GeorgiAg said:

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A.I. is a problem. You have to be careful what you pick.

I only have about 10 more years to worry about. Can you imagine what A.I. will be like in 20, 30, 40 years?

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I won't have to imagine, AI will do that for me. I will be less capable than Homer Simpson and less useful too.

This whole clip is rather informative. However, in the first 4-5 minutes of this 8 minute clip is an excellent explanation of why the "conservatives" have abandoned institutions of higher education, the dangers of doing so, and what better alternatives there could/should be.

I would rather watch a A&M team with a roster filled with Texas football players. Where hometown boys have connections to teams.

I think a lot of it has to do with the terrible job market for college grads over the last couple of years.

My college educated son, who was recently hired by a big 4 accounting firm, is not very thrilled to slave away for a corporate master. I think many his age are seeing the value and freedom of owning your own business. His goal is to do just that when he makes manager.

You have these very smart college grads entering the work force and finding out that they cannot afford a starter home, so they're seeking ways to elevate their income while not working for someone else in order to live the dream.

I've spoken about my boys before but also it's interesting seeing all of their friends.

Eldest graduated from Galveston in Maritime Transportation and is making bank doing something he loves working on tankers. Love that program for many reasons but a big one is he gets a license out of it and that license is huge for job security (he had 4 offers out of school and could have had more if he wanted them). Unless we get to the point where we send out giant ships around the ocean with no humans on board he will have a job and be paid well because supply/demand is way in his favor.

Youngest is on a full ride at NC State and has decided to switch from Biomedical to Mechanical Engineering because it is more flexible. He wants to work on Med Devices and already had an incredible internship and an offer to come back next year. Considering Med school as well to be a Doctor that has a strong engineering foundation and can work on medical technology but would also have the ability to simply use the MD or he may just go into industry as an engineer.

Most of their friends are doing the "13th grade" route plan in college. Be a business major because everyone else is and engineering is hard and join a frat. Most will be fine but end up in sales. Eldest has 2 buddies that went into trades and are doing very well, one working on boat motors and the other in AC. Both plan to eventually have their own businesses. Another one went to work with his dad selling insurance. Got his certs and is hustling. He's 3 years in now and has built a nice book of business and growing, he will move into management about the time some of his friends that went to college graduate and get started, only he has zero debt and has been banking for a few years while living at home and busting his ass.

Then I know the kids who are doing the screw around road in college and will end up graduating someday with 6 figure debt and an unimpressive resume. They will be the ones crying victim and acting as though they just did what they were told instead of taking responsibility for their choices.

Any parent that just sends their kid to college without making them take the time to have a real plan and treat it like an investment is doing their kid a disservice, even if they are paying the bill. It's about learning how to take responsibility and adult. It's fine to change your mind and discover what you originally wanted to major in isn't the right thing but that should be AFTER they have thoroughly researched it and are dong so out off a rational decision making process not on a whim. It's not 1975 anymore when all you needed was a degree and that would get you hired at a lot of places. Degrees absolutely have value but they vary greatly depending on the major and the school. Even then there are very few that give you a high probability of success by themselves, it is about how you combine that degree with other experience and most of all willingness to work your butt off.

We have bigger problems. The Boomers and then GenX are about to be out of the workforce in the trades.

Per Google AI Overview

Multiple sources confirm a severe skilled trades labor shortage in the United States, driven by a wave of retirements from the baby boomer generation
. While the specific figure of 500,000 tradesmen retiring in the next 10 years was not confirmed by recent data, the numbers and broader trends indicate a massive exodus of experienced workers.
Key data points and findings include:

• Massive retirement wave: Nearly half of all skilled tradespeople are projected to retire within the next decade. Baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, constitute 25% of the U.S. workforce, and most are expected to retire within this timeframe.
• Low replacement rate: For every five tradespeople who retire, only two new workers enter the field. This creates a critical hiring challenge across the board.
• Skilled job deficits: This trend is expected to leave more than 3 million skilled trade jobs unfilled by 2028. In construction alone, the Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) reported a shortage of over 725,000 workers in October 2024, an increase from 500,000 earlier that year.
• Specific industry impact:
  
  • HVAC: The shortage of HVAC technicians is expected to reach 225,000 in the next five years.
  • Plumbing: The U.S. is projected to be short 550,000 plumbers by 2027.
  • Welding: In 2025, the American Welding Society estimates a national shortage of 400,000 skilled welders.
  • Electricians: The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics anticipates an average of 73,500 job openings for electricians every year through 2032 due to retirements and other career changes.
• Root causes of the shortage:
  
  • Aging workforce: The average age of craft workers has steadily increased, with over 40% of skilled workers currently over 45 years old.
  • Decline in vocational training: A push for four-year college degrees has led to the widespread elimination of shop classes in high schools, discouraging younger generations from considering the trades.
  • Negative perception: For years, trade jobs have been seen as less prestigious than white-collar careers, a perception that Gen Z is now starting to reverse.

The mass retirement of experienced tradesmen is creating a significant and persistent skilled labor shortage, raising both challenges and new opportunities for the next generation of workers.

I have a friend who is in the wealth management business and a larger and larger chunk of his high net worth clientele are trades folks who are just raking in the dough. Hoping economics will guide the river flow in the right direction for those making career choices. Being an apprentice is a ***** but it is how you learn.

Outside of the network being a vet, lawyer, or doctor has it really ever had any value?

Are a bunch of can't do's that teach really who you want to learn from?

The internet has made it irrelevant.

The avg age of a construction worker is 42.

Over the next 10 years, theres no way we can replace the number rif people leaving construction or the trades.

Any kid capable of getting a degree isnliekly capable of learning a trade, starting(or buying) a business, and then making an absolute killing.

GeorgiAg said:

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A.I. is a problem. You have to be careful what you pick.

I only have about 10 more years to worry about. Can you imagine what A.I. will be like in 20, 30, 40 years?

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indeed. I am a diehard Ag, not the most redass, but diehard nonetheless. I took pride and passion in my studies during my time on campus (while also spending way too much time partying, but such is life). I'd argue that I could probably have walked away with as much takeaway knowledge by simply plugging my various class syllabi (maybe not a word) into ChatGPT and just reading the resulting notes. And, we're just on the front edge of this oncoming train.

The only thing I am worried is you are recommending our kids do HVAC, plumber, driver type jobs, and Kumar from India sends his son to Harvard and he heads to the Silicon Valley and becomes a gazillionaire.

Our kids work till they die, Kumar's son retires at 50 after selling his company./

txyaloo said:

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I went to work for a tech company right after HS graduation fully believing back then college was a scam. Climbed the ladder for 7 years before I caught a WFR. I saw the tide shifting more and decided I needed a degree.

Nothing I learned in college prepared me to be a better worker in my field. In fact, I had multiple professors and career services tell me how wrong I was about life outside academia after being challenged with real world experience from programs I'd managed.

I enjoyed my time at A&M, but it wasn't worth the cost or student loan debt. Too many dumb out of major electives, professors who couldn't "teach" their way out of a sack, instructors who couldn't speak English, and then the couple of social/environmental science instructors who just so sure the science was settled and weren't open to any contrary discussion.

College is a massive waste of time/money for the majority of fields.

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A lot of truth in that old Rodney Dangerfield movie, especially his experience in business classes.

I have told my son that unless it is not a specific degree specifically tied to strongly or required to his career goals, he should not do college. Right now - he is interested in structural engineering and welding.

If he decides to bypass the structural engineering, welding is a great career.... that he can couple with his scuba diving hobby, and make a lot of money with.

My son is strongly considering going to TSTC and become a certified auto mechanic and also get either the Tesla certification or Stellantis certification. A local Chrysler/Dodge dealership was hiring a Stellantis certified technician recently paying up to 15k a month.

With all the money we have saved for a 4 year school, he has decided to take what is left and just invest it if he goes this route.

If my son was not considering the military and medical school, then he agrees that a trade school is a much better option. STEM degrees should be the main reason for college.

JB!98 said:

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If my son was not considering the military and medical school, then he agrees that a trade school is a much better option. STEM degrees should be the main reason for college.

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I agree.
College is for a reason. To learn stuff like STEM related areas. My son is finishing up with Computer Science and the jobmarket is tough right now with all the H1Bs and outsourcing that is happening. Hopefully all that will be stopped and some sense restored.

If you go to college to learn about "gender studies", then you deserve to get into debt, assuming you aren't super rich and just going to college for fun.

Liberal Arts taught though a Marxist or critical theory lens IS valueless. So they are right to start spurning that. Need to look at some of the others to see if have gotten too politicized. Anything involving atmospherics (and climate related) may well have.

infinity ag said:

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The only thing I am worried is you are recommending our kids do HVAC, plumber, driver type jobs, and Kumar from India sends his son to Harvard and he heads to the Silicon Valley and becomes a gazillionaire.

Our kids work till they die, Kumar's son retires at 50 after selling his company./

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Good point, kumar can live without plumbing and hvac. The trades are clearly a dead end in Silicon Valley.

AGC said:

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infinity ag said:

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The only thing I am worried is you are recommending our kids do HVAC, plumber, driver type jobs, and Kumar from India sends his son to Harvard and he heads to the Silicon Valley and becomes a gazillionaire.

Our kids work till they die, Kumar's son retires at 50 after selling his company./

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Good point, kumar can live without plumbing and hvac. The trades are clearly a dead end in Silicon Valley.

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LOL. For sure the "anti fossil fuels" group should go without electricity if going to be so against it and get in the way of its availability.

Hoyt Ag said:

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If I was 18 and graduating HS, I would do exactly what my girlfriends son is doing. Heading to welding school for 6 months and then start his career. Her other son is a general contractor and has mor work than he can handle, and he is only 23 with a 4 man crew.

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Yes. Welding is the way to go.

I'm guessing there are only 1-2 colleges left in the country that would be worth attending to get a classical education....Hillsdale probably being one of those or the only one.

Outside of Hillsdale, university needs to be completely revamped to focus on degrees and career paths that are needed and add value. I'm not sure what it looks like these days and my memory is hazy but Germany had a setup like many of you are advocating here (if it's still that way) where they had a much bigger focus on universities geared toward applied sciences and technical tracks.

GeorgiAg said:

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A.I. is a problem. You have to be careful what you pick.

I only have about 10 more years to worry about. Can you imagine what A.I. will be like in 20, 30, 40 years?

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My older kid is interested in a career in performing arts. I used to think that was a terrible idea, but considering it's AI proof, I'm now taking a more wait-and-see approach. Thankfully we've a few more years to figure it all out.

Well, maybe you got a point if youre referring to stage stuff.

Music, actors, production etc are going to be replaced

That's interesting… can you be more specific than "performing arts"? In my mind, actors and musicians are the ones MOST in danger of losing relevance due to AI.

infinity ag said:

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The only thing I am worried is you are recommending our kids do HVAC, plumber, driver type jobs, and Kumar from India sends his son to Harvard and he heads to the Silicon Valley and becomes a gazillionaire.

Our kids work till they die, Kumar's son retires at 50 after selling his company./

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Theres also the matter of supply and demand. The trades pay so well because they're relatively scarce. If the number of qualified tradesmen were to double, then competition in the job market (or consumer market if self employed), would dictate that earnings will come down.