Basically where my head is at with these three right now. It's a great problem to have. Really bizarre to think that the GOP bench from a good to great presidential standpoint is as deep as it's ever been. Any of these three men would make great presidents. All of them much better than Trump because of their discipline. The Dems really have nobody, but the GOP could just as easily lose to the Dems. And part of the reason is because none of these guys are Trump.

The electoral mix is just so bizarre and so razor thin at this point. It's truly one of the most fascinating decades in presidential politics in our history.


On another note from earlier commentary in the thread. Anyone that thinks Thiels involvement with Vance has much to do with the perceived benefits to his tech ventures, does not really know anything about Peter Thiel. The philosophical underpinnings of Thiel's entire career and his influence on the political philosophies of other tech billionaires goes way deeper than some belief in protecting their ventures. Certainly could be said about some of the tech billionaires, but Thiel's political philosophy has very deep roots in things much older than Silicon Valley and much more in-tuned with the ideas and philosophies the founding fathers were contemplating and debating during the enlightenment.

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

You're a little over your head here, Karl.

policywonk98 said:

---

Basically where my head is at with these three right now. It's a great problem to have. Really bizarre to think that the GOP bench from a good to great presidential standpoint is as deep as it's ever been. Any of these three men would make great presidents. All of them much better than Trump because of their discipline. The Dems really have nobody, but the GOP could just as easily lose to the Dems. And part of the reason is because none of these guys are Trump.

The electoral mix is just so bizarre and so razor thin at this point. It's truly one of the most fascinating decades in presidential politics in our history.


On another note from earlier commentary in the thread. Anyone that thinks Thiels involvement with Vance has much to do with the perceived benefits to his tech ventures, does not really know anything about Peter Thiel. The philosophical underpinnings of Thiel's entire career and his influence on the political philosophies of other tech billionaires goes way deeper than some belief in protecting their ventures. Certainly could be said about some of the tech billionaires, but Thiel's political philosophy has very deep roots in things much older than Silicon Valley and much more in-tuned with the ideas and philosophies the founding fathers were contemplating and debating during the enlightenment.

---

Only way the GOP loses is if it shoots itself in the foot, especially if the Trump supporters decide to stay home. They are quite capable of that. Lots of Trump voters are already throwing a fit that he hasn't accomplished everything he promised already and can't wait to give up. Hopefully they grow up and realize that the warmth of collectivism that the Dems will mean for them.

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Tulsi Gabbard says hold my beer. She supported Bernie back when he ran against Hillary.

People can and do change.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Yeah I am done with the "we have to vote GOP because what if the democrats win"?! The GOP has betrayed me (and probably you) so many times that its just not worth it anymore.

In 2016, Trump's rhetoric was "build a wall, deport everyone, lock her up, end corruption, tariffs, Iraq was a mistake, no new wars, nationalism not globalism will be our credo, etc". Vance was a "Never Trump" guy during this time.

I am Never Vance.

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

The GOP bench is deep in 28 for President. DeSantis was my vote in the 24' primary (if he stuck around long enough to make it to Super Tuesday). He will be the best candidate again. I think the best option will be a Republican outside of the Trump admin. DeSantis has similar polices to Trump without the insanity maturity of a 10 year old. He's a America First and real conservative. Rubio would be my #2, Vance # 3. Can't go wrong with any compared to the Dem field.

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Yeah I am done with the "we have to vote GOP because what if the democrats win"?! The GOP has betrayed me (and probably you) so many times that its just not worth it anymore.

In 2016, Trump's rhetoric was "build a wall, deport everyone, lock her up, end corruption, tariffs, Iraq was a mistake, no new wars, nationalism not globalism will be our credo, etc". Vance was a "Never Trump" guy during this time.

I am Never Vance.

---

That seems like a lot of emotional baggage due to his rejection of Trump. Hell, I still reject Trump occasionally because he's an absolute jerk at times. But I still voted for him three times and would again today if it was him vs. a Dem.

I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Trump even though I don't always like him because the alternative is much worse. Sitting out the election over feelings and letting the marxists take over is out-of-this-world dumb.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Yeah I am done with the "we have to vote GOP because what if the democrats win"?! The GOP has betrayed me (and probably you) so many times that its just not worth it anymore.

In 2016, Trump's rhetoric was "build a wall, deport everyone, lock her up, end corruption, tariffs, Iraq was a mistake, no new wars, nationalism not globalism will be our credo, etc". Vance was a "Never Trump" guy during this time.

I am Never Vance.

---

That seems like a lot of emotional baggage due to his rejection of Trump. Hell, I still reject Trump occasionally because he's an absolute jerk at times. But I still voted for him three times and would again today if it was him vs. a Dem.

I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Trump even though I don't always like him because the alternative is much worse. Sitting out the election over feelings and letting the marxists take over is out-of-this-world dumb.

---

It's not "emotional baggage". It's a statement of fact that when Trump was doing America First rhetoric, Vance hated him. Vance hated what I liked. Why would I support him?

I'm cool with staying home instead of voting Vance

You staying home is a great idea.

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

What is your evidence for all of this? You are acting like your his personal biographer.

I know Charlie was very instrumental in picking Vance. I trust his opinion a million times more then random guy on Texags who pretends to know things he couldn't possibly actually know.

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

And Trump was once a Democrat.

Still is on some days, lol, but he was clearly the best option given the alternate choice of Kamala.... by a longshot.

I don't care about their history. What are you doing for me today?

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Yeah I am done with the "we have to vote GOP because what if the democrats win"?! The GOP has betrayed me (and probably you) so many times that its just not worth it anymore.

In 2016, Trump's rhetoric was "build a wall, deport everyone, lock her up, end corruption, tariffs, Iraq was a mistake, no new wars, nationalism not globalism will be our credo, etc". Vance was a "Never Trump" guy during this time.

I am Never Vance.

---

That seems like a lot of emotional baggage due to his rejection of Trump. Hell, I still reject Trump occasionally because he's an absolute jerk at times. But I still voted for him three times and would again today if it was him vs. a Dem.

I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Trump even though I don't always like him because the alternative is much worse. Sitting out the election over feelings and letting the marxists take over is out-of-this-world dumb.

---

It's not "emotional baggage". It's a statement of fact that when Trump was doing America First rhetoric, Vance hated him. Vance hated what I liked. Why would I support him?

I'm cool with staying home instead of voting Vance

---

I guess we just look at the world thru different lenses. Trump has opposed things I like and supported things that I don't, but on balance we're on the same page probably 75% of the time. Good enough. Made my peace with it and rolling with him on the big votes that matter. Same thing with Vance, Rubio, and DeSantis.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

---

This thread is about Vance but I'll reply. All of these candidates are the return to the GOP status quo. They are Mitt Romney/George Bush/Paul Ryan/John McCain. We were all sick of this in 2016 (for good reason), which is why we went for Trump.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

---

It's wild how you're acting like Trumpism never happened, like the insurgent moment that shook the GOP and energized the base never existed. Trump once upon a time challenged the whole establishment Republican and Democrat alike spoke for the forgotten men and women of America, opposed endless foreign wars, and rejected corporate and political cronyism, calling out figures like Rubio for serving donors over the people. Millions rallied behind him because he actually stood against the system that had ignored them for decades. And now you're getting lulled back to sleep, treating Rubio, Vance, and DeSantis all neocon/establishment operatives as if they'll deliver the populist base agenda.

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

---

This thread is about Vance but I'll reply. All of these candidates are the return to the GOP status quo. They are Mitt Romney/George Bush/Paul Ryan/John McCain. We were all sick of this in 2016 (for good reason), which is why we went for Trump.

---

DeSantis, Rubio, and Vance are not the same thing as Romney and McCain. Trump is not as conservative as those guys. He's a big spender and loves to pick winners and losers in business instead of letting free markets work. On some days, he looks more like a Democrat than a Republican. Truth. That said, he's still our guy and we roll with him because he won the party's nomination.

We'll see who wins the next one. They'll have my vote. I've named three candidates... who's on your list that can practically win the nomination?

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

---

It's wild how you're acting like Trumpism never happened, like the insurgent moment that shook the GOP and energized the base never existed. Trump once upon a time challenged the whole establishment Republican and Democrat alike spoke for the forgotten men and women of America, opposed endless foreign wars, and rejected corporate and political cronyism, calling out figures like Rubio for serving donors over the people. Millions rallied behind him because he actually stood against the system that had ignored them for decades. And now you're getting lulled back to sleep, treating Rubio, Vance, and DeSantis all neocon/establishment operatives as if they'll deliver the populist base agenda.

---

Trump is a unique politician. When he moves on, his legacy moves on. He did a lot of good, and he acted like a bonehead some of the time too. I both appreciate his leadership and also won't miss his childish theatrics.

This conversation is about who comes next after him. Who is your candidate?

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

Vance was a "Never Trump" guy for all of Trump's first term (back when Trump's rhetoric and policies were actually America First). I am Never Vance.

---

Gotta roll with what we got!

---

Why?

---

What is the practical alternative that can actually be implemented?

Please spell it out for me because I'm not interested in moral objections that don't result in anything.
quat.

---

We've accepted the 'lesser of two evils' from the GOP establishment over and over and over and what has it gotten us? More betrayals, broken promises, and zero accountability. Voters have forgotten that their vote is leverage, that they have a duty as Americans to demand results, and that politicians only perform when pressured. The practical solution isn't fear-voting; it's using that leverage: withhold automatic support, back candidates who actually deliver conservative principles or populist reforms, push for primaries, state-level reforms, and local accountability measures. Do that consistently, and suddenly politicians have to perform. That's how you force real change instead of reinforcing the same broken status quo.

---

I'm still confused on what this has to do with Rubio, Vance, DeSantis. Those are the top contenders after Trump retires. All of them look good to me. None is perfect. I'm not, nor are you. Perfection isn't the standard. "Who can get elected and advance a conservative agenda" should be the standard, even if it's not implemented 100% perfectly to my or your taste. Will you take 80% of what you want now and come back for the other 20%, or do you take all your marbles and go home because you can't get 100% of what you want now?

---

This thread is about Vance but I'll reply. All of these candidates are the return to the GOP status quo. They are Mitt Romney/George Bush/Paul Ryan/John McCain. We were all sick of this in 2016 (for good reason), which is why we went for Trump.

---

DeSantis, Rubio, and Vance are not the same thing as Romney and McCain. Trump is not as conservative as those guys. He's a big spender and loves to pick winners and losers in business instead of letting free markets work. On some days, he looks more like a Democrat than a Republican. Truth. That said, he's still our guy and we roll with him because he won the party's nomination.

We'll see who wins the next one. They'll have my vote. I've named three candidates... who's on your list that can practically win the nomination?

---

OK so you have betrayed yourself as a basic GOP partisan. That's fine and it clarifies your position.

The GOP doesn't have anyone I would vote for besides Massie. But I'd honestly prefer the GOP to collapse and something more right wing to fill the vacuum.

Keyno said:

---

The GOP doesn't have anyone I would vote for besides Massie. But I'd honestly prefer the GOP to collapse and something more right wing to fill the vacuum.

---

Good luck with that. I prefer further right also but have learned to live in the world of what's practical. That doesn't mean you sacrifice anything. Advocate for the best you can get but also be realistic when the votes are counted. That's real life man. Do you think hiding out as a hermit is going to force the rest of the world to come around to you? Because it ain't happening, as much as you and I might want it to.

I'll gladly take 80% of what I want today and come back for the other 20% later.

What makes you think DeSantis is like Romney/McCain? He's one of the most conservative politicians in America that has succesfully implemented a bunch of conservative policy in Florida and turned the state from purple to solid red.

This thread is a classic illustration of why the R party can not rule like the Dems.

We have purists who will not work with others in the party to negotiate, compromise, and align on the big votes. They will instead stomp their feet, pout, and withdraw from participation because they only get part of what they want instead of all of it.

Meanwhile, the Dems are like ants, always moving forward and grabbing incremental ground wherever they can -- even if individual members disagree on specifics -- until you wake up one day and they've taken over the world.

And the R's are dazed and wondering what in the hell happened.

When did DeSantis become a neocon establishment type?

His record as governor was incredibly conservative.

Ag1188 said:

---

It's beyond wild JD Vance attacks our democracy allies and props up dictatorships. God knows if Venezuela had offered a bribe to Trump/Vance, then Maduro would still be in power. And if Trump gets a bribe from Iran, then he won't do military action to them as they murder their protesters.

---

a lot of "ifs" in reddit expert talking point fantasies

Ag1188 said:

---

JD Vance has like a -13% Approval rating nationally. That's terrible. Also, JD Vance just loves commie dictator Putin, communist Russia, and the far-right borderline authoritarian government in Hungary and the admittedly far-right government of Slovakia. Judge people by who their friends are in cases of leadership.

---

Oh boy. Its February of 2026 and JD is already literally Hitler.

You guys are nothing if not predictable.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

The GOP doesn't have anyone I would vote for besides Massie. But I'd honestly prefer the GOP to collapse and something more right wing to fill the vacuum.

---

Good luck with that. I prefer further right also but have learned to live in the world of what's practical. That doesn't mean you sacrifice anything. Advocate for the best you can get but also be realistic when the votes are counted. That's real life man. Do you think hiding out as a hermit is going to force the rest of the world to come around to you? Because it ain't happening, as much as you and I might want it to.

I'll gladly take 80% of what I want today and come back for the other 20% later.

---

Yeah the "what are you, a hermit?" rhetoric does not work anymore. The last 30 years have shown that the democrats are the enemy and the GOP is the traitor. If given the choice of who to vote for, I choose neither. If given the choice of who deserves to collapse, I choose the traitor every time.

This whole 80/20 dialectic you are trying to set up just doesn't work. The GOP I guess gives you a better tax break? but that is about it. It's called a uniparty for a reason.

MelvinUdall said:

---

Fair. At this point, I prefer Rubio over Vance, but I am good with either one.

---

Hope we get both on a ticket.

The GOP pushing back on net zero insanity is saving this country right now. They are also a million times better on immigration, largely thanks to Trump, because they use to suck at that too. Take a good look at Europe if you want to know how bad things could really get.

I agree the GOP can be disappointing, but the DNC is actively trying to destroy anything and everything that once made this country amazing.

Silent For Too Long said:

---

The GOP pushing back on net zero insanity is saving this country right now. They are also a million times better on immigration, largely thanks to Trump, because they use to suck at that too. Take a good look at Europe if you want to know how bad things could really get.

I agree the GOP can be disappointing, but the DNC is actively trying to destroy anything and everything that once made this country amazing.

---

The GOP is not "pushing back" on anything related to immigration. Trump didn't build a wall (like he campaigned on doing). So whenever a Democrat gets back in, it opens back up. Trump is deporting like the same number of people as Obama did. Not deporting is the same thing as amnesty.

Yeah I agree the DNC is the enemy. I literally just said that in the post you are responding to. But the GOP is the traitor and the traitor is always worse

If you include illegal immigrants who left voluntarily, Trump had as many in one year as Obama had in 8.

He also almost completely shut down illegal crossings. Without a wall.

Silent For Too Long said:

---

If you include illegal immigrants who left voluntarily, Trump had as many in one year as Obama had in 8.

He also almost completely shut down illegal crossings. Without a wall.

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Yeah dude if you include an imaginary number based on nothing, you are right.

Back on topic- Vance is not going to do anything about this. He works for Theil and "little tech" (just like Trump now) and they need the cheap labor

What are you talking about?

It's widely accepted by everyone almost 2.5 million people have voluntarily left.

There is nothing imaginary about it.