London Police Begins Crackdown on… Freemasons?

9,241 Views | 147 Replies | Last: 33 min ago by AJ02
YouBet
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TrumpsBarber said:

YouBet said:

I've never met a Freemason that I was aware of (as far as y'all know), but I have to assume with the number of examples on here crossing over into Christianity that whatever heretical practices that the Masons purported to follow have largely been diluted and defanged over the years.

I bet 90% of them couldn't even tell you what their secrets are.

The secrets of Freemasonry are not heretical or offensive to Christianity. They bind us as a fraternity and help us to make good men better, which is our primary goal. It is not possible to learn the secrets without becoming a Mason. There are subtle differences in ceremony between the lodges in different States and countries. There has been no fundamental change since George Washington became a Mason.


Ok. I don't know dick about it. My only point is that anything that might be deemed heretical has likely been diluted over the years and or ignored at this point as basically filler ceremonial stuff. I doubt anyone in your order takes it seriously whatever "thing" Christians may think is heretical.
TrumpsBarber
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No offense, I just don't understand what you mean by saying "taking it seriously". All of the work, even the esoteric work, is taken seriously by Masons or there would be no point. Being ordinary human beings, there will be some who fall by the wayside, just as it so happens with religions or any organization. If I were to ever find something in Masonry that conflicts with my Christian beliefs, then I would leave.
BrazosDog02
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Captain Pablo said:

BrazosDog02 said:

MJ20/20 said:

Don't know if President Trump is a mason, but he is / has been a student of the Kabbalah and that doctrine has many parrallels with freemasonry.


He is not so far as I can tell. No reason to suppress that info and it would be pretty tough to do that. However, Biden was conferred a Master Mason. While that was kinda suspect to me given the requirements, it seems to be legit, nonetheless.


Wasn't Biden's deal some sort of honorary deal the day before he left office? In recognition of his service?

Like "keys to the city"

Biden didn't even know what planet he was on, much less what the hell Master Mason means


I tried to do a deep dive on it because it bugged me that he could just walk in and get it, especially being his age and condition. All I really found was some deep discussion on some forums about it and if I recall correctly it stood up by way of "the lodge conferred it so it's good" kind of thing. None the less if I met him in public and tested him I doubt he'd pass. Either way, it's not like I'd sit down and discuss the inner workings of Masonry with him anyhow so it's kind of a moot point.
TrumpsBarber
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Here is a list of some famous Masons. I said before there were 14 American Presidents. I am pretty sure that neither Donald Trump nor Joe Biden are Masons. List of Famous Freemasons p.s. No. 10 is supposed to be President Andrew Jackson, not the Hollywood technician no one ever heard of.
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TrumpsBarber said:

No offense, I just don't understand what you mean by saying "taking it seriously". All of the work, even the esoteric work, is taken seriously by Masons or there would be no point. Being ordinary human beings, there will be some who fall by the wayside, just as it so happens with religions or any organization. It is possible that nothing I have written is helpful.


I'm just applying present day, normal human behavior to it. The power and adherence to this kind of stuff usually fades over time. Happens with most things like this. The discipline to maintain rites and structure deteriorates. If there are actual "heretical" things y'all are doing, I'm quite sure the vast majority of your membership actually don't believe in those heretical things or really care about it and go through the motions even if they really exist.

Obviously, I could be completely and utterly wrong when it comes to the Masons since I know nothing about them other than fun conspiracy crap in movies and video games.
ABATTBQ11
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Burdizzo said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

They're not necessarily singled out. What the Met is requiring is for officers to declare if they're a part of any, "hierarchical organisation that requires members to support and protect each other," which the Freemasons fit.




Quote:


Plenty of Brits believe, but have never shown, that Freemason relationships extend beyond the lodge and unduly influence promotions and investigations. There may be some truth to that, but it may just be a case of cultural corruption and coincidental membership by many cops


I'm sorry. What?


The Met is requiring officers to disclose membership in organizations that have a hierarchy and ask members to support and protect each other. The Freemasons fit that somewhat loose definition.

Many Brits believe that lodge members show a level of favoritism to each other that reaches corruption and that the secretive nature of Freemasonry and lodges is used for corrupt networking activities. The general belief about Freemasonry is not necessarily that they are secretly running things like the Stonecutters, but that membership in Masonic lodges is an outside conduit for corruption and networking, though this is exceedingly difficult to prove because of the fact you have to rely on the watchers to watch themselves and the secret nature of Freemasonry itself. Also, it's important to remember that the lodges there may be very different than the lodges here, much like how international business units of the same parent company may have vastly different corporate cultures and practices as influenced by the local culture.

A lot of it centers around Jonathan Rees, who is a Freemason and the prime suspect in the Daniel Morgan murder mentioned previously. 10 of the officers in the Morgan murder investigation were Freemasons asking with Rees, and some of them would meet frequently with him during the investigation. One of these investigators would eventually become a business partner or Rees in their PI firm.

Rees has long been suspected of using his ties within Masonic lodges to build a network of corrupt cops that have helped him to illegally obtain private information from case files, back records, and illegal wiretaps. He was actually convicted in 2000 and served time in prison for this. The role of his Freemasonry in his dealings is somewhat circumstantial, but there is apparently some pretty strong correlation and overlap. Now, whether the corruption of the cops involved is a result of Freemasonry or they used membership in Freemason lodges as a networking tool is up for debate.

Regardless, the Met has long had a lot of issues with corruption. There was a huge phone hacking/wiretapping scandal that stretched from the 90's to the 2010's (and is probably still an issue). British tabloid media is big business there, and cops with access to personal private data are a big source of information. The issue has been investigated and revisited multiple times, with plenty of fanfare and arrests. However, British police, prosecutors, and courts have seemingly approached it like a time bomb and often taken only somewhat token action. In some cases, investigatory scopes have been suspiciously limited, victims have not been notified, prosecutions have not been pursued, court records of evidence presented have been surreptitiously sealed and labeled not in the public interest, etc. Basically, they either don't want to know the extent of the rot within their justice institutions, or they already know because they're a part of it. Neither are good. The whole thing is kind of fascinating, and it would take a book to really explain the full scope and impact.
techno-ag
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YouBet said:

I've never met a Freemason that I was aware of
They don't hide it. Look for a G topped by a compass symbol as a bumper sticker or somewhere on their person. They'll happily talk about it.

Quote:

bet 90% of them couldn't even tell you what their secrets are.
Couldn't or wouldn't?
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
AJ02
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TrumpsBarber said:

YouBet said:

I've never met a Freemason that I was aware of (as far as y'all know), but I have to assume with the number of examples on here crossing over into Christianity that whatever heretical practices that the Masons purported to follow have largely been diluted and defanged over the years.

I bet 90% of them couldn't even tell you what their secrets are.

The secrets of Freemasonry are not heretical or offensive to Christianity. They bind us as a fraternity and help us to make good men better, which is our primary goal. It is not possible to learn the secrets without becoming a Mason. There are subtle differences in ceremony between the lodges in different States and countries. There has been no fundamental change since George Washington became a Mason.


So if you can't learn the secrets until after you join, how do you know you agree with the secrets so you can make an informed decision whether to join? Kinda like "we have to pass the bill so we can see what's in it."
 
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