Doesn't China impose the death penalty for lethal traffic like this? On one level, do they really object to this. Doubtful.

Quote:

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flown-the-coop:

Defending drug smugglers over lives of our American youth is what feels like AI or psyops.

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Hmm. Wonder if this could be. On the related thread it was pointed out how this story did get strarted up in the "ginned up" fashion like Russiagate.

jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

Getting into wars is easy, finding the exit strategy is always the most expensive part of waring.

titan said:

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Doesn't China impose the death penalty for lethal traffic like this? On one level, do they really object to this. Doubtful.

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Yes, in their country, but they simultaneously promote it for us. It's calculated strategy on their part to degrade the USA. It's been heavily reported and validated they are the origin source and funding for fentanyl production and promotion. One of the main negotiation points in Trump's recent trade deal with Xi was to get them to stop pushing fentanyl here through the cartels. He supposedly got them to commit to this which is why he then relinquished on some of our demands. I think he's delusional in thinking they will actually stop, but he also knows there isn't a whole lot he can do directly to China to stop it. I also vehemently disagree with the gives he made to China with that deal. Different topic though.

Thus, also one of the reasons he's now going after the cartels directly. They are in our backyard and we have more direct control over them than we do China who is an ocean away and a superpower.

TikTok is another example. They apparently do not allow remotely anything like what is allowed on the US version of it because they know it's a cancer. But they push the cultural rot version of it on us. Also the reason why both current admin and past admin were/are getting it re-based in the USA so they can try and stop China's direct influence over it with the US version.

Serious Lee said:

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jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

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He is right. You don't even have to be losing. We dropped the rules of submarine warfare first. Churchill did the same. Not the Axis. So actually rules in warfare are kind of silly -- the most effective ones are ones that try to make some provision for PoWs once captured and actually in a camp. Those have slowly but surely improved. But even there any gains were lost once war involved Islamists, as you have seen they have regressed to levels in Hamas that would have daunted (but not frightened) Rome.

titan said:

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Serious Lee said:

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jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

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He is right. You don't even have to be losing. We dropped the rules of submarine warfare first. Churchill did the same. Not the Axis. So actually rules in warfare are kind of silly -- the most effective ones are ones that try to make some provision for PoWs once captured and actually in a camp. Those have slowly but surely improved. But even there any gains were lost once war involved Islamists, as you have seen they have regressed to levels in Hamas that would have daunted (but not frightened) Rome.

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And because of that, Nimitz provided an letter to the Nuremburg tribunal that prevented Admiral Donitz from being punished for conducting unrestricted submarine warfare because the US committed the same breach from the day we entered the war with Japan.

Rapier108 said:

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titan said:

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Serious Lee said:

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jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

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He is right. You don't even have to be losing. We dropped the rules of submarine warfare first. Churchill did the same. Not the Axis. So actually rules in warfare are kind of silly -- the most effective ones are ones that try to make some provision for PoWs once captured and actually in a camp. Those have slowly but surely improved. But even there any gains were lost once war involved Islamists, as you have seen they have regressed to levels in Hamas that would have daunted (but not frightened) Rome.

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And because of that, Nimitz provided an letter to the Nuremburg tribunal that prevented Admiral Doenitz from being punished for conducting unrestricted submarine warfare because the US committed the same breach from the day we entered the war with Japan.

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Exactly. And the interesting thing is Doenitz only got into that because when his subs tried to rescue, they were attacked and so he gave an order not to do it anymore that they tried to get him on post-war. But Nimitz felt more impartially about it.

That is true of course, and you are right about those aspects of it. I think it might go further -- its just possible Xi said I won't give you any flack going after the transports. Maybe even a freer hand in South America. To China its probably a side-show once you have an American President willing to get frisky about it.

Rapier108 said:

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titan said:

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Serious Lee said:

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jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

---

He is right. You don't even have to be losing. We dropped the rules of submarine warfare first. Churchill did the same. Not the Axis. So actually rules in warfare are kind of silly -- the most effective ones are ones that try to make some provision for PoWs once captured and actually in a camp. Those have slowly but surely improved. But even there any gains were lost once war involved Islamists, as you have seen they have regressed to levels in Hamas that would have daunted (but not frightened) Rome.

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And because of that, Nimitz provided an letter to the Nuremburg tribunal that prevented Admiral Donitz from being punished for conducting unrestricted submarine warfare because the US committed the same breach from the day we entered the war with Japan.

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Titan…Rapier please see Peleus trial.

No one is saying that unrestricted submarine warfare is bad…but none of our guys went back up and started shooting at survivors floating in a life raft.

The major example during the war, Peleus, we took to trial and executed the Captain.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Titan…Rapier please see Peleus trial.

No one is saying that unrestricted submarine warfare is bad…but none of our guys went back up and started shooting at survivors floating in a life raft.

The major example during the war, Peleus, we took to trial and executed the Captain.

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Are you saying you have facts and evidence to share that the 2nd "attack" target men in life rafts?

I had not heard that.

flown-the-coop said:

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Defending drug smugglers over lives of our American youth is what feels like AI or psyops.

You do you. I do America First.

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Again, no one is defending drug smugglers, you can keep saying this, but it's as true as your claim that blowing up a few supposed drug boats (which would be carrying cocaine, not fent) saved 25,000 Americans!!

A bull**** claim from Trump's knob polishing conference.


1. These boats are imminent threats to America? How? They literally can't make it here without island hopping
2. Venezuela just makes cocaine... not Fentanyl in any meaningful amounts.
3. What's up with this:

Quote:

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" Former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernndez, who went from close U.S. ally in the war on drugs to a poster child for presidential corruption in Central America, is on the verge of becoming once again a friend of the United States with President Donald Trump's intention to pardon him.

The 57-year-old former two-term president was sentenced last year to 45 years in U.S. prison for helping drug traffickers to safely move hundreds of tons of cocaine north through his country to the U.S"

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He was pardoned.

War on drugs my ass.

EDIT: Oh, I see coop already defended this with more "BUT BIDEN" So never mind, I guess. Trump can do no wrong. He can pardon drug lords and claim a war on drugs in the same day and maga eats it up.

He spilled his guts for a pardon

All you want us to say is that Trump and Hegseth are guilty of war crimes.

ETFan said:

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He was pardoned.

War on drugs my ass.

EDIT: Oh, I see coop already defended this with more "BUT BIDEN" So never mind, I guess. Trump can do no wrong. He can pardon drug lords and claim a war on drugs in the same day and maga eats it up.

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So is your working theory (or Reddit / BlueSky theory) that Trump is taking out the drug runners on one hand, then freeing Honduran head narco trafficker so he can take advantage of the open market now that Venezuela is being removed from the picture here? I mean, its not fact based but it would at least have some logic to it.

Or... the Honduran president, who per your own article was previously helpful in the "war on drugs", was targeted by the Biden admin because they didn't like his "right-wing" policies and like Cuellar needed to be sidelined. By Trump pardoning this guy he restores an ally in the region during a critical time in that country and maybe... just maybe... has more information than ETFan does regarding what the actual evidence was (and was not).

You libs want to free Abrego-Garcia and coronate narco-terrorist sailors but if Trump does anything you are against (or simply do not understand) then Orange Man must be stopped.

Its a real sad look for Team Blue and their squishy middle counterparts.

Burpelson said:

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Getting into wars is easy, finding the exit strategy is always the most expensive part of waring.

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Brings up an interesting question.
What wars has President Tump gotten us into? He did end one quickly that others got us into like destroying the ISIS Caliphate in a few months (that Obama said was impossible).
What is the current count of wars he has brokered an end to 7 maybe 8?
And you are right finding an end to wars is difficult.

Rapier108 said:

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All you want us to say is that Trump and Hegseth are guilty of war crimes.

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Exactly. Just like they wanted you to say he was an insurrectionist, a tax cheat, a russian spy, a porn star connoisseur, an ugly grilled cheese lingerie room diddler.

Hell, he is also battling cankles, spots on his hand, and MRI that captured dementia, and he can no longer stay awake in meetings.

The space Trump takes up daily in the minds of libs (I know, small space to occupy) is truly amazing.

richardag said:

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Burpelson said:

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Getting into wars is easy, finding the exit strategy is always the most expensive part of waring.

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Brings up an interesting question.
What wars has President Tump gotten us into? He did end one quickly that others got us into like destroying the ISIS Caliphate in a few months (that Obama said was impossible).
What is the current count of wars he has brokered an end to 7 maybe 8?
And you are right finding an end to wars is difficult.

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Obama partly said it was impossible because Brennan wanted them there. Part of the anti-Assad and arab spring nonsense.

There goes the narrative... Another BS MSM fake news controversy that was cooked up to try and hurt Trump/his admin.

ABC’s Martha Raddatz on Wednesday’s ‘World News Tonight’ about drug boat-gate: “And tonight, new information: According to a source familiar with the incident, the two survivors climbed back on to the boat after the initial strike. They were believed to be potentially in… pic.twitter.com/R5eHFzzDql

— Curtis Houck (@CurtisHouck) December 4, 2025

The concept of a "war crime" is nothing but a mechanism to hamstring western militaries in favor of terrorists who are exempt. There is a reason we haven't won a war since those have been in place. The entire concept should be trashed.

The ONLY reason the lives of enemy civilians should be considered at all is if doing so helps US win the war. The quicker the war ends, the more lives saved. Lingering wars that last 20 years does nothing but kill more people anyway.

What sad is that this was known since the story broke. I will have to look for it, but it was either Hegseth or some spox that said the thought was these guys were still "on mission" to deliver the drugs and also contact co-conspirators.

Or maybe it was the simply application of logic of what went on here versus the MSM and their lemmings doing the OMG Muh Trumpz Warez Crimez!

But it provided pages of entertainment for me. Trump doesn't do war crimes. That is an Obama era policy.

War is hell and to your point should be ended as expediently as possible, collateral damage and all.

That was the same rationale used for convoy attacks by carrier task forces. Its why this has
always seemed overblown.

Even Reagan put not one but two SAM SM-2MRs into an Iranian commercial airliner. I don't recall war crimes being discussed because of the 2nd missile was fired. Heck, back then the media actually covered for the admin for at least several years. Which was rich as they were completely opposite in their coverage of KAL007 heavily criticizing the Soviets, though I am sure that was again at the behest of the admin.

It the first strike on the boat was good, the 2nd clean up strike is equally good. Any parsing out about maritime laws and such is nonsense.

I am for the continued sinking of these boats, but I suspect this strategy will be changed. One of the talking heads on Fox seemed to think that the cartels will start putting women, children and even kittens on the boats hoping that the US makes a mistake can kills the proverbial bus full of nuns.

Whether it's via land ops or non-lethal measures on the sea, the goals will be pursued but this one has gotten sticky enough that they move on.

K2-HMFIC said:

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Rapier108 said:

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titan said:

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Serious Lee said:

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jesse, a former marine, gets it.

I laugh when I hear rules of war from these types. pic.twitter.com/ZGjV6C5av2

— Jesse Kelly Show (@JesseKellyShow) December 3, 2025

---

He is right. You don't even have to be losing. We dropped the rules of submarine warfare first. Churchill did the same. Not the Axis. So actually rules in warfare are kind of silly -- the most effective ones are ones that try to make some provision for PoWs once captured and actually in a camp. Those have slowly but surely improved. But even there any gains were lost once war involved Islamists, as you have seen they have regressed to levels in Hamas that would have daunted (but not frightened) Rome.

---

And because of that, Nimitz provided an letter to the Nuremburg tribunal that prevented Admiral Donitz from being punished for conducting unrestricted submarine warfare because the US committed the same breach from the day we entered the war with Japan.

---

Titan…Rapier please see Peleus trial.

No one is saying that unrestricted submarine warfare is bad…but none of our guys went back up and started shooting at survivors floating in a life raft.

The major example during the war, Peleus, we took to trial and executed the Captain.

---

To be fair this happened with a US Sub as well in WW2. In January 1943 the USS Wahoo surfaced amongst the wreck of a Japanese troop ship and fired on the lifeboats (20 or so of various sizes) with the 4" deck gun and machine gun. They claimed they received fire first, but fired for "no more than 15 minutes".

Whilst we await comments regarding the Bradley testimony (after House briefing a Dem was saying the video of the 2nd attack was the worst thing he has ever seen)…

(Warning: verbal foul language if you play with sound on)

🤣🤣🤣 We rule!
pic.twitter.com/5K8FHIEYIi

— Buzz Patterson (@BuzzPatterson) December 4, 2025

Who posted about the video? I can't find anything - my prediction: Bradley is going to smooth the whole thing over. Master communicator. Like watching a TED talk any time he speaks.

The comment on the video cam from a house member after he got out of that briefing. I did not catch the name nor have seen a clip. I am sure he tweeted about.

Democrats can't identify a woman, a criminal, a peaceful protest, dementia, or which bathroom to use, but they sure can identify a fishing boat when they see one 🤡 🌎 pic.twitter.com/G0WR3VJTNH

— Mike Engleman🇺🇲 (@RealHickory) December 4, 2025

REPORTER: "Mr. President, with the boat strikes, if it is found that survivors were actually killed while clinging on to that boat, should Secretary Hegseth, Admiral Bradley or others be punished?"

PRESIDENT TRUMP: "I think you're going to find that this is war — that these… pic.twitter.com/H2iNOSR7qu

— Fox News (@FoxNews) December 3, 2025

"IBT Trump's hair is getting wilder and whiter further evidencing his dementia and physical decline." - MS NOW

flown-the-coop said:

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"IBT Trump's hair is getting wilder and whiter further evidencing his dementia and physical decline." - MS NOW

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I'm no fan of his fiscal liberalism at every turn, but that argument would be really dumb. He's constantly in front of MSM and cameras, answering questions and not wandering/dawdling off in various directions like the ever-fumbling Biden....and they touted him as being the most mentally fit leader since Plato.

The countries most responsible for drugs entering the US (production and transit) are Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama. Going to war with Venezuela, or imposing a "fentanyl tariff" on Canada has nothing to do with actual drug numbers. Kill all the drug smugglers you want, from wherever, but there are tons of anti-American strongmen like Maduro in the world. Invading their countries because they've pissed off the President on social media or cozied up to the CCP is not the role of the US military.

flown-the-coop said:

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Even Reagan put not one but two SAM SM-2MRs into an Iranian commercial airliner. I don't recall war crimes being discussed because of the 2nd missile was fired. Heck, back then the media actually covered for the admin for at least several years. Which was rich as they were completely opposite in their coverage of KAL007 heavily criticizing the Soviets, though I am sure that was again at the behest of the admin.

It the first strike on the boat was good, the 2nd clean up strike is equally good. Any parsing out about maritime laws and such is nonsense.

I am for the continued sinking of these boats, but I suspect this strategy will be changed. One of the talking heads on Fox seemed to think that the cartels will start putting women, children and even kittens on the boats hoping that the US makes a mistake can kills the proverbial bus full of nuns.

Whether it's via land ops or non-lethal measures on the sea, the goals will be pursued but this one has gotten sticky enough that they move on.

---

we studied this case of the Iranian airliner in a grad course I took on "Decision Making Under Crisis"

one of the officers onboard the USS Vincennes saw the plane pop up on the radar and thought it was a fighter being deployed from Bandar Abbas

this was a time of frequent exchange of fire with the Iranians.

he and others did not realize the blip had a different signature than a commercial airliner

AGROAg88 said:

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The countries most responsible for drugs entering the US (production and transit) are Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama. Going to war with Venezuela, or imposing a "fentanyl tariff" on Canada has nothing to do with actual drug numbers. Kill all the drug smugglers you want, from wherever, but there are tons of anti-American strongmen like Maduro in the world. Invading their countries because they've pissed off the President on social media or cozied up to the CCP is not the role of the US military.

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Thank you for your attention to this matter. This is EXACTLY what Trump is doing. And its working.