Jarrin Jay said:

---

Worse yet, think about the community college systems. Taxpayers heavily subsidize those colleges and the my are mostly worthless.

---

Community colleges are where the tech certs come from. They're not worthless.

That is true and fair. I guess I am thinking of kids that go there and take core liberal arts and science classes and never finish 2 years… all the while taxpayers are subsidizing it.

aggie93 said:

---

I've spoken about my boys before but also it's interesting seeing all of their friends.

Eldest graduated from Galveston in Maritime Transportation and is making bank doing something he loves working on tankers. Love that program for many reasons but a big one is he gets a license out of it and that license is huge for job security (he had 4 offers out of school and could have had more if he wanted them). Unless we get to the point where we send out giant ships around the ocean with no humans on board he will have a job and be paid well because supply/demand is way in his favor.

Youngest is on a full ride at NC State and has decided to switch from Biomedical to Mechanical Engineering because it is more flexible. He wants to work on Med Devices and already had an incredible internship and an offer to come back next year. Considering Med school as well to be a Doctor that has a strong engineering foundation and can work on medical technology but would also have the ability to simply use the MD or he may just go into industry as an engineer.

Most of their friends are doing the "13th grade" route plan in college. Be a business major because everyone else is and engineering is hard and join a frat. Most will be fine but end up in sales. Eldest has 2 buddies that went into trades and are doing very well, one working on boat motors and the other in AC. Both plan to eventually have their own businesses. Another one went to work with his dad selling insurance. Got his certs and is hustling. He's 3 years in now and has built a nice book of business and growing, he will move into management about the time some of his friends that went to college graduate and get started, only he has zero debt and has been banking for a few years while living at home and busting his ass.

Then I know the kids who are doing the screw around road in college and will end up graduating someday with 6 figure debt and an unimpressive resume. They will be the ones crying victim and acting as though they just did what they were told instead of taking responsibility for their choices.

Any parent that just sends their kid to college without making them take the time to have a real plan and treat it like an investment is doing their kid a disservice, even if they are paying the bill. It's about learning how to take responsibility and adult. It's fine to change your mind and discover what you originally wanted to major in isn't the right thing but that should be AFTER they have thoroughly researched it and are dong so out off a rational decision making process not on a whim. It's not 1975 anymore when all you needed was a degree and that would get you hired at a lot of places. Degrees absolutely have value but they vary greatly depending on the major and the school. Even then there are very few that give you a high probability of success by themselves, it is about how you combine that degree with other experience and most of all willingness to work your butt off.

---

Does he know about the TAMU Engineering Medicine program?

Jarrin Jay said:

---

That is true and fair. I guess I am thinking of kids that go there and take core liberal arts and science classes and never finish 2 years… all the while taxpayers are subsidizing it.

---

Taxpayers do pay into property taxes for CC districts in some areas (BrazCo does not even though it is served by Blinn). But as far as I know the percentages on property taxes are far outweighed by public school districts. And the CC students still have to pay tuition.

techno-ag said:

---

Jarrin Jay said:

---

Worse yet, think about the community college systems. Taxpayers heavily subsidize those colleges and the my are mostly worthless.

---

Community colleges are where the tech certs come from. They're not worthless.

---

Houston Community College offers programs in hospitality, nursing, culinary arts, and firefighting.

shiftyandquick said:

---

we will need people to work in all the factories as America makes everything "at home" and reverts back to the industrial age while the rest of the world is progressing to the post-information age.

So why go to college when you want your kids to work in factories? Makes no sense.

---

A good College can teach you how to think. To solve problems.If you think you go to a college and then "apply what I learned in the workplace" that is bs and never happens in real life though everyone claims it does.

I have an MBA from a highly ranked school. Do I use what I learned "in the workplace"? No. I wish I did but no. I have used what I learned in my Finance classes to learn how to look at investments, to figure out what is industry bs and what is not, and found a way to make money in the market and I have made many times my investment in the education.

It is the same with STEM degrees, you use some some you don't. But if done right, it gives you the skillset to solve future problems.

It's funny how things changed. When I was graduating HS (class of 2000) we were brainwashed that if we don't go to college we'll be pieces of **** and not amount to anything. Here I am 25 years later, working as an operator in an oil refinery for a major company, and I work with folks who may have an associates in process technology, or just a few classes and on average they're making $150k/yr. Some of the overtime hogs are raking in close to $250k/yr.

Hoyt Ag said:

---

If I was 18 and graduating HS, I would do exactly what my girlfriends son is doing. Heading to welding school for 6 months and then start his career. Her other son is a general contractor and has mor work than he can handle, and he is only 23 with a 4 man crew.

---

In Texas, TSTC is the best education going for most people coming out of high school.

I know a "kid" who finished TSTC (2 year program) in 2001 from the TSTC in Sweetwater and went straight to work for TI with an initial salary of $85,000. He is still with TI and is making $500,000+.

Chancellor of TSTC is an Aggie friend of mine. They do great work.

Quote:

---

If you think you go to a college and then "apply what I learned in the workplace" that is bs and never happens in real life though everyone claims it does.

---

I have two degrees in music and I use what I learned in school in the workplace pretty much constantly.

JABQ04 said:

---

It's funny how things changed. When I was graduating HS (class of 2000) we were brainwashed that if we don't go to college we'll be pieces of **** and not amount to anything. Here I am 25 years later, working as an operator in an oil refinery for a major company, and I work with folks who may have an associates in process technology, or just a few classes and on average they're making $150k/yr. Some of the overtime hogs are raking in close to $250k/yr.

---

While I agree with what you're saying. Oil field workers have always had the ability to make 150 to 250 without a college degree. The difference is it is way more dangerous and hard work. The point of college is so you can earn that much and not work your ass off every day working overtime hours and not being there for your family. College is still a necessity if your kids want to be at the top of a company or make a lot of money. Yes they can start their own business but unless
You are willing to stake them that is a pipe dream
Without them getting work experience and making enough they can do it themselves. Banks are not
Going to give anyone a loan with running their business for six months or more.

YouBet said:

---

I'm guessing there are only 1-2 colleges left in the country that would be worth attending to get a classical education....Hillsdale probably being one of those or the only one.

Outside of Hillsdale, university needs to be completely revamped to focus on degrees and career paths that are needed and add value. I'm not sure what it looks like these days and my memory is hazy but Germany had a setup like many of you are advocating here (if it's still that way) where they had a much bigger focus on universities geared toward applied sciences and technical tracks.

---

Check out the newly created University of Austin. Like Hillsdale without the Freewill Baptist connection.

shiftyandquick said:

---

we will need people to work in all the factories as America makes everything "at home" and reverts back to the industrial age while the rest of the world is progressing to the post-information age.

So why go to college when you want your kids to work in factories? Makes no sense.

---

If de globalization continues and we decide we are not going to be the world police as we've been for the last 80 years, the rest of the world won't be progressing at all outside of a much smaller number of countries.

Many will be trying to figure out how to feed their people and cover Mazlows basics. That's the bigger picture and why there is a push to bolster manufacturing here. We are pulling back and pivoting to the western hemisphere.

That will leave much of the rest of the planet on their own...if this trend continues.

Quote:

---

The point of college is so you can earn that much and not work your ass off every day working overtime hours and not being there for your family.

---

My first job was for my dad's concrete company. After a couple summers of laying concrete from sun up to sun down, he sat me down and said, "You can go to college and work with your brain, or you can be like me and work with your back for the rest of your life."

Ryan the Temp said:

---

Quote:

---

The point of college is so you can earn that much and not work your ass off every day working overtime hours and not being there for your family.

---

My first job was for my dad's concrete company. After a couple summers of laying concrete from sun up to sun down, he sat me down and said, "You can go to college and work with your brain, or you can be like me and work with your back for the rest of your life."

---

My father had a contractors company. I worked doing all the labor jobs and did not want to work in that environment for my life. I respect all those that do. I would not say that college was a waste of time and money. It taught me many life lessons and built a great network of friends and business people that I would not have been exposed to. I had a great time at A&M. A lot of my time is spent talking about and watching Aggie sports. I would not have had that love for this without being on campus. Yes u can be a fan of A&M sports without going there, but I take pride because I went there didn't buy the tshirt.
The Aggie network is real. I do agree that engineers don't need poly sci and wasteful coarses that don't pertain to their degree plan.
On a different note, not all people that open their own business make it.

I believe you should do what ever your heart desires and if it takes a college degree to do it go to college. If you want to work in a specific trade for the rest of your life go to that trade school. If you want to take a shot at owning your own business, learn as much as you can about it, take some business classes that pertain to what you need to know about running a business and do that. Just go the route that takes you to your end goal. Mine was college and I would do it again
Then there is which four year college. I don't understand the allure to spend 5090 k a year on tuition. on college. A&M is around 30-35k a year all in. And I would say that you get a network of people in the work force that you have a common interest with. When I see a plumbing business that says Aggie owned. I immediately have trust in them and will usually use them for my jobs. This is plumbing electrical remodel stuff

Ryan the Temp said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Jarrin Jay said:

---

Worse yet, think about the community college systems. Taxpayers heavily subsidize those colleges and the my are mostly worthless.

---

Community colleges are where the tech certs come from. They're not worthless.

---

Houston Community College offers programs in hospitality, nursing, culinary arts, and firefighting.

---

At this point I'd say community college is a better value than a 4 year university with the exception of a few degree programs.

Buck Turgidson said:

---

YouBet said:

---

I'm guessing there are only 1-2 colleges left in the country that would be worth attending to get a classical education....Hillsdale probably being one of those or the only one.

Outside of Hillsdale, university needs to be completely revamped to focus on degrees and career paths that are needed and add value. I'm not sure what it looks like these days and my memory is hazy but Germany had a setup like many of you are advocating here (if it's still that way) where they had a much bigger focus on universities geared toward applied sciences and technical tracks.

---

Check out the newly created University of Austin. Like Hillsdale without the Freewill Baptist connection.

---

Hillsdale might be the best thing going in higher education right now.

I read a dad's social media post yesterday in which he said he was proud of his just-graduated son who has received $800,000 in scholarships.

That is a gigantic amount of money to set on fire. Would make no sense to me whatsoever.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

I read a dad's social media post yesterday in which he said he was proud of his just-graduated son who has received $800,000 in scholarships.

That is a gigantic amount of money to set on fire. Would make no sense to me whatsoever.

---

That doesn't even make sense. I'm guessing the dad did not go to college and has no concept of money and got these figure wrong.

Or, maybe I'm totally out of touch and there are colleges that actually cost close to $1M to attend now.

YouBet said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

I read a dad's social media post yesterday in which he said he was proud of his just-graduated son who has received $800,000 in scholarships.

That is a gigantic amount of money to set on fire. Would make no sense to me whatsoever.

---

That doesn't even make sense. I'm guessing the dad did not go to college and has no concept of money and got these figure wrong.

Or, maybe I'm totally out of touch and there are colleges that actually cost close to $1M to attend now.

---

All the HS grads total up all their scholarship offers from all the schools. So my kid went to Mich st and got enough scholarship money to make it equal to going to A&M (of course that did not take into account all the travel etc), but he would have had $150k from that one school. Nebraska offered him about the same. See how the game is played. If I'm wrong someone help me out.

Stressboy said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

I read a dad's social media post yesterday in which he said he was proud of his just-graduated son who has received $800,000 in scholarships.

That is a gigantic amount of money to set on fire. Would make no sense to me whatsoever.

---

That doesn't even make sense. I'm guessing the dad did not go to college and has no concept of money and got these figure wrong.

Or, maybe I'm totally out of touch and there are colleges that actually cost close to $1M to attend now.

---

All the HS grads total up all their scholarship offers from all the schools. So my kid went to Mich st and got enough scholarship money to make it equal to going to A&M (of course that did not take into account all the travel etc), but he would have had $150k from that one school. Nebraska offered him about the same. See how the game is played. If I'm wrong someone help me out.

---

Oh. I misinterpreted that as all coming from one school.

Actually, he works in financial services. So, maybe he's lying. Regardless, ridiculous.

BTHOB-98 said:

---

We have bigger problems. The Boomers and then GenX are about to be out of the workforce in the trades.

Per Google AI Overview

Multiple sources confirm a severe skilled trades labor shortage in the United States, driven by a wave of retirements from the baby boomer generation
. While the specific figure of 500,000 tradesmen retiring in the next 10 years was not confirmed by recent data, the numbers and broader trends indicate a massive exodus of experienced workers.
Key data points and findings include:

• Massive retirement wave: Nearly half of all skilled tradespeople are projected to retire within the next decade. Baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, constitute 25% of the U.S. workforce, and most are expected to retire within this timeframe.
• Low replacement rate: For every five tradespeople who retire, only two new workers enter the field. This creates a critical hiring challenge across the board.
• Skilled job deficits: This trend is expected to leave more than 3 million skilled trade jobs unfilled by 2028. In construction alone, the Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) reported a shortage of over 725,000 workers in October 2024, an increase from 500,000 earlier that year.
• Specific industry impact:
  
  • HVAC: The shortage of HVAC technicians is expected to reach 225,000 in the next five years.
  • Plumbing: The U.S. is projected to be short 550,000 plumbers by 2027.
  • Welding: In 2025, the American Welding Society estimates a national shortage of 400,000 skilled welders.
  • Electricians: The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics anticipates an average of 73,500 job openings for electricians every year through 2032 due to retirements and other career changes.
• Root causes of the shortage:
  
  • Aging workforce: The average age of craft workers has steadily increased, with over 40% of skilled workers currently over 45 years old.
  • Decline in vocational training: A push for four-year college degrees has led to the widespread elimination of shop classes in high schools, discouraging younger generations from considering the trades.
  • Negative perception: For years, trade jobs have been seen as less prestigious than white-collar careers, a perception that Gen Z is now starting to reverse.

The mass retirement of experienced tradesmen is creating a significant and persistent skilled labor shortage, raising both challenges and new opportunities for the next generation of workers.

---

A component of this shortage was the massive illegal influx since the mid to late 80s. Illegal labor to a large degree supplanted legal tradesmen and drove the market value artificially lower.

ts5641 said:

---

Ryan the Temp said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Jarrin Jay said:

---

Worse yet, think about the community college systems. Taxpayers heavily subsidize those colleges and the my are mostly worthless.

---

Community colleges are where the tech certs come from. They're not worthless.

---

Houston Community College offers programs in hospitality, nursing, culinary arts, and firefighting.

---

At this point I'd say community college is a better value than a 4 year university with the exception of a few degree programs.

---

If you can attend a two year CC and live at home, it's the best value. Finish the final two years at a university.