Massie is worse than John McCain

14,550 Views | 253 Replies | Last: 40 min ago by murphyag
flown-the-coop
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AG
There is good reason the Ls have never gained a toe hold.

It's simply NOT was a substantial portion of Americans want.

Hell, I think socialism is likely more popular than libertarianism these days.
FobTies
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The left convinces dem voters that voting L ensures the evil right will gain power. The right convinces GOP voters that voting L ensures the evil left will gain power. Both sides fall in line every time there is any 3rd option. Maybe one day a solid L candidate will break past that, but unlikey considering how ignorant the electorate is.
flown-the-coop
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There it is. The veiled innuendo that somehow being libertarian means "enlightened".

If only more people would think independently, if only they see the light, then one day the golden age of libertarianism shall be fulfilled!

Or it could be thats those ideals are NOT where a significant number of voting Americans is at.

Also, we did elect a 3rd party candidate in the last 3 elections. His name is Donald J Trump.
bobbranco
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Leave the furries (libertarians) alone!
Im Gipper
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I'm Gipper
flown-the-coop
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President of Rand Paul's Fan Club.
txags92
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FobTies said:

The left convinces dem voters that voting L ensures the evil right will gain power. The right convinces GOP voters that voting L ensures the evil left will gain power. Both sides fall in line every time there is any 3rd option. Maybe one day a solid L candidate will break past that, but unlikey considering how ignorant the electorate is.

The problem the Ls have is that voting for their candidates in a national election or even statewide elections requires a giant leap of faith to believe they can win. You have to take a candidate who typically has not won any other major election victory and who has little name recognition outside of the libertarian world and believe that voting for them has a realistic chance of resulting in them actually being elected. The price of being wrong on that leap of faith is getting a democrat elected instead in a race that should be easily won by a R. Most R voters, even those with strong libertarian tendencies, are unwilling to take that chance on a leap of faith. The stakes are simply too high these days with the hard leftward tilt to the democratic alternative.

To produce viable candidates who can inspire that leap of faith, the libertarians should be working really hard to get serious candidates with real world ideas and policy positions elected at the local level. Build recognition of them as serious people with real world solutions to problems and let them build a track record of good governance. THEN you can start running them at the state level and have some hope for success. When you win some statewide races and build a track record of successfully running a state on libertarian principles, THEN you can hope to have that same success running in a federal election. Until you can do that, it is a bridge too far to ask people to take that leap of faith on unproven and largely unknown candidates who too often make their name as bomb throwers whose biggest platform policy is legalizing all drugs.

The problem with running somebody like Rand or Massie as a republican and then trying to vote and legislate on very strict libertarian grounds is that they ran for office as a republican. They put themselves on team R and asked for people's votes on that basis. So when they have a disagreement with team R, people expect them to work out that disagreement within the team and find a way to advocate for their L positions when the opportunities arise to do so WITHOUT HURTING TEAM R IN THE PROCESS. Instead, all too often, Massie throws a big fit and goes to cozy up with his democrat buddies to accomplish things that are objectively not always aligned with team R...the team under whose banner he voluntarily ran for office.

In trying to run for office as an R and then legislate as an L, he is trying to serve two masters. And when his L leanings (and emotional tantrums) lead him to side with the Ds against team R, it is reasonable for people who voted for him as a member of team R to feel like he is acting like a McCain in order to please a different audience.
We fixed the keg
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AG
I am convinced there is not even an argument here. The chances of today's democrat entertaining a true, libertarian candidate is in the very low single digits. Even the most socially liberal libertarian isn't going to be a hard pass for a dem when it comes to entitlements/spending/small government. The fallout from suggesting cuts to any social program is all the evidence you need.

On the other hand there a quite a few republicans who align with the fiscally conservative and smaller government aspects of the platform (see the tea party). That number is much higher depending if the candidate doesn't stray to far into liberal social issues and isolationism with regards to national defense.

Unfortunately where we are today, conservatives like myself will hold my nose and support the republican that aligns with me on 30-90% on policy over today's progressive democrat that can't even approach 10% alignment. Even examples like Bill Maher and Fetterman that get red-pilled here and there still vote in lock step with dems 90% of the time.
murphyag
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93MarineHorn said:

Honest questions and I hope one of you can explain it to me: There are plenty of living victims of Epstein and his "pedo" pals, right? Why can't they start naming names? You know, ACCUSE somebody of wrongdoing and then we can have a real investigation instead guilt by association and innuendo.

My guess is that they are scared of getting killed like what happened with that blonde girl named Virginia who write the book. No way she committed suicude. She has told all of her family and friends and even publicly said we would never commit suicide and if she ended up dead that meant someone killed her.
 
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