YouBet said:

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Ag with kids said:

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YouBet said:

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I'm not sure I care about this. I don't really consider the UK an ally anymore so if they get fuel from Russia it's not really that big of a deal. That country is finished anyway.

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Remember...NATO is there so that Russia doesn't attack that part of the world...

I'm a firm proponent of NATO.

But, If the countries that we're supposed to be protecting from Russia want to cozy up to Russia, I'm beginning to think that offloading a lot of the heavy lifting to those countries is a good idea. We can be their 6th Manu Ginobli...Bad ass and solves lots of problems when brought in, but not the front line defense...

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Right and when Europe is in bed with Russia to get energy then I see no need for NATO. And it sounds like Trump is headed there with his announcement yesterday that he's going to dial back resources for any NATO engagement that might happen.

I just go back to the point that Europe has 4x the population and 14x the GDP of Russia. They are more than capable of mitigating Russian aggression if/when they choose to be adults and care about their own sovereignty and safety. Hell, they have 100M more people than us.

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1. Europe and Russia will form their own version of NATO. NATO will dissolve.
2. Muslims will totally and fully take over Europe.
3. Muslims will also attempt to take over Canada and put their power in North America.
4. US will be forced to do something.

Science Denier said:

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YouBet said:

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Ag with kids said:

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YouBet said:

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I'm not sure I care about this. I don't really consider the UK an ally anymore so if they get fuel from Russia it's not really that big of a deal. That country is finished anyway.

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Remember...NATO is there so that Russia doesn't attack that part of the world...

I'm a firm proponent of NATO.

But, If the countries that we're supposed to be protecting from Russia want to cozy up to Russia, I'm beginning to think that offloading a lot of the heavy lifting to those countries is a good idea. We can be their 6th Manu Ginobli...Bad ass and solves lots of problems when brought in, but not the front line defense...

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Right and when Europe is in bed with Russia to get energy then I see no need for NATO. And it sounds like Trump is headed there with his announcement yesterday that he's going to dial back resources for any NATO engagement that might happen.

I just go back to the point that Europe has 4x the population and 14x the GDP of Russia. They are more than capable of mitigating Russian aggression if/when they choose to be adults and care about their own sovereignty and safety. Hell, they have 100M more people than us.

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1. Europe and Russia will form their own version of NATO. NATO will dissolve.
2. Muslims will totally and fully take over Europe.
3. Muslims will also attempt to take over Canada and put their power in North America.
4. US will be forced to do something.

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Not aligning with Russia to contain Islam (post '91) will be one of the bigger mistakes ever made. Instead, NATO was perpetuated against an enemy that no longer existed at the time.

Trump about to make a deal to get out of this.

Quote:

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House Republicans struggled Thursday to find the votes to dismiss legislation that would compel President Donald Trump to withdraw from the war with Iran, delaying planned votes on the matter into June.

The House had scheduled a vote on a war powers resolution, brought by Democrats, that would rein in Trump's military campaign. But as it became clear that Republicans would not have the numbers to defeat the bill, GOP leaders declined to hold a vote on it.

Republicans in the Senate are also working to ensure they have the votes to dismiss another war powers resolution that advanced to a final vote earlier this week, when four GOP senators supported the resolution and three others were absent from the vote.

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Quote:

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Not aligning with Russia to contain Islam (post '91) will be one of the bigger mistakes ever made. Instead, NATO was perpetuated against an enemy that no longer existed at the time.

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I always found it comical that Putin wanted to join NATO. Warsaw Pact was no more. So the reason had to be to get info on our modern weapons. So from that perspective, I understand why any alliance on anything that might include weapons technology would be problematical.

Reposting, per Bob Branco's request in the other Iran war thread.

https://www.axios.com/2026/05/06/iran-us-deal-one-page-memo

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The one-page, 14-point memorandum of understanding (MOU) is being negotiated between Trump's envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and several Iranian officials, both directly and through mediators.

In its current form, the MOU would declare an end to the war in the region and the start of a 30-day period of negotiations on a detailed agreement to open the strait, limit Iran's nuclear program and lift U.S. sanctions.Those negotiations could happen in Islamabad or Geneva, two sources said.Iran's restrictions on shipping through the strait and the U.S. naval blockade would be gradually lifted during that 30-day period, according to a U.S. official.If the negotiations collapse, U.S. forces would be able to restore the blockade or resume military action, the U.S. official said.

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Quote:

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The duration of the moratorium on uranium enrichment is being actively negotiated, with three sources saying it would be at least 12 years and one putting 15 as a likely landing spot. Iran proposed a 5-year moratorium on enrichment and the U.S. demanded 20.

The U.S. wants to insert a provision whereby any Iranian violation on enrichment would prolong the moratorium, the source said. Iran would be able to enrich to the low level of 3.67% after it expires.

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Quote:

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Iran would commit in the MOU to never seek a nuclear weapon or conduct weaponization-related activities. According to a U.S. official, the parties are discussing a clause whereby Iran would commit not to operate underground nuclear facilities.

Iran would also commit to an enhanced inspections regime, including snap inspections by UN inspectors, according to the U.S. official.

The U.S. would commit as part of the MOU to a gradual lifting of the sanctions imposed on Iran and the gradual release of billions of dollars in Iranian funds that are frozen around the world.

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Quote:

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Two sources with knowledge also claimed Iran would agree to remove its highly enriched uranium from the country, a key U.S. priority that Tehran has rejected up to now.

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DeschutesAg said:

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Reposting, per Bob Branco's request in the other Iran war thread.

https://www.axios.com/2026/05/06/iran-us-deal-one-page-memo

Quote:

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The one-page, 14-point memorandum of understanding (MOU) is being negotiated between Trump's envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and several Iranian officials, both directly and through mediators.

In its current form, the MOU would declare an end to the war in the region and the start of a 30-day period of negotiations on a detailed agreement to open the strait, limit Iran's nuclear program and lift U.S. sanctions.Those negotiations could happen in Islamabad or Geneva, two sources said.Iran's restrictions on shipping through the strait and the U.S. naval blockade would be gradually lifted during that 30-day period, according to a U.S. official.If the negotiations collapse, U.S. forces would be able to restore the blockade or resume military action, the U.S. official said.

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Quote:

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The duration of the moratorium on uranium enrichment is being actively negotiated, with three sources saying it would be at least 12 years and one putting 15 as a likely landing spot. Iran proposed a 5-year moratorium on enrichment and the U.S. demanded 20.

The U.S. wants to insert a provision whereby any Iranian violation on enrichment would prolong the moratorium, the source said. Iran would be able to enrich to the low level of 3.67% after it expires.

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Quote:

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Iran would commit in the MOU to never seek a nuclear weapon or conduct weaponization-related activities. According to a U.S. official, the parties are discussing a clause whereby Iran would commit not to operate underground nuclear facilities.

Iran would also commit to an enhanced inspections regime, including snap inspections by UN inspectors, according to the U.S. official.

The U.S. would commit as part of the MOU to a gradual lifting of the sanctions imposed on Iran and the gradual release of billions of dollars in Iranian funds that are frozen around the world.

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Quote:

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Two sources with knowledge also claimed Iran would agree to remove its highly enriched uranium from the country, a key U.S. priority that Tehran has rejected up to now.

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So an unsourced article with no actual, verifiably information? Got it.

And it's 3 weeks old misinformation. But other than that, completely relevant.

Did Obama and Kerry put the MOU together? Maybe internet is worse than we thought in Tehran and those guys don't realize Trump is POTUS now.

They need to update the Rolodex.

Today's Axios Update: https://www.axios.com/2026/05/22/trump-iran-meeting-resume-war-deal

Quote:

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5/22/2026

Trump met top advisers on Iran as he weighs return to war

President Trump convened a meeting with his senior national security team on the war with Iran on Friday morning, two U.S. officials told Axios.

Why it matters: Trump is seriously considering launching new strikes against Iran barring a last-minute breakthrough in negotiations, sources who have spoken directly with the president say.

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Quote:

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Trump's Iran meeting took place as the head of the Pakistani military, Field Marshal Asim Munir, traveled to Tehran in an apparent 11th-hour effort to bridge the gaps and prevent a resumption of the war.

A Qatari delegation also arrived in Tehran on Friday to support the mediation effort.Munir is expected to meet on Saturday with Gen. Ahmad Vahidi, the commander of the Revolutionary Guard Corps and a key player in the Iranian decision-making process.

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Quote:

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On Tuesday, he (Trump) told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that he wanted to give diplomacy another chance, but by Thursday night he was leaning toward ordering a strike, the two sources said.

A source close to Trump said the President has raised the possibility of a final "decisive" major military operation, after which he could declare victory and end the war.

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There's lots more in the article, but the jist is the Mullah / IRGC regime better take the proffered deal. If they don't, aerial military attacks by the USA will resume.

You should take into account the Axios piece was written by a huge critic of both Trump and Netanyahu.

bobbranco said:

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You should take into account the Axios piece was written by a huge critic of both Trump and Netanyahu.

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Understood, and that is a good point. However, this has been reported in many other news outlets across the political spectrum. Today Marco Rubio alluded to it again.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/iran-war-trump-news-strait-hormuz-blockade-ceasefire-tensions-may-22.amp

Marco Rubio:

Quote:

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"I can tell you that what I hope there is, this is what I hope for, and this is the point I made is, we all would love to see an agreement with Iran in which the Straits are open and they abandon their nuclear ambitions and so forth, their nuclear weapons ambitions," Rubio said in Helsingborg, Sweden, where he had traveled Friday to attend a NATO foreign ministers meeting.

"That's what we would all hope for. And that's what we're going to continue to work on. And that's what work is ongoing, even as I speak to you now in that regard.

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He also said a Plan B is what has to happen and will happen if Iran refuses. He was talking to reps of the NATO countries.

DeschutesAg said:

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Marco Rubio:

Quote:

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"I can tell you that what I hope there is, this is what I hope for, and this is the point I made is, we all would love to see an agreement with Iran in which the Straits are open and they abandon their nuclear ambitions and so forth, their nuclear weapons ambitions," Rubio said in Helsingborg, Sweden, where he had traveled Friday to attend a NATO foreign ministers meeting.

"That's what we would all hope for. And that's what we're going to continue to work on. And that's what work is ongoing, even as I speak to you now in that regard.

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The quoted from Marco Rubio is not what is opined within the Axios article...

Maybe I'm missing something. How is it different?

New Trump post.

"From Helmand to the Sea, the Middle East Shall be Free!!"

nortex97 said:

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New Trump post.

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He is not stable….who does this?

China not really backing their mullah pals at this point at all.

Dr. Yu Jie (@Yu_JieC) | China Foreign Policy Expert | Chatam House:

Iran is not China's most important energy supplier - so the argument that Iran was targeted because of China doesn't hold.

Global petrol prices have risen 25% since the war began. In China, only 10%. China has… pic.twitter.com/HtuaT6LPXl

— Clash Report (@clashreport) May 23, 2026

YouBet said:

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Trump about to make a deal to get out of this.

Quote:

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House Republicans struggled Thursday to find the votes to dismiss legislation that would compel President Donald Trump to withdraw from the war with Iran, delaying planned votes on the matter into June.

The House had scheduled a vote on a war powers resolution, brought by Democrats, that would rein in Trump's military campaign. But as it became clear that Republicans would not have the numbers to defeat the bill, GOP leaders declined to hold a vote on it.

Republicans in the Senate are also working to ensure they have the votes to dismiss another war powers resolution that advanced to a final vote earlier this week, when four GOP senators supported the resolution and three others were absent from the vote.

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Democrats are always working to ensure a defeat for America...

China have problem of own:

China is in trouble and people that think they are going to overtake us really don't understand what's happening there.

Same sorts of folks who think the gay ayatollah has us by the balls as he awaits his Trump TACO.

Delusionment of some is amazing. I assume is has to be a bizarre mental cope of an eternal pessimist that even when good things happen for them they have to assign even higher good in others, no matter how misplaced, so that they can then be negative about positives.

You see this attitude about regarding Aggie sports if you ever venture to those threads.

flown-the-coop said:

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Same sorts of folks who think the gay ayatollah has us by the balls as he awaits his Trump TACO.

Delusionment of some is amazing. I assume is has to be a bizarre mental cope of an eternal pessimist that even when good things happen for them they have to assign even higher good in others, no matter how misplaced, so that they can then be negative about positives.

You see this attitude about regarding Aggie sports if you ever venture to those threads.

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Furthermore, this is the just the data we can get to because they took a ton of their metrics offline during COVID and never brought them back. So what we are seeing here is most likely a rosy view of reality.

And ironically Iran dragging on particularly the SoH being closed impacts China hard.

I've read a couple blurbs that Xi seems to be breaking with some of his Maoist tendencies, another potential indicator he is getting nervous about finishing out his "term".

flown-the-coop said:

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And ironically Iran dragging on particularly the SoH being closed impacts China hard.

I've read a couple blurbs that Xi seems to be breaking with some of his Maoist tendencies, another potential indicator he is getting nervous about finishing out his "term".

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He already had to put down one coup against him a few months ago. He purged / killed his entire staff aside from one person.

That would be an about face for him because he went hard back into communism after the previous guy had opened things up a bit. Maybe not surprising though if he's realized hard communism will simply fail faster.

Correct. Seems like he may be transitioning from idolizing Mao to maybe believing he is "better" or more "enlightened" than Mao.

Regardless, he continues to weaken with his only response limited to cracking down hard internally or rallying against an external enemy. Neither are good options for his tenure.

There should not be any negotiation on anything until Iran agrees and we confirm that they cannot have nukes and do not interfere with shipping through the strait. So I do not understand the continuing talks. They have had more than enuf time to agree and give us the fuel. They never will. Turn out their lights and eliminate all means of transportation and mobility. And kill more lunatics

I don't disagree but the only explanation I can fathom is that we and the Israeli's are tracking all of their communications and locations, while knowing the Iranian people are increasingly frustrated/angry and the IRGC is also becoming less reliable for them as they are largely going unpaid.

And I'm not saying the above is true/well sourced, just a guess/wish-cast. One comment Trump made a few weeks back that I think went under-noted was his disappointment in the Kurds not sending arms in to help overthrow the regime. That belied an intent to see a revolution driven internally that didn't happen yet, imho, and probably created a discussion in '47 circles about what the next steps would/should look like to get there.

MagnumLoad said:

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There should not be any negotiation on anything until Iran agrees and we confirm that they cannot have nukes and do not interfere with shipping through the strait. So I do not understand the continuing talks. They have had more than enuf time to agree and give us the fuel. They never will. Turn out their lights and eliminate all means of transportation and mobility. And kill more lunatics

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Have you seen Kushner and Witkoff at these negotiations?

Iran continues to poorly understand their options. Either unconditional surrender or unconditional surrender w/ bombs.

The only thing being negotiated is internally within Iran which option they think is best.

Quote:

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The only thing being negotiated is internally within Iran which option they think is best.

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They may be stalling in hopes the poll-watching useful idiots (the Dems/Left, MSM, never-trumpers, etc) undermine the president's position.

Trump reported to be doing a conf call with ME leaders re the proposed deal. I hate that. Do what we have to do and quit letting this drag on while it impacts energy cost and the economy.

https://www.axios.com/2026/05/23/trump-iran-deal-resume-war-interview

Quote:

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The latest: The president is expected to hold a conference call with Gulf leaders later today to discuss the situation with Iran, per two sources with knowledge of the plans.

The leaders of Egypt, Pakistan and Turkey are currently expected to be among the participants. A senior Israeli official said that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his aides are in touch with the White House about the emerging deal.

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Axios also said that Trump will:

Quote:

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...meet with Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner later on Saturday to discuss Iran's latest response. Vice President Vance is also expected to join.

Pakistani Field Marshal Asim Munir, who has been mediating between the parties, left Tehran on Saturday after meeting top officials there and trying to push a deal across the line.

A deal was not finalized but Pakistan said there was "encouraging progress toward a final understanding. "The new draft that Trump intends to review on Saturday emerged from the Iran-Pakistan talks.

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Quote:

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Iran's foreign ministry spokesperson said Saturday that Iran and the U.S. were in the final stage of discussions on a memorandum of understanding to end the war.

The spokesperson said the MOU would also deal with gradually reopening the Strait of Hormuz, lifting the U.S. blockade and releasing frozen Iranian funds.
He added that a 30-60 day period of negotiations on a detailed agreement would follow.

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Rubio:

Quote:

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"Up to now, the U.S. and Iranian positions on both the nuclear issue and the strait have been irreconcilable. Those issues might not be fully resolved even if a peace memo is signed."

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Interesting, if true.

[You earned a timeout for trolling on the other thread. When you jumped on this one and did the same thing you earned an extension -- Staff]

A deal is happening.

If a deal is struck to end the Iranian conflict because it is believed that the Strait of Hormuz cannot be protected from Iranian terrorism and Iran still possesses the capability to destroy major Gulf oil infrastructure, then Iran will be perceived as being a dominate force…

— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) May 23, 2026

BREAKING: President Trump says an agreement with Iran has been “largely negotiated” and will be announced shortly.

Trump says the Strait of Hormuz will be reopened under the agreement. pic.twitter.com/LL9xYsWMKg

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) May 23, 2026

Queso1 said:

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Didn't accomplish a single thing. Back to where we were, but with depleted armaments and high oil prices. What a joke.

Of course most here were waiting for them to say what objectives were met so they could celebrate them.

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We actually met the initially stated objectives in the first 2-3 weeks of the war. Everything since then has been trying to solve, and extricate ourselves from, the Strait crisis (which resulted from our attacks, of course).

DTP02 said:

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Queso1 said:

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Didn't accomplish a single thing. Back to where we were, but with depleted armaments and high oil prices. What a joke.

Of course most here were waiting for them to say what objectives were met so they could celebrate them.

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We actually met the initially stated objectives in the first 2-3 weeks of the war. Everything since then has been trying to solve, and extricate ourselves from, the Strait crisis (which resulted from our attacks, of course).

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Wrong.