amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

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Exercise also reduces inflammation and the risk neurodegenerative diseases. It's also free.

Teslag said:

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LMCane said:

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how ironic will it be when they discover the side effects of GLP 1s are worse than just being fat

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For most people the side effects when taken as directly are fatigue and nausea, and those are usually the day or two after injection.

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That's what we now of for now.

amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

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Another factor not yet mentioned is it seems well documented by the MAHA movement of RFK that our producers clutter the food with all kinds of extra problematical agents compared to their European counterparts. So some of the obesity may not be that voluntary.

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

---

Exercise also reduces inflammation and the risk neurodegenerative diseases. It's also free.

---

Yep. Exercise is one of the best thing you can do for brain health.

It doesn't help as much with weight loss as people think though. Neither does dieting when you get to a certain point. The body was evolved basically for the goal of not starving to death. So if you even tickle the pathways involved in that your body works like hell to maintain whatever weight you are at, even if it's 500lbs.

That's what make the glp1 miracle drugs. They trick your brain into believing you are full, so it doesn't go into panic mode.

titan said:

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amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

---

Another factor not yet mentioned is it seems well documented by the MAHA movement of RFK that our producers clutter the food with all kinds of extra problematical agents compared to their European counterparts. So some of the obesity may not be that voluntary.

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Europeans walk and smoke a lot more. That's probably 70% of it

amercer said:

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titan said:

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amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

---

Another factor not yet mentioned is it seems well documented by the MAHA movement of RFK that our producers clutter the food with all kinds of extra problematical agents compared to their European counterparts. So some of the obesity may not be that voluntary.

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Europeans walk and smoke a lot more. That's probably 70% of it

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Walking makes a huge difference. It's one of the big things I miss about being a college student.

The USA is insanely car-dependent.

amercer said:

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Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

---

Exercise also reduces inflammation and the risk neurodegenerative diseases. It's also free.

---

Yep. Exercise is one of the best thing you can do for brain health.

It doesn't help as much with weight loss as people think though. Neither does dieting when you get to a certain point. The body was evolved basically for the goal of not starving to death. So if you even tickle the pathways involved in that your body works like hell to maintain whatever weight you are at, even if it's 500lbs.

That's what make the glp1 miracle drugs. They trick your brain into believing you are full, so it doesn't go into panic mode.

---

Intriguing. Hadn't heard that aspect before put that way. So it may bear some resemblance to the problem that with addicts, it is not simply just a matter of discipline, but that their neural pathways have genuinely been rewired to crave the drug --- to feel it essential -- not merely "wanting it" like one might want a snack.

In such case an addict can break it only by draconian use of the will on the front end. Not taking the first step. I will not touch the bottle even if think I am dying kind of will. But that is rare.

amercer said:

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Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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amercer said:

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A lot of neurodegenerative diseases are heavily associated with inflammation. Being fat leads to a lot of inflammation.

There may be some other, yet uncovered, mechanisms by which glp1 can help, but that's an obvious one for starters

---

Exercise also reduces inflammation and the risk neurodegenerative diseases. It's also free.

---

Yep. Exercise is one of the best thing you can do for brain health.

It doesn't help as much with weight loss as people think though. Neither does dieting when you get to a certain point. The body was evolved basically for the goal of not starving to death. So if you even tickle the pathways involved in that your body works like hell to maintain whatever weight you are at, even if it's 500lbs.

That's what make the glp1 miracle drugs. They trick your brain into believing you are full, so it doesn't go into panic mode.

---

Exercise alone doesn't help with adipose tissue loss much, correct. However, a deficit in caloric intake alone does lead to a reduction in adipose tissue. You can't take in the same amount of calories and increase caloric expenditure and not lose weight. The not easy part is the hunger and will power. Some people have more will power than others. These drugs simply are an easy button to making you feel less hungry. They can also lead to sarcopenia if protein intake isn't elevated in conjunction with taking them. They are an easy way to be less fat, but the best way is still eating less and exercising more. It really is that simple.

Keller6Ag91 said:

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Teslag said:

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LMCane said:

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how ironic will it be when they discover the side effects of GLP 1s are worse than just being fat

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For most people the side effects when taken as directly are fatigue and nausea, and those are usually the day or two after injection.

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That's what we now of for now.

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GLP-1's have been around for almost 20 years now. These aren't new drugs.

I know people on here probably have an aversion to Nova. Woke PBS yada yada. But this episode is one of the best explanations I've ever seen on the biological roots of the problem:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-truth-about-fat/

Now to take it back to politics for a minute. Completely coincidentally, yesterday Lilly and Novo were announced as two of the recipients of priority review vouchers from the FDA under a new program. Generally priority review vouchers are valued at about 200 million each….

Teslag said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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Teslag said:

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LMCane said:

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how ironic will it be when they discover the side effects of GLP 1s are worse than just being fat

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For most people the side effects when taken as directly are fatigue and nausea, and those are usually the day or two after injection.

---

That's what we now of for now.

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GLP-1's have been around for almost 20 years now. These aren't new drugs.

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The class isn't new, but the drugs themselves are evolving rapidly. Exenatide was approved in 2005. It had much worse side effects than the GLP 1s we have now. Semaglutide and Terzipatide have improved on those side effects a lot, but to say they are the same as the drugs from 20 years ago isn't accurate at all. There still are some significant side effects. They're just reduced from what they used to be.

amercer said:

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Better living through chemistry.

These drugs help with basically every big issue in public health. 90% of Americans will be on them in the next few decades

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And there will be new drugs needed to counteract all the negative crap these create. Counter one issue to create another and keep the money rolling in.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Those of us who have spent years being self disciplined and putting in the work and putting down the fork are a little irritated.

Big brother never subsidized most of the costs of my gym membership and workout equipment. Not one cent was eligible until just this past year even for HSA spending.

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So you're mad that your mid body doesn't look as good around a lesser percentage of fatty's?

Why would you care? Sounds pretty weak.

I'm glad the tax payer could step in to help subsidize that gym membership. You're welcome no need to thank us.

Street Fighter said:

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amercer said:

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Better living through chemistry.

These drugs help with basically every big issue in public health. 90% of Americans will be on them in the next few decades

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And there will be new drugs needed to counteract all the negative crap these create. Counter one issue to create another and keep the money rolling in.

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Rogaine......for male baldness, but makes your wang limp.

Here, take this....viagra, for that limp dick, but that makes you bald.

D'oh!

These meds will have unseen/unforeseen side effects. There simply isn't a chemical cure-all. I say this as an ex fatty of gigantic proportions. I've lost an entire fatass.

The article gave no details.

Who is getting screwed in this transaction? Or who isn't making as much money as before?

Hogties said:

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Vepp said:

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Obesity drugs.

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Please explain the hate. It would cost effective to ship these drugs for free to every obese person on SNAP and Medicaid or receiving large ObamaCare subsidies and require weigh ins every 6 months.

Would save hundreds of billions of dollars.

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It's the easy way out. Instead of being self-disciplined and making meaningful changes people inject themselves with a new so called wonder drug. Sound familiar? Oh, I know I know, it's safe and effective.

Anyhow, keep pumping meds into yourself. We will see who lives longer.

The only issue with this is that like everything else, we never look at the root cause for why we are unhealthy. Just another bandaid to continue with the status quo

Dan Scott said:

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The article gave no details.

Who is getting screwed in this transaction? Or who isn't making as much money as before?

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The Pharmas drop the price some, but get access to 50 million potential patients with the gov picking up the tab.

Lilly stock is up 10% in the last month

So taxpayer gets screwed. More of the same subsiding the wealthy

I mean, the argument, made on this thread as well, that this is a preventative treatment that will save a lot of other healthcare costs isn't wrong.

But no Pharma is losing money in the deals they are doing with Trump.

Dan Scott said:

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The only issue with this is that like everything else, we never look at the root cause for why we are unhealthy. Just another bandaid to continue with the status quo

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MAHA is about the root cause, our horribly unhealthy ultra processed foods and a SNAP program that subsidizes fatty producing foods for the poor.

What else would you like to see?

Hogties said:

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Dan Scott said:

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The only issue with this is that like everything else, we never look at the root cause for why we are unhealthy. Just another bandaid to continue with the status quo

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MAHA is about the root cause, our horribly unhealthy ultra processed foods and a SNAP program that subsidizes fatty producing foods for the poor.

What else would you like to see?

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The root cause isn't the food. Its the fatty holding the fork. There are plenty of garbage foods you can choose not to eat. Everybody wants someone or something to blame except themselves.

Stop eating so much and maybe workout some more and the result is being less fat. It's not the trace amount of red dye in fruit loops. Its the fact that you're eating fruit loops.

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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Teslag said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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Teslag said:

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LMCane said:

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how ironic will it be when they discover the side effects of GLP 1s are worse than just being fat

---

For most people the side effects when taken as directly are fatigue and nausea, and those are usually the day or two after injection.

---

That's what we now of for now.

---

GLP-1's have been around for almost 20 years now. These aren't new drugs.

---

The class isn't new, but the drugs themselves are evolving rapidly. Exenatide was approved in 2005. It had much worse side effects than the GLP 1s we have now. Semaglutide and Terzipatide have improved on those side effects a lot, but to say they are the same as the drugs from 20 years ago isn't accurate at all. There still are some significant side effects. They're just reduced from what they used to be.

---

No one said there aren't any side effects. All meds have side effects. His implication were that we don't know the long term side effects because these are new drugs. We basically do, because we understand the mechanism at this point in how the drug works and interacts with the body.

Teslag said:

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Not necessarily. The drug leads to no food cravings or even enjoyment of food. It's easier for people to make better choices when a salad is as appealing as a greasy cheeseburger and fries because both sound awful.

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True, though I was able to get to the salad is appealing by exercise and diet with continued strict discipline.

My doctor offered the drug to me, saying I could lose between 20-30 pounds if I got on it.

I've lost sixty without ever getting in it.

I know everyone and every body is different, but if a guy like me that used to be almost 50% BMI for thirty years can do it, barring physiological road blocks, I know others can as well without the drug.

For those whose brain or body just can't no matter what they do, and if the drug does indeed help them after dieting and exercise can't, more power to them.

Now to see if the drug companies and physicians use this government intervention as a way to add extra money into their pockets.

This is absolutely true. Ingredients lists for equivalent products are considerably shorter in when I was shopping overseas.

Some of that may be different reporting requirements but there is a lot of conformity on those as it would make sense to list all ingredients so that products are export compliant with the US market.


Basically, a lot of those additives just aren't there and many of them serve no purpose other than enhancing appearance or making the shelf life a bit longer.

What? No. I'm irritated that for decades millions of people have been getting health care subsidies for being obese and all the litany of health side effects and resulting conditions but those of us who worked hard to stay healthy got squat. I think that's worthy of some level of resentment. If we aren't contributing to the high costs, why should we pay the same taxes towards health care that heavy consumers of resources do?



My point is NO taxpayer subsidized my gym membership ever, even though it has resulted in me being much less of a burden on the healthcare system now and into the future, at least for matters I can control. And yet, taxpayers for years have been subsidizing fatties to be fat by keeping them alive longer with all sorts of health care for the resulting conditions.


I don't eee what is so hard to understand about this. I'm not particularly angry with obese people in general but I think we haven't asked them to bear the full costs of their lifetimes of overindulgence when we subsidize treatment of their health conditions, and if we can pay them to lose weight with one drug, that is probably a relative bargain.

We also subsidize medical costs for people who worked too hard, alcoholics, smokers, those with depression, and the list goes on and on. The far majority of those costs are all preventable. Where do you want to draw the line? What makes weight loss drugs here so especially hated vs all the other preventable issues?

People on this forum love to fat shame, and then turn around and shame them again when they pursue a medical solution instead of a dietary one. Where is the alcohol shaming? The depression shaming? Why should people work to the point of stress when they could avoid stress altogether?

And for the record I'm in favor of getting the fed government out of ALL medical assistance and subsidizing, regardless of age. Get rid of it all and let the free market provide solutions with as minimal government regulation as needed.

Edit to add: This is bad Trump because its expanding the government's role in healthcare and making people more dependent on government programs, not because its about weight loss drugs.

Vepp said:

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Obesity drugs.

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The problem with this medication is that when/if you stop taking it then you will balloon back to where you were. The key is too change your eating and exercise habits. The drugs will help you to reach your goals, the lifestyle changes will keep you there.

TacoKitKat said:

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The entire damned population didn't just lose self control overnight.

We poisoned people.

We poisoned people with cheap corn based ingredients like high fructose corn syrup stuffed in every food imaginable, and federal guidelines like the food pyramid that told people eating real food like red meat, butter, and eggs was unhealthy.

We did it to buy votes from key lobbies and pay back donors.

The GLP1s are good drugs. They do a lot to help fix the damage our policies have caused. Make em cheap, get America healthy again, start repairing the damage our foolish government policies enabled.

Once that's done, let's start repairing the hormonal damage we've done to the populace as well. We're a freak show of low T men and depressed women on hormonal birth control. RFK's a nut but he might be worth something here.

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We lost a lot of discipline overnight. A lot of sedentary jobs make people sit at a desk all day instead of doing manual labor. There are many many more modern conveniences that contribute to less movement (cell phones, Netflix, video games, etc). All of that coupled with the ease of over eating. You can door dash, get fast food at every corner...

Some people with discipline choose not to take the easy road. Everyone has a choice. Don't watch too much TV, walk around at work every once in a while and don't eat garbage. It's really not anyone else's fault, no matter how much people try to say that it is. It's the man in the mirror

Spotted Ag said:

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Hogties said:

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Vepp said:

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Obesity drugs.

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Please explain the hate. It would cost effective to ship these drugs for free to every obese person on SNAP and Medicaid or receiving large ObamaCare subsidies and require weigh ins every 6 months.

Would save hundreds of billions of dollars.

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It's the easy way out. Instead of being self-disciplined and making meaningful changes people inject themselves with a new so called wonder drug. Sound familiar? Oh, I know I know, it's safe and effective.

Anyhow, keep pumping meds into yourself. We will see who lives longer.

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So what if it's "the easy way out"? Weight loss is not an Olympic event with rules against performance-enhancing drugs.

As long as people pay for these drugs with their own money, why does it bother you?

doubledog said:

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Vepp said:

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Obesity drugs.

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The problem with this medication is that when/if you stop taking it then you will balloon back to where you were. The key is too change your eating and exercise habits. The drugs will help you to reach your goals, the lifestyle changes will keep you there.

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Correct. I took Ozempic briefly and when I got off it was an insatiable urge to eat. Taken Munjauro now for about 6 months and drippy close to 50 pounds.

But weight loss is not the only benefit. It doesn't necessarily make the urge to drink less but the effects from drinking are amplified so regardless you simply don't want to drink less because of the results (worse hangover) or increased effects (as the alcohol absorbs slower it increases the uptake before it is filtered out).

There are also huge anti-inflammatory effects that could very well provide even greater health benefits than just the weight loss.

Am I a bit anxious over taking a medicine where the actual mechanisms of how and why they work are still being understood? Yea, it gives me pause. But it is worth the risk in my threat assessment matrix.

But… as you correctly and astutely point out, you have to change the lifestyle as well. But making some of those changes becomes easier and is reinforced as you are dropping off some of the pounds.