Queso1 said:

---

I do not defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization. Their attack on Israeli civilians was abhorrent. I'm not sure why this is even an issue. I do not recognize Palestine as a sovereign nation.

---

The war was 100% the fault of Hamas. They attacked Israel unprovoked, murdered their civilians and then refused to surrender for 2+ years when they could have stopped the war at any point.

That means that anything that happens during the war is also 100% the fault of Hamas. They purposely hide among civilians because they know people like you will fall for the "genocide" lie. Anytime you assign any portion of the blame to the country that was attacked you are, by default, defending Hamas. Hope that helps.

Queso1 said:

---

Am I not allowed to say a state actor is committing genocide? Can I not say that there was genocide in Rwanda? Are only certain states able to commit genocide?

---

When it actually fits the definition, sure. When you fit the definition to fit any action that a specific state does, it brings up what is so special about that specific state that you find so objectionable.

Queso1 said:

---

I do not defend Hamas. They are a terrorist organization. Their attack on Israeli civilians was abhorrent. I'm not sure why this is even an issue. I do not recognize Palestine as a sovereign nation.

---

Ok. But this is the war Hamas is very purposely forcing them to fight. So how is the "genocide" on isreal?

Is isreal just supposed to sit back and let Hamas cross the border and come slaughter a few thousand of them in perpetuity?

And like 80% of Palestine support Hamas, even post 10/7. So essentially the entirety of Palestine is a terrorist organization. Which also means the majority of Palestine saw Hamas slaughtering innocent civilians on 10/7 and said yeah I support that, but you want us to muster sympathy for these people. Yeah….no thanks. Suicidal empathy.

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

Not your kind of "youth movement", no.

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

---

You don't agree we should stop doing foreign war for a foreign nation and stop endless immigration? OK.

This is the debate currently being had in the public square. It's America First vs. whatever the GOP has been doing for the last 50 years

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

---

You don't agree we should stop doing foreign war for a foreign nation and stop endless immigration? OK.

This is the debate currently being had in the public square. It's America First vs. whatever the GOP has been doing for the last 50 years

---

I agree with controlling immigration and I agree we need to prioritize our foreign engagements.

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

---

You don't agree we should stop doing foreign war for a foreign nation and stop endless immigration? OK.

This is the debate currently being had in the public square. It's America First vs. whatever the GOP has been doing for the last 50 years

---

These are all legitimate debates and should be had inside the GOP.

What's not legit, and what I'll throw down over, is anything that implies another race or ethnicity is less than or problematic.

I don't think that has any place in conservatism.

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

Well said. I agree a wrong intent doesn't inherently make it a bad decision strategically. But we have the benefit of 23 years in the ME to look back on those strategies. I'd challenge anyone to show a net benefit to the US. Is it the patriot act? Trillions in debt? 100 thousand servicemen dead by suicide? US weapons in the hands of the taliban? Million dead Iraqis? 1000s upon 1000s of Muslims refugees?

At a certain point I think an Intellectually honest person has to ask the question who has benefited from our ME involvement for over two decades? It certainly hasn't been the Untied States! And who keeps pushing for further Me involvement? Coincidentally it's both Israel and AIPAC politicians.

I mean we have servicemen dying in Syria for over a decade. What are we doing there?!?!

---

You nailed the failures -- they have been catastrophic.

But i think letting Israel act is actually the antidote to even more eventual US involvement. Even with our fcurrent aid, its their pilots and soldiers on the line at the end of the day, not ours. If they degrade the threat now, the DC establishment can't come in and claim we need to send troops later.

Also, history shows we will tell them what to do, not the other way around, (even at times to their detriment)

Gulf War: We forced them to sit back and take Scud missiles, without firing back, just to keep our coalition happy.

Yom Kippur War: The US warned Israel not to strike first, so they waited, got attacked, and took massive losses.

Id prefer to let them handle their business so we don't have to later.

Anyhow, i appreciate the debate. I think we (mostly) agree on the diagnosis, however we disagree on how to fix it. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Quote:

---

I don't think that has any place in conservatism.

---

If it becomes permissable, i believe the left will win a bunch of elections, to put it lightly.

Agreed. Excellent highlights. I'm all for them exercising their sovereignty how they see fit.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well! Been a good discussion!

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

---

You don't agree we should stop doing foreign war for a foreign nation and stop endless immigration? OK.

This is the debate currently being had in the public square. It's America First vs. whatever the GOP has been doing for the last 50 years

---

These are all legitimate debates and should be had inside the GOP.

What's not legit, and what I'll throw down over, is anything that implies another race or ethnicity is less than or problematic.

I don't think that has any place in conservatism.

---

I would encourage you to investigate the foreign lobbies which finance our politicians. Some are problematic and saying so is the only way to solve the problem.

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Keyno said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

itsyourboypookie said:

---

The Jews odd history being discussed in the public square.

The old guard doesn't seem to like that

---

For clarity, this post right here is an example of Anti-Semitic talk.

---

For clarity, this right here is an example of bizarre speech gatekeeping. This is what the youth is sick of. This is why there is a "civil war" in the conservative movement

---

Every political movement should have boundaries, and if conservatism lets itself define a group of people by some sort of vague negative generality and not by the character of an individual… Then that is no longer a conservative movement.

And so yes, this is a Civil War… And people that subscribe to antisemitic talk should be purged from the movement.

---

OK cool, but the post you responded to was not antisemitic. You threw that charge out there because you didn't like the speech. Free speech is a core tenant of the conservative movement. We had 4 years of cancel culture and censorship with Biden. No more

---

Anyone referring to "odd history" of the Jews is saying antisemitic talk.

Full stop.

---

If you say so. I'm telling you that the youth does not care about any of that. That's why there is a huge rift in the conservative movement.

---

Ok, let me try a hypothetical:

Let's say there's a portion of the conservative movement who encourages the use of a "hard R," accuses black people of people sub human, and slavery was good…but also we need to overturn Obergefell.

Would you say we should allow those people to be a part of the conservative movement?

---

I will answer your hypothetical with another

Let's say there is a huge amount of the conservative youth who are tired of endless foreign war for a foreign nation and also tired of endless immigration. They don't care about being called antisemitic or racist. Can they be in the movement?

---

I'll take a stab, but hope you can answer mine.

I absolutely think those are legitimate political debates.

Do I agree with them? No.

Should they be argued? Sure.

---

You don't agree we should stop doing foreign war for a foreign nation and stop endless immigration? OK.

This is the debate currently being had in the public square. It's America First vs. whatever the GOP has been doing for the last 50 years

---

These are all legitimate debates and should be had inside the GOP.

What's not legit, and what I'll throw down over, is anything that implies another race or ethnicity is less than or problematic.

I don't think that has any place in conservatism.

---

I would encourage you to investigate the foreign lobbies which finance our politicians. Some are problematic and saying so is the only way to solve the problem.

---

I agree, foreign money coming into the US is challenging.

But if we go by that metric, Israel isn't even in the top 20.