Trump has decided on price controls for Big Pharma

19,680 Views | 311 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Hoyt Ag
Jeeper79
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AG
Science Denier said:

True story.

A Costco vendor accidently sent an invoice for approx. $20 million that was for Sam's. The Costco rep compared that bill to the one he received. Same volume, same product, but Sam's was exactly $0;01 more. Probably rounding error or something.

Anyway, the Costco canceled the contract with the vendor and won't do business with them any more.

Despite the REEEEEEEing, what Costco did is not price controls. That's using the size of their purchasing power to ENSURE they get the best pricing. Vendor can charge what they want for a product, but the best price goes to the largest buyer.

That is exactly what Trump is setting up. Large market, lower price. That is exactly supply and demand market pricing. Now, where Pharma may have an issue is with other countries that DO have price controls. Now, the US doesn't have to pay for these socialist countries. For most, that is a good thing. But the TDS still goes REEEEEEEEEEE.
Unless the government is buying the meds and distributing them, your comparison is moot. And btw this impacts American pharma companies too. But your contortions are entertaining.
BigRobSA
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captkirk said:

KillerAg21 said:

Wow Trump is turning into a socialist commie. I wonder how MAGA is going to conform itself to being for free market capitalism yet rooting for socialist polices like this.

Poster Doesn't know what free market means
Obviously, the medical market isn't truly free market. Hasn't been for decades.

You don't fix that with more liberalism/market interference.

The only effective move is to remove the aforementioned interference. But, he's a lib so he only knows the one thing.
HTownAg98
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Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
Science Denier
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AG
Jeeper79 said:

Science Denier said:

True story.

A Costco vendor accidently sent an invoice for approx. $20 million that was for Sam's. The Costco rep compared that bill to the one he received. Same volume, same product, but Sam's was exactly $0;01 more. Probably rounding error or something.

Anyway, the Costco canceled the contract with the vendor and won't do business with them any more.

Despite the REEEEEEEing, what Costco did is not price controls. That's using the size of their purchasing power to ENSURE they get the best pricing. Vendor can charge what they want for a product, but the best price goes to the largest buyer.

That is exactly what Trump is setting up. Large market, lower price. That is exactly supply and demand market pricing. Now, where Pharma may have an issue is with other countries that DO have price controls. Now, the US doesn't have to pay for these socialist countries. For most, that is a good thing. But the TDS still goes REEEEEEEEEEE.
Unless the government is buying the meds and distributing them, your comparison is moot. And btw this impacts American pharma companies too.
Huh?
Trump: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price
Costco: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price

How is that different? Here is a hint. It's not.
Science Denier
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AG
HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
Ever heard of this thing called Medicare?
agaberto
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Noble goal, and I hope Trump has better success than last time. Big Pharma is a powerful group, entrenched in our government, and supported by RINOs and Democrats. That's a tough group to tussle with, but if anyone can do it, it's Trump.
BigRobSA
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Science Denier said:

HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
Ever heard of this thing called Medicare?
Yep. It is an idiotic method of market interference that needs to go the way of the Dodo.

"We" are supposedly in power. Get rid of it.
Science Denier
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AG
BigRobSA said:

Science Denier said:

HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
Ever heard of this thing called Medicare?
Yep. It is an idiotic method of market interference that needs to go the way of the Dodo.

"We" are supposedly in power. Get rid of it.
Insurance companies: We won't insure the old. You can die at 55. **** off.
Government: Ok, we will step in

When the market is a monopoly and fails, government stepping in is not interference. And Medicare is going nowhere. Sorry about that.
Jeeper79
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AG
Science Denier said:

Jeeper79 said:

Science Denier said:

True story.

A Costco vendor accidently sent an invoice for approx. $20 million that was for Sam's. The Costco rep compared that bill to the one he received. Same volume, same product, but Sam's was exactly $0;01 more. Probably rounding error or something.

Anyway, the Costco canceled the contract with the vendor and won't do business with them any more.

Despite the REEEEEEEing, what Costco did is not price controls. That's using the size of their purchasing power to ENSURE they get the best pricing. Vendor can charge what they want for a product, but the best price goes to the largest buyer.

That is exactly what Trump is setting up. Large market, lower price. That is exactly supply and demand market pricing. Now, where Pharma may have an issue is with other countries that DO have price controls. Now, the US doesn't have to pay for these socialist countries. For most, that is a good thing. But the TDS still goes REEEEEEEEEEE.
Unless the government is buying the meds and distributing them, your comparison is moot. And btw this impacts American pharma companies too.
Huh?
Trump: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price
Costco: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price

How is that different? Here is a hint. It's not.
One is the a private company employing free market principles. The other is the government. HTH

And by the way, Trump isn't saying," We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price." He's saying, "You're not allowed to sell your product unless it's the lowest price." There's a BIG difference.
Science Denier
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AG
Jeeper79 said:

Science Denier said:

Jeeper79 said:

Science Denier said:

True story.

A Costco vendor accidently sent an invoice for approx. $20 million that was for Sam's. The Costco rep compared that bill to the one he received. Same volume, same product, but Sam's was exactly $0;01 more. Probably rounding error or something.

Anyway, the Costco canceled the contract with the vendor and won't do business with them any more.

Despite the REEEEEEEing, what Costco did is not price controls. That's using the size of their purchasing power to ENSURE they get the best pricing. Vendor can charge what they want for a product, but the best price goes to the largest buyer.

That is exactly what Trump is setting up. Large market, lower price. That is exactly supply and demand market pricing. Now, where Pharma may have an issue is with other countries that DO have price controls. Now, the US doesn't have to pay for these socialist countries. For most, that is a good thing. But the TDS still goes REEEEEEEEEEE.
Unless the government is buying the meds and distributing them, your comparison is moot. And btw this impacts American pharma companies too.
Huh?
Trump: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price
Costco: We will only buy your product if we get your lowest price

How is that different? Here is a hint. It's not.
One is the a private company employing free market principles. The other is the government. HTH
Free market principals are free market principals.

Now, I realize our government was way more interested in getting bribes than actually representing the American people and that has caused some confusion. But free market principles are free market principles
- US has a huge market
- US gets the lowest price
Pretty basic free market concept there

But, I get that this is TRUMP doing it, so the REEEEEEEEs are pretty funny.
BigRobSA
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Science Denier said:

BigRobSA said:

Science Denier said:

HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
Ever heard of this thing called Medicare?
Yep. It is an idiotic method of market interference that needs to go the way of the Dodo.

"We" are supposedly in power. Get rid of it.
Insurance companies: We won't insure the old. You can die at 55. **** off.
Government: Ok, we will step in

When the market is a monopoly and fails, government stepping in is not interference. And Medicare is going nowhere. Sorry about that.
Insurance is a "thing" because of govt interference in WW2. Price controls (like now), wage controls, etc. started us down this path and now liberals (even in the Republican party) are pushing for MORE of the same. The outcome will be no different. This will **** us just like the last 8 decades of govt interference have.
Ag with kids
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AG
HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.
How do we get THE OTHER COUNTRY'S governments out of the way? THOSE countries are setting price controls that distort the US pharma market pricing structure.
DonHenley
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Liberals are now suddenly in favor of high costs for prescription drugs.
Logos Stick
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HTownAg98 said:

Ag with kids said:

Tom Fox said:

Ag with kids said:

Logos Stick said:

I can't wait to see the left defend Big Pharma.

I'm opposed to price controls, but I want something done about **** countries like Canada getting cheap drugs funded by US citizens.



I hate price controls, too.

But this is just making EVERYONE foot the cost instead of just the US.

Getting rid of them using us to subsidize THEIR drugs.


Then negotiate with those countries. Do not use the power of the government to set price controls for private American businesses.
I agree. I don't think US price controls is a good idea.

But, how do you get everyone else to stop ****ing us over?
Get government out of the equation to allow a free market to work.


OK. Good luck getting Canada to do away with government controlled healthcare.
Tom Fox
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coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

Then negotiate with those countries.

You mean like Trump is doing with tariffs? Funny, you didn't like those either...


You're confusing me with other posters. I had no issue with using tariffs to protect US companies. It will raise prices on consumers because the cost will be passed along to them but I did not care about it. Tariffs have been used against foreigners since our nations inception.

This is doing the opposite. He is targeting US companies and setting their prices based on what they are charging other customers.

It would be the same as telling me that I have to charge every legal client the same rate, which I certainly do not. It is none of the government's business what I charge unless they are contracting my services for themselves and even then they do not get to mandate what I charge, they can obviously take their business elsewhere if they do not like my pricing.

Except that it was not you who determined that billing rate: certain clients demanded to be charged an unprofitable rate for your services, and you acquiesced, and raised rates for others in order to compensate. Now, those other clients are demanding they get the same deal.


I get to decide what my rate is for each client and whether it is profitable for me or not. Not the government. And hell, I provide a constitutionally mandated service. If I want to sell my service to the government, of course they can dictate that price, they are a large player in the market. But I do not have to do business with them at all and can set my price for private customers.l without interference from them other than they also provide the service but at a much lower performance. Hence, people pay the prices that I set rather than use to government option. The government shouldn't even be in my market as a competitor to begin with.

If other clients demand the same rate and I do not want to do so, they can take their business elsewhere or pay the price that I set. I currently have some clients being charged triple for the same service. If they want the service, they pay it. If not they can do without.
HarleySpoon
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AG
Everyone…..including myself….wants to yell: "let the free market rule."
But it is not a free market if the companies are bribing the law makers.
Trump only has one term to fix and the bribed don't want it fixed. So the easiest thing to do and most likely successful approach is to attack the bribers and not those being bribed.
BigRobSA
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Ag with kids said:


How do we get THE OTHER COUNTRY'S governments out of the way? THOSE countries are setting price controls that distort the US pharma market pricing structure.

"Hello, CIA?......"
Signel
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AG
Price controls are never a good idea, but being able to set the market with fake "updated formulas" is also a scam.

The Federal government should be protecting us instead of allowing scams in either direction.
OverSeas AG
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AG
KillerAg21 said:

It by definition is not free market capitalism. Having the government tell the free market how it can sell its products and for how much is inherently a left policy.


So… combating crime syndicates is inherently a left policy?


Got it. Hahahahah. And that is how they function.
Phatbob
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AG
HarleySpoon said:

Everyone…..including myself….wants to yell: "let the free market rule."
But it is not a free market if the companies are bribing the law makers.
Trump only has one term to fix and the bribed don't want it fixed. So the easiest thing to do and most likely successful approach is to attack the bribers and not those being bribed.
Only successful approach would be to eliminate the position of the bribed. When no one person is in control of the gate, you can't bribe the gatekeeper. Everything else is just changing the method of bribery.
David_Puddy
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AG
As a Type 1 diabetic who pays out the ass monthly for all of my prescriptions, this is fantastic news. I just hope it goes through, but I won't be holding my breath. Corrupt big Pharma is going to dig their heels in like crazy
Science Denier
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AG
BigRobSA said:

Ag with kids said:


How do we get THE OTHER COUNTRY'S governments out of the way? THOSE countries are setting price controls that distort the US pharma market pricing structure.

"Hello, CIA?......"
USAID, right?
Tramp96
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As Trump said during this morning's press conference, he's not instituting price controls. The big pharma companies have already done that, and that's the problem.

mlb87
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AG
My wife is in pharmaceutical research and the element driving up the costs are the FDA requirements. Folks outside the business have no idea how cumbersome and extensive these are. I do however agree that US consumers shouldn't be bearing the lion share of the costs.
Science Denier
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AG
OverSeas AG said:

KillerAg21 said:

It by definition is not free market capitalism. Having the government tell the free market how it can sell its products and for how much is inherently a left policy.


So… combating crime syndicates is inherently a left policy?


Got it. Hahahahah. And that is how they function.
LOL, anything Trump does that's good gets countered with REEEEEEEEEE. The VAST majority of Americans support our huge market getting the best deals. It's capitalism 101 and the base of any market based economy.

These folks just need to repeat after me:

Largest markets should get the best pricing
Largest markets should get the best pricing
Largest markets should get the best pricing

For too long, lawmakers take bribes and force the largest markets to pay the most. This is so basic, yet not grasped. Instead, these folks hear

TRUMP!!! REEEEEEEEEE
TRUMP!!! REEEEEEEEEE
TRUMP!!! REEEEEEEEEE
Science Denier
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AG
Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

Then negotiate with those countries.

You mean like Trump is doing with tariffs? Funny, you didn't like those either...


You're confusing me with other posters. I had no issue with using tariffs to protect US companies. It will raise prices on consumers because the cost will be passed along to them but I did not care about it. Tariffs have been used against foreigners since our nations inception.

This is doing the opposite. He is targeting US companies and setting their prices based on what they are charging other customers.

It would be the same as telling me that I have to charge every legal client the same rate, which I certainly do not. It is none of the government's business what I charge unless they are contracting my services for themselves and even then they do not get to mandate what I charge, they can obviously take their business elsewhere if they do not like my pricing.

Except that it was not you who determined that billing rate: certain clients demanded to be charged an unprofitable rate for your services, and you acquiesced, and raised rates for others in order to compensate. Now, those other clients are demanding they get the same deal.


I get to decide what my rate is for each client and whether it is profitable for me or not. Not the government. And hell, I provide a constitutionally mandated service. If I want to sell my service to the government, of course they can dictate that price, they are a large player in the market. But I do not have to do business with them at all and can set my price for private customers.l without interference from them other than they also provide the service but at a much lower performance. Hence, people pay the prices that I set rather than use to government option. The government shouldn't even be in my market as a competitor to begin with.

If other clients demand the same rate and I do not want to do so, they can take their business elsewhere or pay the price that I set. I currently have some clients being charged triple for the same service. If they want the service, they pay it. If not they can do without.
If Phama doesn't want to give the US their best pricing, they don't have to. They just can't sell here. Just as in your case, Trump will take our market elsewhere and not do business with them.

This is no different that what you are saying.
Jeeper79
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AG
Tramp96 said:

As Trump said during this morning's press conference, he's not instituting price controls. The big pharma companies have already done that, and that's the problem.


Tell us you don't know how price controls work without telling us you don't know how price controls work.
Jeeper79
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AG
Science Denier said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

Then negotiate with those countries.

You mean like Trump is doing with tariffs? Funny, you didn't like those either...


You're confusing me with other posters. I had no issue with using tariffs to protect US companies. It will raise prices on consumers because the cost will be passed along to them but I did not care about it. Tariffs have been used against foreigners since our nations inception.

This is doing the opposite. He is targeting US companies and setting their prices based on what they are charging other customers.

It would be the same as telling me that I have to charge every legal client the same rate, which I certainly do not. It is none of the government's business what I charge unless they are contracting my services for themselves and even then they do not get to mandate what I charge, they can obviously take their business elsewhere if they do not like my pricing.

Except that it was not you who determined that billing rate: certain clients demanded to be charged an unprofitable rate for your services, and you acquiesced, and raised rates for others in order to compensate. Now, those other clients are demanding they get the same deal.


I get to decide what my rate is for each client and whether it is profitable for me or not. Not the government. And hell, I provide a constitutionally mandated service. If I want to sell my service to the government, of course they can dictate that price, they are a large player in the market. But I do not have to do business with them at all and can set my price for private customers.l without interference from them other than they also provide the service but at a much lower performance. Hence, people pay the prices that I set rather than use to government option. The government shouldn't even be in my market as a competitor to begin with.

If other clients demand the same rate and I do not want to do so, they can take their business elsewhere or pay the price that I set. I currently have some clients being charged triple for the same service. If they want the service, they pay it. If not they can do without.
If Phama doesn't want to give the US their best pricing, they don't have to. They just can't sell here. Just as in your case, Trump will take our market elsewhere and not do business with them.

This is no different that what you are saying.
Its completely different. But it's clear you can't see the difference.

Or let's try another exercise… if this isn't price controls, what do real price controls look like in your mind?
Science Denier
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AG
Jeeper79 said:

Science Denier said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

coconutED said:

Tom Fox said:

Then negotiate with those countries.

You mean like Trump is doing with tariffs? Funny, you didn't like those either...


You're confusing me with other posters. I had no issue with using tariffs to protect US companies. It will raise prices on consumers because the cost will be passed along to them but I did not care about it. Tariffs have been used against foreigners since our nations inception.

This is doing the opposite. He is targeting US companies and setting their prices based on what they are charging other customers.

It would be the same as telling me that I have to charge every legal client the same rate, which I certainly do not. It is none of the government's business what I charge unless they are contracting my services for themselves and even then they do not get to mandate what I charge, they can obviously take their business elsewhere if they do not like my pricing.

Except that it was not you who determined that billing rate: certain clients demanded to be charged an unprofitable rate for your services, and you acquiesced, and raised rates for others in order to compensate. Now, those other clients are demanding they get the same deal.


I get to decide what my rate is for each client and whether it is profitable for me or not. Not the government. And hell, I provide a constitutionally mandated service. If I want to sell my service to the government, of course they can dictate that price, they are a large player in the market. But I do not have to do business with them at all and can set my price for private customers.l without interference from them other than they also provide the service but at a much lower performance. Hence, people pay the prices that I set rather than use to government option. The government shouldn't even be in my market as a competitor to begin with.

If other clients demand the same rate and I do not want to do so, they can take their business elsewhere or pay the price that I set. I currently have some clients being charged triple for the same service. If they want the service, they pay it. If not they can do without.
If Phama doesn't want to give the US their best pricing, they don't have to. They just can't sell here. Just as in your case, Trump will take our market elsewhere and not do business with them.

This is no different that what you are saying.
Its completely different. But it's clear you can't see the difference.

Or let's try another exercise… if this isn't price controls, what do real price controls look like in your mind?
Gas costs $2.15 to make. Government says no gas will be sold under $2.00 per gallon.

It's not really that hard.
BigRobSA
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mlb87 said:

My wife is in pharmaceutical research and the element driving up the costs are the FDA requirements. Folks outside the business have no idea how cumbersome and extensive these are. I do however agree that US consumers shouldn't be bearing the lion share of the costs.
Yep. And that's part of a conservative policy, removing said requirements (if not the entire dept).

Too bad Trump isn't in charge of that dept.
Bulldog73
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AG
"Free market" as a guiding principle, to paraphrase Churchill, is the best there is. "Free market" as an idol of worship, to be the highest of all philosophies, is a bad idea.

There are times and places where a free market discourages competition. There are situations where a free market harms the poor, the weak and the disenfranchised. There are places where the free market prevents the advancement of merit and equal opportunity, which are as important, if not moreso, as guiding principles in the American experiment. There are circumstances where the free market is, IMO, simply unChristian.

And in this matter, a pure free market argument in a market that is anything but free, is misguided.
Science Denier
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mlb87 said:

My wife is in pharmaceutical research and the element driving up the costs are the FDA requirements. Folks outside the business have no idea how cumbersome and extensive these are. I do however agree that US consumers shouldn't be bearing the lion share of the costs.
Do you honestly believe COST has anything to do with how Pharma prices their products? In a competitive market, maybe. But in the self-created monopoly these companies operate in? LMAO.
javajaws
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KillerAg21 said:

Wow Trump is turning into a socialist commie. I wonder how MAGA is going to conform itself to being for free market capitalism yet rooting for socialist polices like this.

Answer yourself this: Why are Americans forced to pay higher drug prices for the same drug sold in other countries for less?

How is this not taking advantage of the American consumer for the sake of overall worldwide profit margin for these companies?

What other solution do you propose to prevent the American consumer from being taken advantage of by these global health companies? I'm no fan of price controls so I'm all ears on how you think we should fix this problem.


One solution might be to apply a price cap that is solely based on the average price of the same drug sold in other countries (using some algorithm to apply exchange rates, etc). If they want to charge us a high price, fine - but they have to do it everywhere. That would hurt their profit margin globally and most likely result in them lowering prices at least somewhat to maximize profit.
Bird Poo
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KillerAg21 said:

Wow Trump is turning into a socialist commie. I wonder how MAGA is going to conform itself to being for free market capitalism yet rooting for socialist polices like this.
Most Favored Nations clauses are very common. You should be cheering for this.
Tramp96
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Jeeper79 said:

Tramp96 said:

As Trump said during this morning's press conference, he's not instituting price controls. The big pharma companies have already done that, and that's the problem.


Tell us you don't know how price controls work without telling us you don't know how price controls work.
I know exactly how price controls work.

I also know what Trump is doing, and that's ensuring the US gets the same lowest price other countries are getting for the same drug made in the same factory by the same manufacturer.

He's not instituting price controls...he's not dictating to them the price of the drugs. He is incentivizing (through sticks and carrots) the companies to not price gouge the US citizens so that citizens of other countries can enjoy way, way lower prices.

 
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