Ellis Wyatt said:

---

LMCane said:

---

last night at the SOTU it was idiot Massie with his BFF Ro Khanna on the Plenum Floor hugging each other.

the most left wing democrat in the Congress.

---

Massie is no different than Dade Phelan, Dustin Burrows, or Brad Buckley. His only principle is obstruction of conservatives. This is an easy excuse for him to hide behind.

---

This is completely inaccurate because Massie opposes bills because they aren't conservative enough or they impact liberty. You know exactly what you are getting with Massie for good or bad in terms of issues. Phelan and Burrows are just old school corrupt and pretend to be conservatives while they refuse to bring conservative legislation to a vote and dole out money to their cronies.

Hate on Massie if you want but at least do it accurately. You can definitely say he isn't a big Trump guy or that he isn't a team player. You can say you disagree with his libertarian positions. He isn't corrupt though.

LMCane said:

---

last night at the SOTU it was idiot Massie with his BFF Ro Khanna on the Plenum Floor hugging each other.

the most left wing democrat in the Congress.

---

Ro Khanna isn't remotely the most left wing Dem in Congress, he's probably one of the most conservative (though that's a really low bar) and he will at least have honest debates on issues from a liberal perspective. He's generally pro business and is a Silicon Valley guy. He and Massie have a good working relationship because they have similar views on some liberty issues and they both want the Epstein files fully released.

He didn't sit with him either, he just basically said hello to a friend who happens to be a Democrat.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely pointless. He's an obstructionist. America will be much worse for his arrogance.

He's helping marxists. That's not principled at all.

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely consistent with last GOP campaign season. He's a consistent conservative. America will be much better with more like him.

He's helping limited gov conservatives, in spite of the backlash from RINO's. That's principled.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy that if you want a team first type of politician, then Massie obviously wouldn't be your guy. But I understand your point of view from that perspective and respect it, though question whether conservativism is the best label for what you are advocating for.

To say he's an obstructionist and not principled is about as far from the truth of his intentions as could be and makes your argument weak.

Had you acknowledged that team over policy is the goal for the time period, then yes I would agree he's clearly being an obstructionist in that regard. And I absolutely agree that not letting Marxists take control of our gov would be a very high priority but not at the expense of conservativism. Sounds like we agree on the end goal for the most part, but differ on how to get there! That's what politics should be like if the D's would quit being so anti-American.

Danimal said:

---

What a ridiculous statement OP. "Look at what the other side thinks of Massie and the Epstein issue! That means he can't be right! Because it's the other side! Screw Massie!"

This is the logic of a child.

---

The average human doesn't process information through a true/false filter but through an us/them filter

— Michael Malice (@michaelmalice) December 23, 2023

Tea Party said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely pointless. He's an obstructionist. America will be much worse for his arrogance.

He's helping marxists. That's not principled at all.

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely consistent with last GOP campaign season. He's a consistent conservative. America will be much better with more like him.

---

When conservative votes don't count, like they didn't in Fulton County, he can be as "principled" as he wants. He clearly doesn't actually want what he claims to want.

hph6203 said:

---

Danimal said:

---

What a ridiculous statement OP. "Look at what the other side thinks of Massie and the Epstein issue! That means he can't be right! Because it's the other side! Screw Massie!"

This is the logic of a child.

---

The average human doesn't process information through a true/false filter but through an us/them filter

— Michael Malice (@michaelmalice) December 23, 2023

---

I hate to break to folks, but human beings are animals and us / them is sort of how you survive.

We may have done some evolving but when you get down to the basics people will tribe up to survive. Go back to the old nomad days. The more committed to the tribe the higher the risk of violence gets.

Now, people should recognize that a group committed to their tribe so hard they cheered on the burning of cities, wanted to extinguish people over a vaccine, ruined your life if you uttered certain words, and would take your kids if you did not agree to cut off their genitals.

Those on the left need to recognize and back off their extremism. Now.

Tea Party said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely pointless. He's an obstructionist. America will be much worse for his arrogance.

He's helping marxists. That's not principled at all.

---

His stance on the Epstein stuff is completely consistent with last GOP campaign season. He's a consistent conservative. America will be much better with more like him.

He's helping limited gov conservatives, in spite of the backlash from RINO's. That's principled.

---

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. His small government rhetoric has you fooled.

Elaborate.

I can support his stance on the files...do not in anyway see his stance on these strikes as anything but tds. dude has been infected by it

Agree. I've been pretty supportive of Massie here. On Iran he's handling it wrong IMO.

His stance on Epstein was also TDS. He didn't say **** while Biden's handlers ran the country. He's a little ***** who would rather kick and scream than help Americans.

that can be true too

Levin was on Hannity a bit ago and was fired up about Massie. Called him an ultra libertarian said "I dont give a damn about Tom Massie. He will be a footnote to a footnote to a footnote and…". Had one of his stroke moments where the left eye twitches out of spec.

Time will tell, but Massie is giving off some Jim Garrison vibes.

I'm not understanding the reference. what do you mean?

AgBQ-00 said:

---

I'm not understanding the reference. what do you mean?

---

Garrison brought charges/prosecuted Clay Shaw for the JFK assassination.

By early accounts of his life, a guy that loved his country/JFK, but ended up leading a failed crusade that wrecked his, and others, reputations/lives in the process.

ETA: I am not drawing the comparison to suggest Massie is wrong to believe there is wrong doing that needs to be brought to light. I am drawing the parallel to suggest Garrison took a similar path and ended up a victim of his own zeal.....in an 'ends justify all means' approach. Time will tell.

thanks for the explanation

AgBQ-00 said:

---

thanks for the explanation

---

Realized I only gave you part of the answer to your question. Just like I believe our government has covered up JFK evidence, they are hiding what the truth is about JE. I don't believe this is just about elites having sex with minors. JE doesn't get JE wealth and power from being P Diddy / R Kelly. That is one spoke in a much bigger wheel.

But like Garrison, Massie might be his own worst enemy in getting to the truth.

yeah I agree...this is something that is much bigger than an island and the horrendous actions of a select few. this feels like it is systemic in a lot of areas

japantiger said:

---

FobTies said:

---

Massie and Rand are the best politicians in DC.

The fact that both sides have brainwashed their herds against them, just reinforces it.

As soon as Trump bashes someone, the cult follows suit.

---

If by "best" you mean two guys that have been completely ineffective at accomplishing anything, then sure. They're both a waste of oxygen

---

I cant think of anyone more effective at fighting back and exposing the gross injustice from Fauci and the Branch COVIDIANS, than these 2 men. Way before the rest of the GOP came around to it.

At every turn they have put the taxpayer and citizens rights first. They are different because they dont just fight against Dem spending/wars, they fight against unessary GOP spending/wars too. Everyone else makes decisions for herd blue or herd red, not principle.

FobTies said:

---

japantiger said:

---

FobTies said:

---

Massie and Rand are the best politicians in DC.

The fact that both sides have brainwashed their herds against them, just reinforces it.

As soon as Trump bashes someone, the cult follows suit.

---

If by "best" you mean two guys that have been completely ineffective at accomplishing anything, then sure. They're both a waste of oxygen

---

I cant think of anyone more effective at fighting back and exposing the gross injustice from Fauci and the Branch COVIDIANS, than these 2 men. Way before the rest of the GOP came around to it.

At every turn they have put the taxpayer and citizens rights first. They are different because they dont just fight against Dem spending/wars, they fight against unessary GOP spending/wars too. Everyone else makes decisions for herd blue or herd red, not principle.

---

You don't get it. If your team isn't winning then principles are pointless. We should abandon principles and bow to the whims of whatever direction the GOP takes us because anything is better than the anti-American D's. Massie and his conservative views just get in the way of the GOP team winning the game of footsy vs the Ds.

AgBQ-00 said:

---

I can support his stance on the files...do not in anyway see his stance on these strikes as anything but tds. dude has been infected by it

---

Massie's position on Iran is no surprise because he is fervently anti war unless it has approval through Congress as the Constitution demands of it. Now you can certainly disagree with his position and say it is overly idealistic or unrealistic but it has nothing to do with TDS. He's very consistent on this issue and has been his entire career.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

His stance on Epstein was also TDS. He didn't say **** while Biden's handlers ran the country. He's a little ***** who would rather kick and scream than help Americans.

---

Actually this isn't true. All of this was prior to Trump being elected, from Grok:

Quote:

---

Thomas Massie's earliest public mention of Jeffrey Epstein that I could find dates back to March 27, 2022. In a thread on X (then Twitter), he criticized Bill Gates' association with Epstein, quoting a New York Times article from 2019 that noted Gates began his relationship with Epstein after Epstein's conviction for sex crimes. Massie wrote: "Not a man to be trusted with your food supply or anything else for that matter: 'And unlike many others, Mr. Gates started the relationship after Mr. Epstein was convicted of sex crimes.'"
This appears to be a passing reference in the context of distrusting Gates, rather than a deep dive into Epstein's case.
He mentioned Epstein again in February 2024, when responding to a question about compromised members of Congress. In a post, he explicitly demanded the release of Epstein's client list: "I demand the release of Epstein's client list!"
Another reference came in June 2024, during an interview reply where he discussed blackmail possibilities and suggested Epstein was likely involved in "higher level espionage with business leaders and the executive branch."

---

None of that had anything to do with Trump. If you look at Massie's positions they are very consistent. You can disagree with them. You can call him useless and unreasonable. You can say we need someone else who will play ball in a tight Congressional majority. You can say you don't like him personally. However when you say he just does and says things because he has TDS it is only hurting your credibility.

Massie reminds me of the old school Lyndon LaRouche followers.

Massie is a tool acting the fool.

Tea Party said:

---

FobTies said:

---

japantiger said:

---

FobTies said:

---

Massie and Rand are the best politicians in DC.

The fact that both sides have brainwashed their herds against them, just reinforces it.

As soon as Trump bashes someone, the cult follows suit.

---

If by "best" you mean two guys that have been completely ineffective at accomplishing anything, then sure. They're both a waste of oxygen

---

I cant think of anyone more effective at fighting back and exposing the gross injustice from Fauci and the Branch COVIDIANS, than these 2 men. Way before the rest of the GOP came around to it.

At every turn they have put the taxpayer and citizens rights first. They are different because they dont just fight against Dem spending/wars, they fight against unessary GOP spending/wars too. Everyone else makes decisions for herd blue or herd red, not principle.

---

You don't get it. If your team isn't winning then principles are pointless. We should abandon principles and bow to the whims of whatever direction the GOP takes us because anything is better than the anti-American D's. Massie and his conservative views just get in the way of the GOP team winning the game of footsy vs the Ds.

---

Yep. The good news is it may be soon possible to get a populist charismatic libertarian that can effectively combat the RNC & DNC brainwashing machines. With X, the right guy might be able to gain enough support, despite the bought and paid for media.

Its a pretty simple message. Reduce gov spending and increase personal freedom. Dave Smith would mop the floor in debate. The challenge is getting someone like that to run, and withstanding all the goal post moving rules meant to keep them off the duopoly debate stage.

When Massie and all the cronies actually take someone away in "cuffs" then I'll listen, until then, they are Sabre Rattling for their own benefit.

Randy and Massie are Libertarians. As soon as folks admit that and understand they are not the core of the GOP, they are not leaders of the GOP and they do NOT represent the ideals of what it has traditionally meant to be a "conservative" or "republican".

Quite a few closeted Ls who seem to be ashamed of their political ideology. Embrace it folks. Just understand its reach as a party and / or platform is limited.

But the anointment of them as some sort of ideal R is wrong, misguided, misplaced.

The other issue with Massie, and its just as big, is he seems oblivious to the concept that as serving as a foil against Trump he is simply achieving nothing further than assisting Dems in their quest for power.

This is like having a slight issue with Israel and offering your full support to Iran over that issue.

They aren't ashamed of libertarian ideology. There is a political party duopoly in America. The DNC & RNC are extremely effective at eliminating the possibility of a 3rd party. The media is incentived to be pro duopoly, and the debate rule framework is designed to keep outsiders sidelined. That could change in coming years, but untilvthen, running and getting elected as L is basically impossible in almost every scenario. The red and blue masses have been brainwashed to believe the L party are a bunch of comicon, tin hat wearing losers.

There are millions of libertarian minded citizens that vote D or R every election, simply due to this reality.

Yet here they are, selling out the long term good of the country over their own egos.

Yeah, thats what dems said about Tulsi, when she stood up for whats right. Also pretty ironic for the GOP to make that claim while one of the most egotistical POTUS in history is now at the helm. Love or hate Trump, there is no denying the size of his ego...way bigger than Rand or Massie.