strangely enough, the HMOs are more likely to at least approve it, just have to factor it into my ridiculous deductible.

The more you make, the worse the coverage from my experience. At least if you're self employed.

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I am self employed and do have 6 other people on our plan. It is better than I had with the government but six times as expensive.

1. Cancel Biden's executive order on drug prices.
2. Create a crisis.
3. Write the same executive order.
4. Take credit.

People are so dumb and gullible

It has been discussed but here is the issue:

Yes, drugs are costly because many fail before approval.

However, the price manipulation against US consumers must stop. Medicaid/Medicare fostered this abuse. When you continually manipulate excessive pricing and there's no checks then it only grows. There is zero reason for equal drugs to be sold overseas for a tenth or hundredth of the price. If anything, charge foreign nations more, they didn't create or facilitate this in any way shape or form.

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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Tom Fox said:

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infinity ag said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Buy it from an insurance company if you want it. No exchanges. It should just be for catastrophic coverage. Not day to day medical care. That should be paid in cash by the customer.

---

Sounds logical to me. If I buy my auto from Geico, why can't I buy Health from BCBS?
Why isn't this being done?
Everyone is petrified about losing their jobs not because of the wage, but because of the insurance.

My conspiracy theory is that the scumbag CEOs of America conspired to add this as a perk and make it so expensive that people are forced to work for them to get an endless supply if slaves. This was before they figured out that they would use H1Bs from India as slaves. Now they have too many slaves and not enough work.

Health insurance costs are still a big unknown. If it is decoupled from employment then many more people will quit rather than work a toxic job.

---

I think you are correct on corporate motivations for coupling health insurance with employment, but you can buy health insurance and be self employed. It is certainly more expensive, but I have found the quality of option to be pretty good.

---

Disagree. Obamacare has destroyed me as a self employed for individual coverage. I have gotten steadily worse coverage for more money since then, and dropped multiple times from the big insurance companies. With a group plan id probably be ok, but needing an individual plan, it's been embarrassing. I used to have best of the best as an affordable option 15 years ago. Now I have an HMO with a 9k deductible, with very little covered. Yeah, I'm glad its good for you, but saying that it has been bad for me would be being too nice.

And don't get me started on coverage of my meds. Im not sure how this whole situation will play out, but I'm currently paying over $1k per month for meds to keep me alive, with insurance (discounted?). Used to be completely covered before ACA, now I'm lucky if a company covers it at all. Most won't even approve it. Ive been dropped by more than a few companies because I'm a bad investment I suppose. Strangely enough, the HMOs are more likely to at least approve it, just have to factor it into my ridiculous deductible.

The more you make, the worse the coverage from my experience. At least if you're self employed.

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Liberalism.

Gaping citizens since it was first thought up.

Repeal Obamacare, Medicare/Aid, EMTALA, etc.

infinity ag said:

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My conspiracy theory is that the scumbag CEOs of America conspired to add this as a perk and make it so expensive that people are forced to work for them to get an endless supply if slaves. This was before they figured out that they would use H1Bs from India as slaves. Now they have too many slaves and not enough work.

Health insurance costs are still a big unknown. If it is decoupled from employment then many more people will quit rather than work a toxic job.

---

You can thank the govt during WW2 for wage/price controls. That drove companies to offer benefits packages, as the only method to be better than the next employer you might be looking at. Better employees got better bennies. Aaaaand, here we are.

Liberalism, like govt interference, always....ALWAYS....****s us. And not in the fun way.

Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

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It won't stymie r&d. Big Pharma can't sell the drugs to us at those prices. Thus they will raise the prices for those countries. If those countries refuse to pay they will get no drugs. Those countries won't do that. They can't do that. They will have no choice but to pay. The profit center is America.

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Maybe. Maybe not. I know we have the best Pharma and medical industry in the world right now. I'd like to keep it that way and see no reason to risk it.

Eliminating the socialized components of our healthcare system is the answer. Not adding more.

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Mo'nica!!

This is all about reducing stupid profits that are fed to newspapers thru advertising and to corrupt politicians.

It is a brilliant move to cut off revenue streams to the bad guys.

Eso si, Que es said:

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80/20 propositions are the best, can't wait to see idiots contort themselves to defend big pharma.

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Well,

They don't really need to contort themselves to any position because unlike conservatives and (ugh) liberals, they have no ideology; they simply reverse engineer their "logic" from the established, foregone conclusion that whatever Dear Leader says and does is the right thing.

But we all already knew that.

Live in Panama and private health insurance is notably cheaper than in the U.S. and you can buy equivalent meds in Colombia next door for seemingly half the price as U.S. Health care quality as good And access to doctors has a 'personal, small town feel' and don't have to wait weeks to get an appointment.

Now…I will caveat the above that I am in the middle/upper class using the private healthcare system here….not the free social security provided health care system which serves the lower class and although usually same quality of doctor has lower quality facilities and much longer wait times.

But if a middle class American and you were comparing health care ROI in Panama versus U.S…..it isn't much of decision. Panama wins except for specialized surgery situations which might make more sense to schedule and perform in the States.

When I moved from Pennsylvania to Panama about 25 years ago, I stopped having to pay any PA state and city taxes, Panama had no property taxes for first 10 years if bought a new home, health care costs got cut in half, and I got away from all cold weather. Never had much regrets since. I still love the U.S. and am proud of my country but there are pros and cons to living there.

When corporations give you health insurance benefits they can include it in the "total compensation" number they can use to attract employees and retain talent.

However they don't pay taxes on what they contribute to your Health Insurance.

This is all about increasing their compensation packages and reducing their tax liability and what they have to contribute in the way of employee taxes. This started in the 50's and 60's.

If the government removed this incentive for employers to provide insurance then employers would stop offering it because the cost of HR and pain in negotiating with isrers and setting up the benefits portals and keeping them updated is a drain on resources. This drain is offset by the tax savings the company is given through not having to payroll taxes on this side of an employee's compensation package.

Somehow the government got the bright idea that they should incentive companies to provide health insurance instead of letting people buy whatever the **** they wanted on the private market like with all other insurance.

And then they got the bright idea to create a health exchange where healthy people have to pay the same rates as the obese amd infirm.

If someone with common sense and no ulterior motive got ahold of our healthcare system and was given Carte Blanche they cpuld fix it in 2 years and lower prices for everyone.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Live in Panama and private health insurance is notably cheaper than in the U.S. and you can buy equivalent meds in Colombia next door for seemingly half the price as U.S. Health care quality as good And access to doctors seems easier and more 'personal, small town feel' and don't have to wait weeks to get an appointment.

Now…I will caveat the above that I am in the middle/upper class using the private healthcare system here….not the free social security provided health care system which serves the lower class and although usually same quality of doctor has lower quality facilities and much longer wait times.

But if a middle class American and you were comparing health care ROI in Panama versus U.S…..it isn't much of decision. Panama wins except for specialized surgery situations which might make more sense to schedule and perform in the States.

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Curious, are you retired down there?

If pharmaceutical firms would stop all their useless advertising on tv, it would save millions. The government stopped years ago from giving perks to doctors. Saw some great concerts and had some great meals till they cut it off. My wife is the doctor.

Logos Stick said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Live in Panama and private health insurance is notably cheaper than in the U.S. and you can buy equivalent meds in Colombia next door for seemingly half the price as U.S. Health care quality as good And access to doctors seems easier and more 'personal, small town feel' and don't have to wait weeks to get an appointment.

Now…I will caveat the above that I am in the middle/upper class using the private healthcare system here….not the free social security provided health care system which serves the lower class and although usually same quality of doctor has lower quality facilities and much longer wait times.

But if a middle class American and you were comparing health care ROI in Panama versus U.S…..it isn't much of decision. Panama wins except for specialized surgery situations which might make more sense to schedule and perform in the States.

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Curious, are you retired down there?

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Not yet. Married a Panamanian and ultimately moved here and have been working remote for a U.S. company since 1999.

TexasAggie73 said:

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If pharmaceutical firms would stop all their useless advertising on tv, it would save millions. The government stopped years ago from giving perks to doctors. Saw some great concerts and had some great meals till they cut it off. My wife is the doctor.

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Well, since the price Pharma decides has zero to do with costs, the price you and I pay for drugs would go down exactly $0.00 if they did away with advertising.

Now, I'm not against doing away with drug companies convincing dumbasses that they need some drug by advertising to them. But, the price of medicine would not go down by getting rid of advertising. The cost of Medicare would go down for sure.

TAMUallen said:

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It has been discussed but here is the issue:

Yes, drugs are costly because many fail before approval.

However, the price manipulation against US consumers must stop. Medicaid/Medicare fostered this abuse. When you continually manipulate excessive pricing and there's no checks then it only grows. There is zero reason for equal drugs to be sold overseas for a tenth or hundredth of the price. If anything, charge foreign nations more, they didn't create or facilitate this in any way shape or form.

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but but but our white guilt makes us responsible for blacks and browns from other countries... we need to atone for our past sins.... which makes it imperative that we send them aid with no strings attached, free medicines even if we have to make up the cost by charging Americans more.... and of course, send them the best tech jobs because we hate our own citizens and love foreigners.

Science Denier said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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If pharmaceutical firms would stop all their useless advertising on tv, it would save millions. The government stopped years ago from giving perks to doctors. Saw some great concerts and had some great meals till they cut it off. My wife is the doctor.

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Well, since the price Pharma decides has zero to do with costs, the price you and I pay for drugs would go down exactly $0.00 if they did away with advertising.

Now, I'm not against doing away with drug companies convincing dumbasses that they need some drug by advertising to them. But, the price of medicine would not go down by getting rid of advertising. The cost of Medicare would go down for sure.

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Most of the ads should be on comedy central...


"This medicine for your allergies comes with these possible side effects:

-a desire for animal love
-your heart might explode in your chest
-anal leakage
-extreme body odor
-psychotic behavior in children and teens "

Nah, bro....I'm good with some sniffles.

BigRobSA said:

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Science Denier said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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If pharmaceutical firms would stop all their useless advertising on tv, it would save millions. The government stopped years ago from giving perks to doctors. Saw some great concerts and had some great meals till they cut it off. My wife is the doctor.

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Well, since the price Pharma decides has zero to do with costs, the price you and I pay for drugs would go down exactly $0.00 if they did away with advertising.

Now, I'm not against doing away with drug companies convincing dumbasses that they need some drug by advertising to them. But, the price of medicine would not go down by getting rid of advertising. The cost of Medicare would go down for sure.

---

Most of the ads should be on comedy central...


"This medicine for your allergies comes with these possible side effects:

-a desire for animal love
-your heart might explode in your chest
-anal leakage
-extreme body odor
-psychotic behavior in children and teens "

Nah, bro....I'm good with some sniffles.

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My favorite

"Don't take this medicine if you are allergic to it"

Josh Hawley just put a whipping on a PBM lobbyist on CSPAN. Hopefully he will post it online.

Jeeper79 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Tom Fox said:

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coconutED said:

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Tom Fox said:

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coconutED said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Then negotiate with those countries.

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You mean like Trump is doing with tariffs? Funny, you didn't like those either...

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You're confusing me with other posters. I had no issue with using tariffs to protect US companies. It will raise prices on consumers because the cost will be passed along to them but I did not care about it. Tariffs have been used against foreigners since our nations inception.

This is doing the opposite. He is targeting US companies and setting their prices based on what they are charging other customers.

It would be the same as telling me that I have to charge every legal client the same rate, which I certainly do not. It is none of the government's business what I charge unless they are contracting my services for themselves and even then they do not get to mandate what I charge, they can obviously take their business elsewhere if they do not like my pricing.

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Except that it was not you who determined that billing rate: certain clients demanded to be charged an unprofitable rate for your services, and you acquiesced, and raised rates for others in order to compensate. Now, those other clients are demanding they get the same deal.

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I get to decide what my rate is for each client and whether it is profitable for me or not. Not the government. And hell, I provide a constitutionally mandated service. If I want to sell my service to the government, of course they can dictate that price, they are a large player in the market. But I do not have to do business with them at all and can set my price for private customers.l without interference from them other than they also provide the service but at a much lower performance. Hence, people pay the prices that I set rather than use to government option. The government shouldn't even be in my market as a competitor to begin with.

If other clients demand the same rate and I do not want to do so, they can take their business elsewhere or pay the price that I set. I currently have some clients being charged triple for the same service. If they want the service, they pay it. If not they can do without.

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If Phama doesn't want to give the US their best pricing, they don't have to. They just can't sell here. Just as in your case, Trump will take our market elsewhere and not do business with them.

This is no different that what you are saying.

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Its completely different. But it's clear you can't see the difference.

Or let's try another exercise… if this isn't price controls, what do real price controls look like in your mind?

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Gas costs $2.15 to make. Government says no gas will be sold under $2.00 per gallon.

It's not really that hard.

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So the government sets a benchmark and won't allow a sale below that benchmark. How is this any different other than how the benchmark is defined?

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No, Pharma sets the benchmark. They can charge whatever they want for their product. We just have to get the best price. They want to sell a pill for $1,000, fine. Charge everyone that price.

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The government is declaring that there's even a benchmark to begin with. You're looking for a loophole that isn't there. They're exerting control over price. It's a price control.

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No, it isn't.

Science Denier said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Science Denier said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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If pharmaceutical firms would stop all their useless advertising on tv, it would save millions. The government stopped years ago from giving perks to doctors. Saw some great concerts and had some great meals till they cut it off. My wife is the doctor.

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Well, since the price Pharma decides has zero to do with costs, the price you and I pay for drugs would go down exactly $0.00 if they did away with advertising.

Now, I'm not against doing away with drug companies convincing dumbasses that they need some drug by advertising to them. But, the price of medicine would not go down by getting rid of advertising. The cost of Medicare would go down for sure.

---

Most of the ads should be on comedy central...


"This medicine for your allergies comes with these possible side effects:

-a desire for animal love
-your heart might explode in your chest
-anal leakage
-extreme body odor
-psychotic behavior in children and teens "

Nah, bro....I'm good with some sniffles.

---

My favorite

"Don't take this medicine if you are allergic to it"

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Yep

Science Denier said:

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Tom Fox said:

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We are less than 2 decades away from UHC if we do not do just that. Buckle up.

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Maybe. Better than 50 million people going bankrupt in 3 years due to medical costs. Do you know what the voting public would do to Republicans if that happened?

70 D senators and 300 D congressmen + a D in the White House would make us beg for UHC.

I don't want to think about it.

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What you aren't seeing is that insurance companies are for profit. Even if the gravy train of Medicare and Medicaid were to magically stop, there is absolutely no way that anybody - insurance, medical field, pharma - is going to look at a group of 50mm people and walk away from a customer base that is 20% of the entire population of this country.

In every single product or service, when the government gets out of the way the costs go down. Every time.

TexasAggie73 said:

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rocky the dog said:

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FWIW...

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Check how much drug companies gave to Trump's inauguration parties. It was not a small sum.

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"Inauguration parties" Now compare Campain funds to Campain funds. This tells you who they WANTED elected. That is who they bought. Post election party money is "Sorry we went all in on your competitor. Here is some money to celebrate your win. No hard feelings, right? "

Not sure if this belongs here, but had a jaw dropping prescription price today that floored me.

Went to the dermatologist this morning because I have rosacea. I used to take doxycycline when I was in my 20's and the prescription was <$10 per prescription. I went almost 20 years without it flaring up, but it flared back up a few months ago. I started using some topical cream my wife has (she has it as well) for when hers flares up, but I can't get good coverage on my cheeks due to my beard, so I decided it was time to go back and get the oral medication. As I thought she would, she prescribed me doxycycline again...100mg to get it under control and then 40mg to take each day to maintain it. No problem.

The cost of the 100mg? ~$11. Not bad. The 40mg? $65! When I asked why it was so much, the lady at the pharmacy told me it was because of my insurance. I asked how much if I just didn't use my insurance, and I almost had a seizure when she said $748! I confirmed that it was a generic and she said it was. WTF?

If I didn't have insurance, it would be cheaper to do a long weekend in Cancun and buy it down there for like $3.

https://fishick.com/products/fish-doxycycline-tablets-60-count/

Huh...

aTm2004 said:

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Huh...

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If he didn't have insurance they should buy it there. No scrip required.

Government sticking their noses in student loans and health insurance has been a success so surely this will work out

Tom Fox said:

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https://fishick.com/products/fish-doxycycline-tablets-60-count/

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Fish medicine. Who knew?

Cobra39

KillerAg21 said:

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Socialist polices. I think this is a great step in the correct direction. I just think it's funny that yall don't realize it is socialist. Now I just have to get yall to agree to Universal Healthcare and we will be peas in a pod.

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In your opinion, why and how would universal health care in this country ever be better than what the VA system is right now?

The healthcare system in the U.S. seems so f***-ed that many people would probably be better off financially if retired in another country.

Pumpkinhead said:

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The healthcare system in the U.S. is so f***-ed that many people would probably be better off financially retiring in another country.

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Thats my plan, at least for a while.

I was in Vietnam on vacation for 3 weeks back in February. I got Bali belly and ended up going to a hospital in Da Nang. I've been to 60+ countries and have been sick before but this was the worst. The hospital was very clean, organized and the staff was very easy to deal with. I showed up, went right to my own room and the doctor was in my room within 5 minutes. She asked me lots of questions in good English, checked around my abdomen and the usual bedside tests. I then went in for x-ray and ultrasound immediately. Ran those tests and back to my room. When I arrived in the room, 2 IVs were ready to be inserted. About 30 minutes later, they brought my girlfriend a plate of fruit and snacks. About 45-60 minutes later, the doctor came in with results and a list of medicine to be picked up from the onsite pharmacy. I was given 4 pills, electrolyte packets. I was in and out in less than 2.5hrs.

This visit cost me $82. I can only imagine how much more $ it would cost and how much longer it would be if I was in the US.