Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

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K2-HMFIC
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In reply to AGHouston11 • 12:58p, 6/20/26
AGHouston11 said:
K2-HMFIC said:
RangerRick9211 said:
TxAG#2011 said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag87H2O said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
AGHouston11 said:
Does anyone really believe Bibi is not going to sabotage this anyway possible?
It's been the same pattern the whole time.


Right... dealing with Hezbolah, a terrorist organization lobbying bombs at civilian targets, is the problem...

There's no reason for that to ever be allowed to be part of the discussion. It's a complete win for Iran to try to legitimize and cement their terror proxies when they are being ripped out.

Israel is currently invading and occupying territory in Lebanon and is bombing civilian targets in Beirut.

They are literally working with the Lebanese government to get rid of Hezbollah. We all know where you get your propaganda from, so we can forego the "Israel targets civilians" garbage.

Propoganda? Both Trump and Vance have criticized Israel for bombing civilian targets in the last 48 hours.

So what? Trump and Vance don't get to tell Israel how best to defend themselves. This is 100% on Iran and their proxy in Hezbolla. They were given the orders by the Islamic regime to attack Israel to provoke a response to give them cover to break the memorandum. They will never deal in good faith.

And it's propaganda.


Why would the US not tell Israel what to do? We literally pay for their entire military and give them all of their weapons. If we didn't subsidize their entire country, then I would agree we shouldn't tell them how to manage their business.

You do realize that the entire Iron Dome and the Arrow missiles are 100% Israeli developed, right?

So, not all their weapons...


Developed using whose tax dollars? I believe that would be the American taxpayer's.

The vast majority of the money that Israel gets from us is spent DIRECTLY on US military equipment, not any of their stuff.


We all get it. You don't like Israel.


Have to admire just how effective AIPAC is when I read delusion like this.

"Yes they are spending our taxes, but it comes back to us. Trust me bro."


No dog in this fight. Just genuinely looking for information, but I though nearly all of our aide to Israel was Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants with US suppliers strings attached. I could be wrong, but it's pretty formal and not a "trust me bro."

Even the Iron Dome, they R&D the system/build it, but Raytheon makes the interceptors.



FMF does low interest loans with the requirement they buy US made equipment and then pay us back.


And when they need to resupply we pay for that too.

So if you are the MIC what's good for business?


They get loans…that's not the same.

Aerospace & Defense makes up 8% of total GDP and has an unusually high average of high paying manufacturing jobs.
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TxAG#2011
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In reply to RangerRick9211 • 2:50p, 6/20/26
RangerRick9211 said:
TxAG#2011 said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag87H2O said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
AGHouston11 said:
Does anyone really believe Bibi is not going to sabotage this anyway possible?
It's been the same pattern the whole time.


Right... dealing with Hezbolah, a terrorist organization lobbying bombs at civilian targets, is the problem...

There's no reason for that to ever be allowed to be part of the discussion. It's a complete win for Iran to try to legitimize and cement their terror proxies when they are being ripped out.

Israel is currently invading and occupying territory in Lebanon and is bombing civilian targets in Beirut.

They are literally working with the Lebanese government to get rid of Hezbollah. We all know where you get your propaganda from, so we can forego the "Israel targets civilians" garbage.

Propoganda? Both Trump and Vance have criticized Israel for bombing civilian targets in the last 48 hours.

So what? Trump and Vance don't get to tell Israel how best to defend themselves. This is 100% on Iran and their proxy in Hezbolla. They were given the orders by the Islamic regime to attack Israel to provoke a response to give them cover to break the memorandum. They will never deal in good faith.

And it's propaganda.


Why would the US not tell Israel what to do? We literally pay for their entire military and give them all of their weapons. If we didn't subsidize their entire country, then I would agree we shouldn't tell them how to manage their business.

You do realize that the entire Iron Dome and the Arrow missiles are 100% Israeli developed, right?

So, not all their weapons...


Developed using whose tax dollars? I believe that would be the American taxpayer's.

The vast majority of the money that Israel gets from us is spent DIRECTLY on US military equipment, not any of their stuff.


We all get it. You don't like Israel.


Have to admire just how effective AIPAC is when I read delusion like this.

"Yes they are spending our taxes, but it comes back to us. Trust me bro."


No dog in this fight. Just genuinely looking for information, but I though nearly all of our aide to Israel was Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants with US suppliers strings attached. I could be wrong, but it's pretty formal and not a "trust me bro."

Even the Iron Dome, they R&D the system/build it, but Raytheon makes the interceptors.


This is just standard government corruption, and even assuming that all the money does go there, how is that a good thing?

They take our tax dollars and send it over to Raytheon? That is just corporate welfare and it's ridiculous.
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YouBet
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In reply to Queso1 • 3:08p, 6/20/26
AG
Queso1 said:
Yet it's ok to question any government other than that government.

I object to my tax dollars supporting genocide and the murder of civilians. I've been to Israel and the people are wonderful.

The gravy train is just about over and will dry up completely once the Fox News boomers die out.


I have zero allegiance to Israel other than the practical viewpoint that they are a better option than the alternative.

But, I guess the genocide myth is taking hold on F16 now. Wild.
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UTExan
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In reply to YouBet • 4:16p, 6/20/26
Using the terms genocide and apartheid are intellectual shortcuts to avoid understanding the complexities of Israeli-Palestinian relations.
I suspect most on this board may not be aware of Palestinian activities pre-WW2 and afterward, including the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem being an honored guest of Hitler during the war when the Brits were after him.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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AGHouston11
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In reply to UTExan • 4:45p, 6/20/26
AG
UTExan said:
Using the terms genocide and apartheid are intellectual shortcuts to avoid understanding the complexities of Israeli-Palestinian relations.
I suspect most on this board may not be aware of Palestinian activities pre-WW2 and afterward, including the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem being an honored guest of Hitler during the war when the Brits were after him.


Yes and most may not realize we had one out most important CIA bases in Tehran until 1979.

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nortex97
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4:46p, 6/20/26
AG

Yep.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to nortex97 • 4:47p, 6/20/26
I thought these guys weren't radicalized.
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bubblesthechimp
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4:55p, 6/20/26
So then why the **** are we trying to make a deal. Why did we think we could in the first place.
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nortex97
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In reply to bubblesthechimp • 4:58p, 6/20/26
AG
bubblesthechimp said:
So then why the **** are we trying to make a deal. Why did we think we could in the first place.

I know you are asking this in a rhetorical manner but Steve Cortez and Halperin had a great discussion on this yesterday; a deal is the least bad option to avoid a catastrophic energy price driven economic event and a ground/much more intense and deadly war alike.

I can't find the clip of that part, I think around the 15 minute mark (was listening on spotify this am).
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nortex97
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 4:59p, 6/20/26
AG
BMX Bandit said:
I thought these guys weren't radicalized.

Trump always talks in hyperbole. Not an endorsement but it is true, imho.
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AGHouston11
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In reply to bubblesthechimp • 5:00p, 6/20/26
AG
bubblesthechimp said:
So then why the **** are we trying to make a deal. Why did we think we could in the first place.


And that's the 300 billion dollar plus question.
At this point it seems the president is just trying to get any kind of deal possible to get back to the way it was before Epic Fury.
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Old McDonald
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In reply to AGHouston11 • 6:05p, 6/20/26
AGHouston11 said:
bubblesthechimp said:
So then why the **** are we trying to make a deal. Why did we think we could in the first place.


And that's the 300 billion dollar plus question.
At this point it seems the president is just trying to get any kind of deal possible to get back to the way it was before Epic Fury.
that's what he wants, but it's not happening. iran functionally controls the SoH now, that's not changing, and it's largely his fault for gifting them the opportunity to prove they could.

that's why he threw the tantrum about the us not needing the strait open and the rest of the world not leaping to step in and clean up his mess. accountability is kryptonite to narcissists when they **** up.
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nortex97
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9:07p, 6/20/26
AG
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BlackGold
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In reply to Beef Cheek • 12:00a, 6/21/26
AG
Beef Cheek said:
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Has anyone noticed that almost all of our "intel" and assessments on Iran have been wrong? At least based on what we've been told/leaks. I am not sure how much of it was a psyop (either against Iran, or against the American public), but just think about it.

-The regime is ready to fall -> it wasn't
-The Kurds are going to act as ground forces -> they seemed pretty content sitting this out
-The Iranian people are ready to rise up -> they clearly aren't willing or able
-The government killed 40k/60k/90k (pick a number) - there is no evidence of this
-Take out the supreme leader and other leaders and their command and control will collapse -> they decentralized everything
-We've destroyed 80%, then 90% of their drones/missiles/launchers -> latest estimates claim they still have up to 70% of missile stockpiles and launchers
-We have complete air dominance - we didn't
-Iran can't survive a blockade for more than a week -> they can
-Iran will run out of room to store their oil -> they didn't
-Probably more I can't think of off the top of my head

I've heard that the CIA isn't as well positioned in Iran as it is in other countries. But this isn't really to point out that our intel services were wrong, so much to point out that we shouldn't trust the propaganda we are being fed.


It's almost like the administration has been lying


I think it's some combo of lying and deflecting, but I also think Israel feeds us bull**** intel to pull us into their engagements. They're completely untrustworthy. Every one of the countries they have wanted us to topple for them have been "two weeks away" from making a nuke. Bibi has been using that excuse for decades now.
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Queso1
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In reply to Ag with kids • 12:27a, 6/21/26
AG
How does it help the American taxpayer? We have significant problems at home. How does Raytheon's enrichment factor into this?

I'm sure plenty of Chinese kids are buying LeBron jerseys, but that doesn't help me and I'm not paying for them to be made.
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ShotOver
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:13a, 6/21/26
AG
nortex97 said:

Yep.


How is a press conference that happened 4 months ago "breaking"?
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Dungeon Crawler Carl
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8:16a, 6/21/26
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AggieBaseball06
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In reply to Dungeon Crawler Carl • 9:52a, 6/21/26
AG
Dungeon Crawler Carl said:


I'm by no means an expert but are those websites based in large part on ships' AIS transponders? And hasn't it been pretty well reported that ships have been turning those off in the Strait?

At roughly the 5 second mark you can see 3 ships appear heading west around Oman. Where did they come from?
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sts7049
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10:37a, 6/21/26
AG
yes, but people are tracking dark vessels as well

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sts7049
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10:48a, 6/21/26
AG


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Queso1
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11:36a, 6/21/26
AG
[Do not post X shots that bypass obscenity filters -- Staff]
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Dungeon Crawler Carl
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In reply to AggieBaseball06 • 11:49a, 6/21/26
Get on there and track them....... Show us what you come up with.

Maybe Trump will hire you into the Ministry of Propaganda.
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AggieBaseball06
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In reply to Dungeon Crawler Carl • 11:56a, 6/21/26
AG
I was genuinely just asking a question.

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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to BlackGold • 12:24p, 6/21/26
BlackGold said:
Beef Cheek said:
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Has anyone noticed that almost all of our "intel" and assessments on Iran have been wrong? At least based on what we've been told/leaks. I am not sure how much of it was a psyop (either against Iran, or against the American public), but just think about it.

-The regime is ready to fall -> it wasn't
-The Kurds are going to act as ground forces -> they seemed pretty content sitting this out
-The Iranian people are ready to rise up -> they clearly aren't willing or able
-The government killed 40k/60k/90k (pick a number) - there is no evidence of this
-Take out the supreme leader and other leaders and their command and control will collapse -> they decentralized everything
-We've destroyed 80%, then 90% of their drones/missiles/launchers -> latest estimates claim they still have up to 70% of missile stockpiles and launchers
-We have complete air dominance - we didn't
-Iran can't survive a blockade for more than a week -> they can
-Iran will run out of room to store their oil -> they didn't
-Probably more I can't think of off the top of my head

I've heard that the CIA isn't as well positioned in Iran as it is in other countries. But this isn't really to point out that our intel services were wrong, so much to point out that we shouldn't trust the propaganda we are being fed.


It's almost like the administration has been lying


I think it's some combo of lying and deflecting, but I also think Israel feeds us bull**** intel to pull us into their engagements. They're completely untrustworthy. Every one of the counties they have wanted us to topple for them have been "two weeks away" from making a nuke. Bibi has been using that excuse for decades now.

Well, we've constantly been told that we're heavily dependent on Israeli intelligence in the region. Considering how every one of our assessments have been wrong, I wonder how much we should really depend on their intelligence. Or perhaps their intel is good, but the person giving it to us takes some creative liberties before passing it on.
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bigtruckguy3500
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12:26p, 6/21/26
Just saw a video of Vance talkign about negotiating with Iran and turning over a new leaf. Makes me wonder one of two things
1) This is all a ruse to try and fake peace with them in order to bomb them again during negotiations
or
2) Trump failed at toppling the regime and cementing his legacy that way, so he may want to have a Nixon-China moment and restore reasonable relations with them as a way to cement his legacy as the president that brought peace in a different way.
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BMX Bandit
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12:31p, 6/21/26
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YouBet
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 12:32p, 6/21/26
AG
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Just saw a video of Vance talkign about negotiating with Iran and turning over a new leaf. Makes me wonder one of two things
1) This is all a ruse to try and fake peace with them in order to bomb them again during negotiations
or
2) Trump failed at toppling the regime and cementing his legacy that way, so he may want to have a Nixon-China moment and restore reasonable relations with them as a way to cement his legacy as the president that brought peace in a different way.

On #2, you may recall we tried this with Russia as our initial strategy in trying to get them to stop the Ukraine war. Rather than perpetually be enemies, he wanted to bring them back into the global economic fold because we actually do have issues we could align on. You can go back and see Rubio's comments on this. I applauded that effort, but it obviously didn't work with Putin.

Similar thing here. However noble it might be it will fail here too, unfortunately.
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DeschutesAg
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12:33p, 6/21/26
The direction this Trump / Republican snafu is tracking is not good.

Tactically we have won, and we can continue winning. We can use aerial attacks to blow up and destroy Iran's civilian infrastructure.

But strategically we are not currently winning.

If Trump, Vance, Rubio, and GOP don't turn things around quickly, Operation Epic Fury will need a new name.
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Scientific
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 12:37p, 6/21/26
AG
DeschutesAg said:
The direction this Trump / Republican snafu is tracking is not good.

Tactically we have won, and we can continue winning. We can use aerial attacks to blow up and destroy Iran's civilian infrastructure.

But strategically we are not currently winning.

If Trump, Vance, Rubio, and GOP don't turn things around quickly, Operation Epic Fury will need a new name.

Whiz Kid Metrics-McNamara
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 12:39p, 6/21/26
BMX Bandit said:

This doesn't look good.

I mean, sure, there'll be some fun memes on the social media, I'm sure, but in terms of the MOU deal, no bueno,
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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shiftyandquick
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12:48p, 6/21/26
This MOU is dead in the water and Trump/Vance/Rubio don't have a plan B, other than yelling, whining, mean posts, and threats.

Lindsey Graham said he talked to Trump for 4.5 hours. That's 4.5 hours of advocating for all-out war.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 12:49p, 6/21/26
AG
DeschutesAg said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag with kids said:
BlackGold said:
Ag87H2O said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
Keyno said:
Phatbob said:
AGHouston11 said:
Does anyone really believe Bibi is not going to sabotage this anyway possible?
It's been the same pattern the whole time.


Right... dealing with Hezbolah, a terrorist organization lobbying bombs at civilian targets, is the problem...

There's no reason for that to ever be allowed to be part of the discussion. It's a complete win for Iran to try to legitimize and cement their terror proxies when they are being ripped out.

Israel is currently invading and occupying territory in Lebanon and is bombing civilian targets in Beirut.

They are literally working with the Lebanese government to get rid of Hezbollah. We all know where you get your propaganda from, so we can forego the "Israel targets civilians" garbage.

Propoganda? Both Trump and Vance have criticized Israel for bombing civilian targets in the last 48 hours.

So what? Trump and Vance don't get to tell Israel how best to defend themselves. This is 100% on Iran and their proxy in Hezbolla. They were given the orders by the Islamic regime to attack Israel to provoke a response to give them cover to break the memorandum. They will never deal in good faith.

And it's propaganda.


Why would the US not tell Israel what to do? We literally pay for their entire military and give them all of their weapons. If we didn't subsidize their entire country, then I would agree we shouldn't tell them how to manage their business.

You do realize that the entire Iron Dome and the Arrow missiles are 100% Israeli developed, right?

So, not all their weapons...


Developed using whose tax dollars? I believe that would be the American taxpayer's.

The vast majority of the money that Israel gets from us is spent DIRECTLY on US military equipment, not any of their stuff.


We all get it. You don't like Israel.

Actually you don't get it. It isn't Israel we dislike. It is the Israel government's actions we don't like.

What you fail to understand is most Americans don't like evil and don't like liars.

Most Americans don't like traitors, even ones like Jonathon Pollard, no matter who they spy for.

We don't like what AIPAC has done to our political system. Can you understand why most Americans feel that way?

Most Americans don't approve of terrorism, genocide, or the intentional unnecessary murder of innocent people, regardless which nation commits it.

Do you know who Susan Wareham was? Or Ahmed Bouchikhi? What kind of government does such things?

Most Americans disagree with the lies and propaganda and other false claims Mark Levin and other Israel First fanatics spread.

When people falsely label objective fact-based and evidence-based criticisms of Netanyahu and his hardliner Israel government's actions as "antisemitism" and "hatred for Israel", they're gaslighting a lie. Most Americans see through that lying.

Most Americans are opposed to giving any more money to Israel. Political fallout here in the USA is happening.

Have fun with the Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes faction of the right.

I'll pass on that, though.
You can turn off signatures, btw
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DeschutesAg
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In reply to Scientific • 12:51p, 6/21/26
Scientific said:

Whiz Kid Metrics-McNamara
Yep.

And Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, too
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Phatbob • 12:51p, 6/21/26
AG
Phatbob said:
There's issues with every government. But for *some reason* there are a group of people who take particular offense to Israel for it either due to gullibility to conspiracy theories or being religiously predisposed to it by replacement theology. On this board it's almost entirely replacement theology that brings out this... special attention to one particular country's human faults

So much so that they'll poo poo Iran's faults...
You can turn off signatures, btw
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Keyno
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 12:54p, 6/21/26
DeschutesAg said:
The direction this Trump / Republican snafu is tracking is not good.

Tactically we have won, and we can continue winning. We can use aerial attacks to blow up and destroy Iran's civilian infrastructure.

But strategically we are not currently winning.

If Trump, Vance, Rubio, and GOP don't turn things around quickly, Operation Epic Fury will need a new name.

Sure, we could just commit mass war crimes to "win". Why don't we just nuke them? Is that the way we wanna go?

Its questionable if bombing their civilian infrastructure would even "win". You know what happens when we do that? Israel gets hit HARD. The US will run out of missile interceptors before Iran runs out of missiles. All of our bases in the region get hit hard. Water desalination plants in the region get hit. Oil refineries in the region get hit.

This threat was lobbed at Iran by Trump all the way back on EASTER. You know why it didn't happen- because all of the reasons I just listed.
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