What's Trump's off ramp on Iran? Bad intel?

18,958 Views | 219 Replies | Last: 10 days ago by flown-the-coop
deddog
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aggie93 said:

FobTies said:

Its got to happen within weeks. Trump has shown us he pivots when he loses support. Looks like a new "Trump got bad intel" narrative might be birthing.

Tulsi has already posted about "Trump making the decision to go to war based on the intel in front of him." Making it clear she gave no recommendation for war. So who gets thrown under the bus? Probably Israel. Trump then goes back to his old self with "Israel doesnt know WTF they are doing".

Still time for Trump to claim the US hit all their Epic Fury targets and claim victory like Midnight Hammer. What's stopping that? Bibi and others pushing him hard to "finish the job".

Edit: "Bad intel" about an Iranian plot to attack the US. The "imminent threat" that was supposedly presented to Trump, that he then used to initiate war.



It's pathetic seeing people openly root against the US and our troops because of TDS.

There's a lot of self loathing americans.
81 million of them. So it shouldn't be surprising.
bobbranco
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TexasAggie73 said:

What's disturbing is when Trump himself says he didn't expect Iran to strike other countries. Maybe they shouldn't have fired all the experts in the State department that studies these things along with what might happen to oil if the oil passage gets blocked


The marxists were fired. Boo effin hoo.
FobTies
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aggie93 said:


It's pathetic seeing people openly root against the US and our troops because of TDS.

Pathetic tactic. Encouraging Trump to find an off ramp and avoid a lengthy regime change war IS rooting for the US.

I guess Charlie Kirk was a bad American with TDS. Many of us are literally voicing the same concerns he did about an Iran war, and we get accused of "rooting against Troops".

4stringAg
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Dad-O-Lot said:

Has anyone considered that the "Imminent threat" from Iran was the fact that as soon as Israel started their attacks Iran would attack any US bases within range? Not that Iran had plans for a pre-emptive strike "imminently", but that it would happen as a response to Israel's attack.

Meaning if USA wasn't going to convince Israel not to attack, that USA joining the attack would save US lives.

I believe that Iran would never otherwise negotiate in good faith or give up their plans of becoming a nuclear power. Yes it sucks, but the "suckage" would not be reduced by waiting.

This. This is what Rubio said was in part the reason we joined Israel in the attack and I think what was meant by "imminent threat".

Also, I don't really understand what people are seeing in Trump's history as CIC or his feelings prior to his time as POTUS that suggest this is going to be another Iraq or that we're getting sucked down in quicksand and why the panic or fretting over that. For one, its only been 2+ weeks and we've virtually decapitated Iran's military in what was already stated to be a 4-5 week timeline. Second, Trump has never been one to tarry in long military engagements and I suspect he won't do that here.
Phatbob
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FobTies said:

aggie93 said:


It's pathetic seeing people openly root against the US and our troops because of TDS.

Pathetic tactic. Encouraging Trump to find an off ramp and avoid a lengthy regime change war IS rooting for the US.

I guess Charlie Kirk was a bad American with TDS. Many of us are literally voicing the same concerns he did about an Iran war, and we get accused of "rooting against Troops".



Your constant bringing up Kirk giving 1 possible but highly unlikely possibility is not the same as backing up your assertion that it is likely. At this point it is even less likely than it was when he recognized it. Give it up.
Ellis Wyatt
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You know what Charlie Kirk wouldn't be doing? Railing against Donald Trump or America while we're killing terrorists.

Stop it.
No Spin Ag
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There is no off ramp, unless making Iran MIGA is the off ramp.

Until that happens, full throttle ahead.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
YouBet
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4stringAg said:

Dad-O-Lot said:

Has anyone considered that the "Imminent threat" from Iran was the fact that as soon as Israel started their attacks Iran would attack any US bases within range? Not that Iran had plans for a pre-emptive strike "imminently", but that it would happen as a response to Israel's attack.

Meaning if USA wasn't going to convince Israel not to attack, that USA joining the attack would save US lives.

I believe that Iran would never otherwise negotiate in good faith or give up their plans of becoming a nuclear power. Yes it sucks, but the "suckage" would not be reduced by waiting.

This. This is what Rubio said was in part the reason we joined Israel in the attack and I think what was meant by "imminent threat".

Also, I don't really understand what people are seeing in Trump's history as CIC or his feelings prior to his time as POTUS that suggest this is going to be another Iraq or that we're getting sucked down in quicksand and why the panic or fretting over that. For one, its only been 2+ weeks and we've virtually decapitated Iran's military in what was already stated to be a 4-5 week timeline. Second, Trump has never been one to tarry in long military engagements and I suspect he won't do that here.


It was the primary justification early on for us doing this, right or wrong. We were not going to tell Israel what they could or couldn't do and Iran had already previously said if they were attacked the next thing they were going to do was to attack our assets in the region.

Thus, the imminent threat.
Bucketrunner
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FriscoKid said:

Everyone knows there was no imminent threat. This was a once in lifetime chance to eliminate the terrorist threat that is Iran. If this forces a regime change and we get a more western Iran then it's all worth it. Even the Arab countries can't stand Iran.

Keep looking for your gotcha moment, because this ain't it.

YouBet
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No Spin Ag said:

There is no off ramp, unless making Iran MIGA is the off ramp.

Until that happens, full throttle ahead.


We have a Congressional off-ramp when the highway dead ends into them in 42 days though.
Rockdoc
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Looks like you're just gonna have to be unhappy with the war and your TDS. it will be over when it's time to be over. Trump seems to be the only president that wants to protect the country for the future. If Iran was left to their own devices, it would be disastrous.
Sid Farkas
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off ramp: there's no one left alive who's willing to lead the regime.
Rapier108
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Ellis Wyatt said:

You know what Charlie Kirk wouldn't be doing? Railing against Donald Trump or America while we're killing terrorists.

Stop it.

Now the real reason for this thread comes out.

He is obsessed with posting Charlie Kirk videos (real/edited or AI) to try to support his hating on Israel.
FobTies
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Ok, let me get this straight. It's that Israel's strikes caused Iran to plan a retaliation attack on the US. So Trump had to go to war with Iran for that "imminent threat". But, we are NOT fighting "Israel's war"....its our war. We have been waiting 47 years for Israel to provoke Iran into provoking us into war. Got it.

Maybe thats what we hear in the next couple of days of testimony if Tulis/Radcliffe/Patel get asked about below:
Ellis Wyatt
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FobTies said:

Ok, let me get this straight. It's that Israel's strikes caused Iran to plan a retaliation attack on the US.

Didn't we already have an "Israel made us do it" thread?

Why is this necessary?
DTP02
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BMX Bandit said:

This continued push of Trump just being a stooge for Israel is very strange. Is there an end game here for the ruhtahd right?

If you really believe Trump is just doing Netanyahu's bidding, there are only 4 possibilities as to why:

A-too weak to stop him
B-too dumb to see it
C-compromised
D-paid off


You simply can't support Trump being president and push this nonsensical "Israel is controlling us" narrative.


Maybe this is all part of the nutball plan to impeach Trump and get Vance in office hatched in parental unit basements around the country.


If you're talking about Fuentes' supporters, they distrust, even hate, Vance.
Ellis Wyatt
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Actually, at least two "The Joooooos did it" threads.

This is unhealthy.
Geminiv
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FobTies said:

Ok, let me get this straight. It's that Israel's strikes caused Iran to plan a retaliation attack on the US. So Trump had to go to war with Iran for that "imminent threat". But, we are NOT fighting "Israel's war"....its our war. We have been waiting 47 years for Israel to provoke Iran into provoking us into war. Got it.

Maybe thats what we hear in the next couple of days of testimony if Tulis/Radcliffe/Patel get asked about below:



Pretty cut and dry then. The intelligence community will back Trumps assessment and boom problem solved. That was easy.
FobTies
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Ellis Wyatt said:

You know what Charlie Kirk wouldn't be doing? Railing against Donald Trump or America while we're killing terrorists.

Stop it.

You are claiming Charlie would change his mind, with no evidence or precedence to back that up. Im floating the idea Kirk would stick to his principles like Tucker, Megan Kelly, and Matt Walsh have on war with Iran.

Neither of us can know for certain. But its pretty eye opening how angry many here get having to see Charlie express his viewpoints about war with Iran.

Charlie was a legend, and he made very solid points that F16 wants to suppress and forget. Charlie would likely be rooting for exactly what I am in OP. Trump closing out EpFury like he did MidHammer. NOT "staying the course" to seize this "golden opportunity" to install a friendly regime.
FWTXAg
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No Spin Ag said:

There is no off ramp, unless making Iran MIGA is the off ramp.

Until that happens, full throttle ahead.


No Spin you are getting sneakier and sneakier lol

I love it.
Yukon Cornelius
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People here aren't blaming the Jews. They are blaming Israel government which doesn't have compete support from Israel itself anyways. Bibi was facing serious corruption charges prior to Oct 7. Until this Iran action it was heading towards collapse of Israel government coalition and immediate PM elections. This isn't a racial thing despite your and others attempt to make it so. It's a political issue. Your lack of understanding that distinction whether intentional or not is unhealthy.

As a side note you will lose the political debate because just like the left lost the political debate in 2016 when they tried to make Trump support into Racial supremacy support. It wasn't addressing the issues those who supported Trump had. It marginalized them by calling them racists, which is a horrible thing to call someone really. You ar repeating the same tactic.
No Spin Ag
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YouBet said:

No Spin Ag said:

There is no off ramp, unless making Iran MIGA is the off ramp.

Until that happens, full throttle ahead.


We have a Congressional off-ramp when the highway dead ends into them in 42 days though.


I've got the Iraq war on line one.

Hopefully Trump and his people have this handled before then, though. I'd imagine he and everyone working on Iran took this into account before our first strike.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Ag with kids
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Well, at least we now know what username Joe Kent uses when he posts here...
Sid Farkas
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Ellis Wyatt said:

Actually, at least two "The Joooooos did it" threads.

This is unhealthy.

Vocal minority trying to change minds.

The entire country would be behind this if we were protecting a European ally...Israel has proven itself to be worth far more than all Europe combined. hth.
deddog
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Sid Farkas said:

Ellis Wyatt said:

Actually, at least two "The Joooooos did it" threads.

This is unhealthy.

Vocal minority trying to change minds.

The entire country would be behind this if we were protecting a European ally...Israel has proven itself to be worth far more than all Europe combined. hth.

More like a paid poster.
And the poster isn't changing anyone's minds..ha ha
agAngeldad
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One thing we have clearly learned about our military is that we need improved tracking and detection capabilities of drones. Drones are cheap and effective, and apparently, Iran has thousands. The number one thing on defense should be improved capabilities against drones.

We do have the capability; however, it is not well developed
Stressboy
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Yukon finally touched on the crux of it. This is all part of a much bigger geopolitical strategy.

It's interesting reading this thread and seeing how tactical most of the opinions are. Even when someone discusses china they are being fairly tactical in their assessment of this war.

Taken in a vacuum the varied opinions, for and against, have good arguments.

But there is a much bigger context that needs to be taken into consideration and it is driving most of all modern conflicts and all decisions of the world's leaders.

The entire geopolitical and economic foundation we have enjoyed the last 50 years is shifting back to regional hegemonies (Empires) at the same time of unprecedented revolutions in asymmetric warfare and AI coupled with plunging populations.

Russia was the first to move in a desperate attempt to shore up their defenses and alleviate their cliff diving demographics. They failed at first because of our support with anti-tank weapons and are continuing to fail because of Ukraine's innovations in drone warfare.

Whoever was running our country for Biden did not seem to grasp the magnitude of what is happening internationally or they put their priorities elsewhere. They seemed solely engrossed in taking one party control of the US political system to the detriment of the strategic moves they should have been making internationally.

Trump's team though appears to be fully aware of the dynamics and is trying to tackle the international part while they are attempting to shore up our domestic situation which is riddled with monetary fraud, political cronyism, electoral malfeasance, and the likelihood of an upcoming unemployment nightmare.

The administration's moves with Argentina, Venezuela, Columbia, Brazil, Panama, Mexico, and the cartels is the US positioning itself to be the sole influencer on both western continents. Cuba's days are numbered for sure. Yes, the Donroe Doctrine as has been stated.

But after shoring up Fortress America what is needed most to be able to withstand a world where global shipping is less safe than a Spanish galleon loaded with bullion as it sails past the Bahamas.

TIME

Time to move the most vital supply chains back home. Time to bolster new defenses against ariel and naval drones.

How do you buy time? You do two things. You destroy the largest manufacturer of drones for terrorists and you secure the oil and shipping lanes so that its business as usual for a few more years.

Wiping out a regime that has survived 45 years too long is a bonus, as is taking full control of most of China's access to oil. We always could have but if we command the strait then it takes a day to turn off their spigot. Taiwan will be off the table for the foreseeable future.

Now the off ramp. Say you achieved primary goals and are scaling back the operation BUT have added a few new and more limited goals to ensure that whoever takes over can never restart these programs.

Goal 1: safeguard the strait so it can never be cut off again
Goal 2: control the Iranian oil revenue to make sure that none of the nuclear, missile, or drone capabilities are revived by the current or new regime.
Goal 3: recoup the costs of the mission and the ongoing maintenance.

To do that:

1) Keep letting the Israelis work with defectors to decimate the leadership to make police actions untenable against a vengeful populace.
2) Take over the oil island, and the area where the uranium is buried. The size of the country which is a disadvantage will work to your advantage to keep Iranian forces from getting to the site without saying hello to a hungry A10. Get in, and get the uranium.
3) Set up defensible outposts on the island and both sides of the strait.
4) And never send troops into urban areas. You now own the flow of revenue to the new regime and the flow of energy to the rest of the world.

Start charging tolls to pay for it all.






LMCane
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THIS is Trump's "off ramp"

outofstateaggie
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Leftists rooting for failure. Sick people. Very sick people.
Yukon Cornelius
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Well said. I certainly can see Trump enforcing duties on all the oil that passes through the straits.

The western hemisphere should be our priority. It's time to move on from Europe and the ME.
InfantryAg
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GeorgiAg said:

FriscoKid said:

Everyone knows there was no imminent threat. This was a once in lifetime chance to eliminate the terrorist threat that is Iran. If this forces a regime change and we get a more western Iran then it's all worth it. Even the Arab countries can't stand Iran.

Keep looking for your gotcha moment, because this ain't it.

I cannot think of another time in American history when this happened.

George W. Bush


Like when we weren't proactive in 1938?
InfantryAg
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samurai_science said:

InfantryAg said:

IMO this attack was not timed right.

More shaping operations were needed to prepare for all the second and third order effects. I believe we started as soon as we had assets in place because of wanting to take advantage of the Iranian people protesting, with hope that they would overthrow the regime.

Unfortunately, the (tens of) thousands of protesters killed, were probably the linchpin to overthrowing the regime.

If we had attacked earlier, with the assets on hand, we might have enabled the protesters to overthrow the regime, but the tradeoff would have been not having as many military assets to cripple the Iranian military / IRGC machine.

Hindsight, going in earlier would have been a better choice.

This is my opinion only and based on open source information.

It was always going to take civil war, the protests do nothing in the middle east.

If the Iranians wont fight now? Then we should never help them again

The thousands killed were likely at the forefront of the protests. These were the people who would have likely led a revolt against the regime. When they were killed, that may have ended the catalyst when we attacked. If the brits had killed all the relatively small group (compared to the overall population) of patriots in 1775, that would have ended the Revolution.

We have still achieved much and will continue to do so. But if the regime survives, they will remain a threat and a destabilizing force in the region, and through their alliance with the CCP, the rest of the world.
Blackhorse83
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HumpitPuryear said:

For us, it was less about Iran and more about China. But most people don't understand that and are even less likely to support "let's bomb Iran to box in China". Iran and Venezuela are but single actions in support of a global strategy.

Nailed it. It has always been about strangling China. Venezuela, Iran and in the near future Cuba are opportunities to support that objective.
Scouts Out
YouBet
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Pretty much. This has all been in motion since 2014. If/when we stop patrolling the seas and enforcing Bretton Woods, then several countries will cease to exist in their present forms. They literally can't survive without sea trade backed by the safety and threat contract of the USN.

Regional pirating will become a thing again beyond just Somalia.
BMX Bandit
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