Serotonin said:

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Can't speak for others but feel like this could be partially directed at me.

We know the Eastlands very well. They are amazing. My grandmother, mother, sister, most girl cousins went to Camp Mystic. So this is coming from someone who is not a rando internet dude.

I don't think there's any way it's coming back. Just my opinion though.

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Not in its old form, at least.
But that is still some very valuable land for developers to build upscale riverfront homes. My point being that others have interests in how these lawsuits proceed. Years of litigation.

Chapter 11 maybe? Remain debtor in possession to reorganize and remove the cases into federal court? Glad I am not advising the Eastlands right now. Tragic all of the way around.

I understand what Act of God means. My daughter and her cabin are ready to sign up for 2026 also.

aggiehawg said:

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Serotonin said:

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Can't speak for others but feel like this could be partially directed at me.

We know the Eastlands very well. They are amazing. My grandmother, mother, sister, most girl cousins went to Camp Mystic. So this is coming from someone who is not a rando internet dude.

I don't think there's any way it's coming back. Just my opinion though.

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Not in its old form, at least.
But that is still some very valuable land for developers to build upscale riverfront homes. My point being that others have interests in how these lawsuits proceed. Years of litigation.

Chapter 11 maybe? Remain debtor in possession to reorganize and remove the cases into federal court? Glad I am not advising the Eastlands right now. Tragic all of the way around.

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Don't think you can just discharge into federal court with a gross negligence claim. Its going to be messy

No one said anything about nothing changing. You want to punish folks for something out of their control and not seen before there. Everyone should expect change post storm. That's how civilization works versus nature. There is now a new storm of record that things should be judged by.

I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

FM 949 said:

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I understand what Act of God means. My daughter and her cabin are ready to sign up for 2026 also.

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Where? Now you're just being obtuse on top of underhandedly victim blaiming. You would absolutely not just throw up your hands and say, "welp, act of God what can you do?"

Not sure how you get to that conclusion, but you are entitled to it.

fc2112 said:

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I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

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Yeah, there is that. Even getting umbrella policy would be tough. Not to mention very expensive.

fc2112 said:

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I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

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This right here. No insurance company is going to touch this risk if the same folks are involved. Even if the assets were sold to a new operator, I'm not sure this property will ever get insured for a kids camp again. Maybe some kind of resort, with structures out of the floodway, but that's probably it.

Emotional topic but TexAgs use to be better than this. The absolute false information getting thrown around as fact, just making **** up, etc. is really disappointing. Nobody is saying change doesn't need to occur. That doesn't mean parents are unreasonable for being willing to send a child back to Mystic. Change will occur in all of these camps to better prepare for the next natural disaster. And then something will occur that is unprecedented and people will again be out to destroy great people because that's what humans do best.

Is there a reason some of y'all think that the lower cabins that flooded are going to be occupied again? Did I miss a statement by Mystic saying everything is expected to go back to how it was?

Why are there responses with seemingly those assumptions?

dermdoc said:

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FM 949 said:

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I understand what Act of God means. My daughter and her cabin are ready to sign up for 2026 also.

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With all due respect, if they do not significantly change things I question your wisdom. Sorry but the Eastlands screwed up.

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With all due respect, I think anybody assuming any camp along the Guadalupe (or any other river) will open next year without significant changes based on what happened at Mystic is delusional. This changed things for everybody and nobody is going to open next year with nothing changed.

I totally get wanting the Eastlands to never run the camp again and not be able to profit from it if does still operate. But personally I think it will be sad to see that property sold off for 5 ac ranchettes to buy Thomas J Henry (or whoever the winning lawyer is) another private jet instead of being reopened as a camp under new ownership/management and continuing the legacy of what Mystic meant to the young ladies who camped there.

Punishing the Eastlands for what they did doesn't have to mean the same thing as punishing all the little girls who can't wait to see their camp friends again next year.

They followed the FEMA regulations. You act like that was wrong. It's not, and it's done all across the state of Texas and the country.

The tragedy at Mystic occurred because an unprecedented wall of water hit the camp.

Why do y'all keep walking past the fact that my chances of bedding Gal Gadot are better than the chances of Camp Mystic ever getting liability insurance again!

twk said:

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fc2112 said:

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I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

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This right here. No insurance company is going to touch this risk if the same folks are involved. Even if the assets were sold to a new operator, I'm not sure this property will ever get insured for a kids camp again. Maybe some kind of resort, with structures out of the floodway, but that's probably it.

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There is a large part of the camp including many cabins that are nowhere near the floodway and that was not at risk during this flood event. How the lower cabins are handled will determine how insurance treats it, but actuarial risk management is a thing. There are plenty of companies that know how rare this event was and how changes in management will likely affect the level of risk going forward. I don't think there is any way that the camp reopens with the Eastlands still involved.

There seems to be an interesting culture surrounding some of these camps. Maybe, in light of what happened, it would be advisable to find another camp for your girls if they have been attending Mystic. There are amazing camps all over the country.

dermdoc said:

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71 jock said:

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I'm genuinely curious how many of you have actually ever been to Camp Mystic, met the Eastland's, seen the love and Christian growth these girls experience while there. I've seen a few on this thread. That's it. The rest of you have no idea how this camp has impacted girls and families for generations. Everyone's heart absolutely breaks for what happened to the girls lost, their families, and the Eastland family.

When you actually know how special this place is which 99% of you don't, you can grieve with the families AND want the camp to continue. The best way to honor those girls is to remember them every day but especially every summer at camp. Closing down the camp will do nothing but damage this opportunity. They will never be forgotten, and we continually pray for them. Taking that away from others is not the answer.

It's easy for outsiders to spread misinformation and talk of money and greed, but I'm here to tell you again, you have no idea what you are talking about. We don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you my daughter and her entire cabin she's been with for 6 years, will not hesitate to go back if given that chance. And those of you saying most parents wouldn't send their kids back are just flat out wrong and again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

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I am well aware of all this. The Eastlands screwed up. Repeatedly. And I am a Christian and love all the Camp Mystic history. . But they were negligent. And if nothing changes, I would question why you feel comfortable sending your family there.

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Doc, you know how it was after Bonfire. There were strong emotions all around. As the months passed, most people began to slowly realize what had happened and why it didn't need to have happened. Then slowly the number of people who wanted it back on campus began to dwindle. Ultimately, none of the emotions mattered. It was never coming back and never had a chance. I'm not saying that you will do this or that you even are tempted, but it will be a waste of time to argue with anyone who thinks Mystic will return. It ain't gonna happen. Spend your emotions elsewhere. Lord knows you've got plenty of places to go.

txags92 said:

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twk said:

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fc2112 said:

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I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

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This right here. No insurance company is going to touch this risk if the same folks are involved. Even if the assets were sold to a new operator, I'm not sure this property will ever get insured for a kids camp again. Maybe some kind of resort, with structures out of the floodway, but that's probably it.

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There is a large part of the camp including many cabins that are nowhere near the floodway and that was not at risk during this flood event. How the lower cabins are handled will determine how insurance treats it, but actuarial risk management is a thing. There are plenty of companies that know how rare this event was and how changes in management will likely affect the level of risk going forward. I don't think there is any way that the camp reopens with the Eastlands still involved.

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They built more cabins down by the river after being warned repeatedly.

94chem said:

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dermdoc said:

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71 jock said:

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I'm genuinely curious how many of you have actually ever been to Camp Mystic, met the Eastland's, seen the love and Christian growth these girls experience while there. I've seen a few on this thread. That's it. The rest of you have no idea how this camp has impacted girls and families for generations. Everyone's heart absolutely breaks for what happened to the girls lost, their families, and the Eastland family.

When you actually know how special this place is which 99% of you don't, you can grieve with the families AND want the camp to continue. The best way to honor those girls is to remember them every day but especially every summer at camp. Closing down the camp will do nothing but damage this opportunity. They will never be forgotten, and we continually pray for them. Taking that away from others is not the answer.

It's easy for outsiders to spread misinformation and talk of money and greed, but I'm here to tell you again, you have no idea what you are talking about. We don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you my daughter and her entire cabin she's been with for 6 years, will not hesitate to go back if given that chance. And those of you saying most parents wouldn't send their kids back are just flat out wrong and again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

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I am well aware of all this. The Eastlands screwed up. Repeatedly. And I am a Christian and love all the Camp Mystic history. . But they were negligent. And if nothing changes, I would question why you feel comfortable sending your family there.

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Doc, you know how it was after Bonfire. There were strong emotions all around. As the months passed, most people began to slowly realize what had happened and why it didn't need to have happened. Then slowly the number of people who wanted it back on campus began to dwindle. Ultimately, none of the emotions mattered. It was never coming back and never had a chance. I'm bot saying that you will do this or that you even are tempted, but it will be a waste of time to argue with anyone who thinks Mystic will return. It ain't gonna happen. Spend your emotions elsewhere. Lord knows you've got plenty of places to go.

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Agree. Thanks.

dermdoc said:

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FM 949 said:

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They followed the FEMA regulations. You act like that was wrong. It's not, and it's done all across the state of Texas and the country.

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They got FEMA to change the regulations. Look, I know a lot more about this than a lot of folks, I get it. But my goodness.

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They did not change any regulations. They got the property surveyed and found many of the cabins shown as below the officially modeled and mapped BFE were not. As was said above, this happens all the time and it is neither nefarious nor underhanded. If they fudged the survey somehow or something like that it becomes something different. You can probably make a good argument that the 100 yr BFE for the camp area was modeled wrong due to being at the confluence of an unmodeled creek and a larger river, and if they knew that and did nothing, it is tragic and likely negligent. But simply using survey information to correct a federal map is not negligent or shady.

None of that takes away from the tragedy or the overall responsibility that fell to the Eastlands for the safety of their campers, but let's at least be honest here about what was or wasn't part of that negligence.

They didn't change the regulations. They used a common process outlined by FEMA to modify the maps. It's a common practice in industry and is not some nefarious act like you are making it out to be.

Alta said:

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Well that statement is false for me (a Mystic parent).

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So you're saying that a mother of one of the lost girls is lying?

jt16 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Serotonin said:

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Can't speak for others but feel like this could be partially directed at me.

We know the Eastlands very well. They are amazing. My grandmother, mother, sister, most girl cousins went to Camp Mystic. So this is coming from someone who is not a rando internet dude.

I don't think there's any way it's coming back. Just my opinion though.

---

Not in its old form, at least.
But that is still some very valuable land for developers to build upscale riverfront homes. My point being that others have interests in how these lawsuits proceed. Years of litigation.

Chapter 11 maybe? Remain debtor in possession to reorganize and remove the cases into federal court? Glad I am not advising the Eastlands right now. Tragic all of the way around.

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Don't think you can just discharge into federal court with a gross negligence claim. Its going to be messy

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I have been out the legal biz for a loong time but back then, one could remover cases with an open bankruptcy case. Happened to me a few times.

dermdoc said:

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txags92 said:

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twk said:

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fc2112 said:

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I'm sure many are all ready to sign back up

The insurance company isn't one of those, though.

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This right here. No insurance company is going to touch this risk if the same folks are involved. Even if the assets were sold to a new operator, I'm not sure this property will ever get insured for a kids camp again. Maybe some kind of resort, with structures out of the floodway, but that's probably it.

---

There is a large part of the camp including many cabins that are nowhere near the floodway and that was not at risk during this flood event. How the lower cabins are handled will determine how insurance treats it, but actuarial risk management is a thing. There are plenty of companies that know how rare this event was and how changes in management will likely affect the level of risk going forward. I don't think there is any way that the camp reopens with the Eastlands still involved.

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They built more cabins down by the river after being warned repeatedly.

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None of that changes what I said above. Insurance makes their money off of balancing profit against risk, and the risk of another similar flood catching kids sleeping in those cabins is going to be zero based on new state laws, lessons learned from this tragedy, and requirements from the isnurance companies for operations going forward. You keep assuming that people are arguing for letting the Eastlands open up and operate Camp Mystic next month as if nothing ever happened, and that is a strawman of your own construction. Nobody here is arguing for that. I think it is a foregone conclusion that the Eastland family probably has no apetite to want to resume operation of the camp without Dick. And I think it is equally a foregone conclusion that any lawsuit outcome is going to make sure that they are not operating it going forward. The only remaining question is whether it gets reopened by new ownership/management or if the property is sold off to satisfy the judgement/settlement to become a millionaire's private retreat or a bunch of 5-20 acre ranchettes.

Where did I say it was a nefarious act? We shall see. No way Camp Mustic wants discovery.

The tone of your posts and your accusations?

94chem said:

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dermdoc said:

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71 jock said:

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I'm genuinely curious how many of you have actually ever been to Camp Mystic, met the Eastland's, seen the love and Christian growth these girls experience while there. I've seen a few on this thread. That's it. The rest of you have no idea how this camp has impacted girls and families for generations. Everyone's heart absolutely breaks for what happened to the girls lost, their families, and the Eastland family.

When you actually know how special this place is which 99% of you don't, you can grieve with the families AND want the camp to continue. The best way to honor those girls is to remember them every day but especially every summer at camp. Closing down the camp will do nothing but damage this opportunity. They will never be forgotten, and we continually pray for them. Taking that away from others is not the answer.

It's easy for outsiders to spread misinformation and talk of money and greed, but I'm here to tell you again, you have no idea what you are talking about. We don't know what's going to happen, but I can tell you my daughter and her entire cabin she's been with for 6 years, will not hesitate to go back if given that chance. And those of you saying most parents wouldn't send their kids back are just flat out wrong and again showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

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I am well aware of all this. The Eastlands screwed up. Repeatedly. And I am a Christian and love all the Camp Mystic history. . But they were negligent. And if nothing changes, I would question why you feel comfortable sending your family there.

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Doc, you know how it was after Bonfire. There were strong emotions all around. As the months passed, most people began to slowly realize what had happened and why it didn't need to have happened. Then slowly the number of people who wanted it back on campus began to dwindle. Ultimately, none of the emotions mattered. It was never coming back and never had a chance. I'm not saying that you will do this or that you even are tempted, but it will be a waste of time to argue with anyone who thinks Mystic will return. It ain't gonna happen. Spend your emotions elsewhere. Lord knows you've got plenty of places to go.

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Except Bonfire didn't go away. It came back in a different form under different leadership structure and has proven that they could learn from the tragic past and do things better and safer going forward. It will never be back on campus just because there isn't room anymore…but it didn't end with the move off-campus either.

Well if the statement is that Mystic was lobbying against the bill and all Mystic parents got an email stating such then I am saying that statement is false. As a Mystic parent I got no such email nor did several Mystic moms I just asked who happen to be at our house right now.

The person saying the statement is irrelevant. It's not true that all Mystic parents got that email as I know firsthand at least 4 did not.

Then others should be a little more cautious to share actual factual information and not lies. I feel the same way but after awhile it's hard to be silent when so much being spewed is simply not true.