KillerAg21 said:

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Wow Trump is turning into a socialist commie. I wonder how MAGA is going to conform itself to being for free market capitalism yet rooting for socialist polices like this.

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Prescription Drugs are in no way shape or form "free market capitalism" in the US.

But you already knew that, nice try with the gotcha.

BigRobSA said:

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captkirk said:

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KillerAg21 said:

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Wow Trump is turning into a socialist commie. I wonder how MAGA is going to conform itself to being for free market capitalism yet rooting for socialist polices like this.

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Poster Doesn't know what free market means

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Obviously, the medical market isn't truly free market. Hasn't been for decades.

You don't fix that with more liberalism/market interference.

The only effective move is to remove the aforementioned interference. But, he's a lib so he only knows the one thing.

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What is the process for that? Please lay out the steps that a president could legally take within a timeframe that attempts to address the issue NOW, not years later.

Logos Stick said:

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I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.

Trump is going to war with drug companies over their pricing in this country. pic.twitter.com/uKx8pTxK4Z

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) May 11, 2025

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This isn't true price controls. Price controls set a price. Pharma can charge what they want they just can't charge us more in the US than they charge elsewhere. Price controls are when government says you can only charge X in spite of your costs.

BigRobSA said:

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Teslag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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mlb87 said:

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My wife is in pharmaceutical research and the element driving up the costs are the FDA requirements. Folks outside the business have no idea how cumbersome and extensive these are. I do however agree that US consumers shouldn't be bearing the lion share of the costs.

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Yep. And that's part of a conservative policy, removing said requirements (if not the entire dept).

Too bad Trump isn't in charge of that dept.

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How far do you want to take this? Allow a free for all where drug companies can market however they want, claim whatever they want, test however they want, and sell whatever they want with no Rx needed? No government is no government. At all.

And the only recourse against harm is you trying to hire a lawyer to fight against a drug company and their endless ability to fund a legal team that is representing a client that was under no obligation to test and record keep under regulatory oversite?

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I'd want a UL sort of entity to do what the FDA is supposed to do. They suck at it, as shown by the failure of an injectable pre-therapeutic and so many others, and yet they skew the market via excessive regulations.

A private, non-profit entity like an Underwriters Laboratory would do well in this realm.

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And who watches over them with pharma starts bribing them?

> Other countries tell our pharma companies: “Sell your drug for 5 cents or we’ll ban it”
> The drug cost $10B to discover, but each pill only costs 1 cent to make
> So the pharma co does it, then charges US $10k per pill
> Trump bans this
> Libertarians: “Noooo my free market!”

— Roman Helmet Guy (@romanhelmetguy) May 12, 2025

PacoPicoPiedra said:

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The bulk of what Big Pharma creates and manufactures is absolute trash and horrible for your body. Their system has created addicts abound and is little more than legal drug dealing. Continual treatment versus prevention is the name of the game with Big Pharma and the U.S. medical system, and people are willing to pay the price (whether out of pocket or through premiums) because they "need" the drugs. Between masking symptoms and creating side effects for which more pharmaceuticals are prescribed, Big Pharma is churning and burning, hand over fist. My disdain for price controls runs a very distant second to my enormous distaste for the pharmaceutical industry.

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Actually, the bulk of what pharmaceutical companies are prescribed outside of indication, leading to a few experiencing unpleasant side effects, which are then blown out of proportion, leading to language such as this. You have no idea what value the pharmaceutical industry brings to all of us. Are pricing concessions necessary in today's political climate, …probably. Vilification of an entire industry? Nope.

BREAKING: Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna has expressed his intention to introduce President Trump’s executive order to reduce prescription drug prices in Congress as a bipartisan bill. pic.twitter.com/DHjZje8r8i

— Leading Report (@LeadingReport) May 12, 2025

For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

The issue is that each pharma product under patent is a de facto monopoly. There is no free market in play. When you have a situation that's, pay us a million dollars or die - what choice do people have?

Getting the FDA out of it, or at least scaling them way back, would go along way towards lowering prices.

rocky the dog said:

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Well, the left hates anything Trump does, but they also hate the fact that he gets most things that he sets out to do that is the best for the American people. They really hate that.

I remember when Trump had insulin prices set to come down and then Biden stopped them for about 6 to 8 months then brought it back and claimed he did it.

I won't be surprised at anything the left does.

Ultimately I don't think this will fly with the courts. Last time I checked today pharma stocks were up which is telling. Congress needs to pass this into law. Many democrats will support it. This really is an 80/20 issue, and it would be a feather in Trump's cap that could never be taken away.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

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The answer is B for both (Maybe some situational exceptions), but that also depends on if you are also including removing government involvement in all medical matters (IE regulations, encouraging insurance, etc). Government can screw up a system 50 different ways none of us have even thought of yet.

annie88 said:

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Well, the left hates anything Trump does, but they also hate the fact that he gets most things that he sets out to do that is the best for the American people. They really hate that.

I remember when Trump had insulin prices set to come down and then Biden stopped them for about 6 to 8 months then brought it back and claimed he did it.

I won't be surprised at anything the left does.

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Trump's insulin price caps were voluntary and only applied to Medicare part D. Biden made them required and applied them to all of Medicare. Biden had plenty of screw ups, but this wasn't one of them.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

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Get rid of Obamacare, Medicare, and Medicaid.

With each step we move closer to socialized medicine. Passing a bandaid to help with the problem of socializing medicine is not the answer.

Can you even imagine the cost reduction for those actually footing the bill for this idiotic system?

Phatbob said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

---

The answer is B for both (Maybe some situational exceptions), but that also depends on if you are also including removing government involvement in all medical matters (IE regulations, encouraging insurance, etc). Government can screw up a system 50 different ways none of us have even thought of yet.

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That's the point. We are where we are BECAUSE of government. We also have influential politicians on both sides pocketing large sums of money to keep this system costly, inefficient, and highly regulated for Americans. IF the government simply got completely out of the way with healthcare that would be ideal. But libertarians never point to the steps that should be taken right now, by this president, and whether it would have to be done with congressional action, to move toward less or no government. They are VERY quick though to yell at Trump for attempting to break the system single handedly by cutting off their profit engine using one of the very few methods available to him. Because if America pays less, other countries wont pay more. Costs AND profits will just plain come down across the board. The industry makes insane profits BECAUSE we are forced to pay for those profits.

Furious said:

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The issue is that each pharma product under patent is a de facto monopoly. There is no free market in play. When you have a situation that's, pay us a million dollars or die - what choice do people have?

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#drama

Quote:

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Get rid of Obamacare, Medicare, and Medicaid.

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Sure. Just give the libs a super majority in the house and senate as well as the White House for the next 25 years. Insurance companies will NOT insure 90% of those on Medicare.

Nobody will go along with that.
Nobody.
NOBODY
N O B O D Y

N
O
B
O
D
Y

The sooner we stop spouting nonsensical ideas and start actually doing something, the better off we will be.

We are less than 2 decades away from UHC if we do not do just that. Buckle up.

Tom Fox said:

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We are less than 2 decades away from UHC if we do not do just that. Buckle up.

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Maybe. Better than 50 million people going bankrupt in 3 years due to medical costs. Do you know what the voting public would do to Republicans if that happened?

70 D senators and 300 D congressmen + a D in the White House would make us beg for UHC.

I don't want to think about it.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Phatbob said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

---

The answer is B for both (Maybe some situational exceptions), but that also depends on if you are also including removing government involvement in all medical matters (IE regulations, encouraging insurance, etc). Government can screw up a system 50 different ways none of us have even thought of yet.

---

That's the point. We are where we are BECAUSE of government. We also have influential politicians on both sides pocketing large sums of money to keep this system costly, inefficient, and highly regulated for Americans. IF the government simply got completely out of the way with healthcare that would be ideal. But libertarians never point to the steps that should be taken right now, by this president, and whether it would have to be done with congressional action, to move toward less or no government. They are VERY quick though to yell at Trump for attempting to break the system single handedly by cutting off their profit engine using one of the very few methods available to him. Because if America pays less, other countries wont pay more. Costs AND profits will just plain come down across the board. The industry makes insane profits BECAUSE we are forced to pay for those profits.

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Not sure where you're getting that from. Nothing gets dismissed as irrelevant more quickly than a Libertarian idea around here. Marxists at least get yelled at. Maybe the only part of it you are paying attention to is the criticism of Trump based on his big government tendencies. The other parts from Libertarians have always been there.

If this goes into effect and only impacts medicare/medicaid prices won't big pharma just charge people in America without medicare/medicaid even MORE?

Science Denier said:

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Tom Fox said:

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We are less than 2 decades away from UHC if we do not do just that. Buckle up.

---

Maybe. Better than 50 million people going bankrupt in 3 years due to medical costs. Do you know what the voting public would do to Republicans if that happened?

70 D senators and 300 D congressmen + a D in the White House would make us beg for UHC.

I don't want to think about it.

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Well, I guess as long as WE are the ones to run us into full blown socialism, then it is ok.

MouthBQ98 said:

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I generally don't like authoritarian price controls as policy and the history of them is long term failure BUT in an international market, where one major market has no controls and pretty much all the others implement controls, the no controls market might operate as the safety valve to sustain overall target profitability and bear the entire burden of supporting the desired margin for the product as a whole in a heavily manipulated market. In that circumstance, the competition is also the control itself, and if everyone's price controls compete to go as low as possible without shutting down the incentive to produce then it sort of achieves a crude equivalent of market pricing but with a brinksmanship dilemma of risking eliminating the product from the market entirely by making it unprofitable.

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Perfectly stated and what I said on another forum. Basically, what's being missed on here is that Trump is doing an end around on price controls by setting our prices against one of these other price controlled countries. So, he is effectively implementing price controls indirectly.

I think it sucks that we pay more but this could also lead to drug shortages because that's what price controls do by default.

They are marketable good sold for money. Do you understand what Capitalism is?

Phatbob said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

---

The answer is B for both (Maybe some situational exceptions), but that also depends on if you are also including removing government involvement in all medical matters (IE regulations, encouraging insurance, etc). Government can screw up a system 50 different ways none of us have even thought of yet.

---

That's the point. We are where we are BECAUSE of government. We also have influential politicians on both sides pocketing large sums of money to keep this system costly, inefficient, and highly regulated for Americans. IF the government simply got completely out of the way with healthcare that would be ideal. But libertarians never point to the steps that should be taken right now, by this president, and whether it would have to be done with congressional action, to move toward less or no government. They are VERY quick though to yell at Trump for attempting to break the system single handedly by cutting off their profit engine using one of the very few methods available to him. Because if America pays less, other countries wont pay more. Costs AND profits will just plain come down across the board. The industry makes insane profits BECAUSE we are forced to pay for those profits.

---

Not sure where you're getting that from. Nothing gets dismissed as irrelevant more quickly than a Libertarian idea around here. Marxists at least get yelled at. Maybe the only part of it you are paying attention to is the criticism of Trump based on his big government tendencies. The other parts from Libertarians have always been there.

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Mostly BigRob, who has been quick to call Trump a liberal for this move, but cant seem to post another path Trump can take to try to fix what is a huge noose around the neck of the American people.

KillerAg21 said:

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They are marketable good sold for money. Do you understand what Capitalism is?

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I am pretty sure you don't even realize what a self-own this is.

Every government oversight agency, every regulation, every price control is opposite of capitalism. The free market naturally gravitates towards monopolies and oligarchies, stifles competition, and creates class disparity. The Jungle is a classic example. A fix on what Pfizer can charge us in Texas as to what they charge Norway is Socialist by design. Again, a change in which I am all for. Compartment that into your worldview and ideology however you like.

Big rob calling Trump a liberal is as certain as death, taxes and Dem hypocrisy.

I love some big rob mexihonkey, but he's going to call anything not absolutely old school conservative as liberal.

I get it and he is right. It's better to just understand that conservatives, true conservatives, will never be a majority again. The Dems were certain of this which is why DJT shocked them. He broadened the R base beyond "true" conservatives.

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

---

The answer is B for both (Maybe some situational exceptions), but that also depends on if you are also including removing government involvement in all medical matters (IE regulations, encouraging insurance, etc). Government can screw up a system 50 different ways none of us have even thought of yet.

---

That's the point. We are where we are BECAUSE of government. We also have influential politicians on both sides pocketing large sums of money to keep this system costly, inefficient, and highly regulated for Americans. IF the government simply got completely out of the way with healthcare that would be ideal. But libertarians never point to the steps that should be taken right now, by this president, and whether it would have to be done with congressional action, to move toward less or no government. They are VERY quick though to yell at Trump for attempting to break the system single handedly by cutting off their profit engine using one of the very few methods available to him. Because if America pays less, other countries wont pay more. Costs AND profits will just plain come down across the board. The industry makes insane profits BECAUSE we are forced to pay for those profits.

---

Not sure where you're getting that from. Nothing gets dismissed as irrelevant more quickly than a Libertarian idea around here. Marxists at least get yelled at. Maybe the only part of it you are paying attention to is the criticism of Trump based on his big government tendencies. The other parts from Libertarians have always been there.

---

Mostly BigRob, who has been quick to call Trump a liberal for this move, but cant seem to post another path Trump can take to try to fix what is a huge noose around the neck of the American people.

---

It's been put forward countless times here. Not in this thread, but there have been lots of conversations about the difference between conservatism (small government - libertarian leaning) and the path of the current Republican party of big government populism, and Trump's role in that. Unfortunately, Trump has helped move the Republican conversation more to accepting the presuppositions of the left in order to win. That means never fixing the socialistic mistakes of the past, and therefore never addressing the real problems with real answers.

KillerAg21 said:

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Every government oversight agency, every regulation, every price control is opposite of capitalism. The free market naturally gravitates towards monopolies and oligarchies, stifles competition, and creates class disparity. The Jungle is a classic example. A fix on what Pfizer can charge us in Texas as to what they charge Norway is Socialist by design. Again, a change in which I am all for. Compartment that into your worldview and ideology however you like.

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That is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. Those things exist in EVERY economic system, but they are only permanent in socialistic systems.

Tom Fox said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

For the libertarians..

If there was no medicare or Medicaid, no Obamacare..

If every American had to pay out of pocket for everything healthcare related, would prescription drugs be..

A. More expensive in America
B. Cheaper in America
C. The same in America

And would they be..

A. More expensive in other countries
B. Cheaper in other countries
C. The same in other countries

---

Get rid of Obamacare, Medicare, and Medicaid.

With each step we move closer to socialized medicine. Passing a bandaid to help with the problem of socializing medicine is not the answer.

Can you even imagine the cost reduction for those actually footing the bill for this idiotic system?

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replace obamacare with?

VaultingChemist said:

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Entresto is one of the most prescribed heart medications, and consists of a a combination of two established drugs. Cost is $846.63 per month. There is no generic to compete with it.

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Now as someone who takes 2 Entresto per day - and have for years - selfishly I would not mind a bit of a price reduction.