I will pray for your wrong decision

Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

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Well thank heavens for a voice of reason. We should def not do anything so our grandkids can be vaporized by an ayatollah welcoming Mahdi back. Solid plan.

Or we can continue this military action until our objectives are achieved.

Insanity is choosing Iranian power facilities over vaporized American children.

Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

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This can't be a real post!

Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

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I don't think people are cheering on death and destruction per se, but you have to admit that after 47 years of negotiating the only thing that had changed was a more powerful and dangerous Iran. At some point the world has to say enough is enough and unfortunately it seems that Israel and the US are the only countries with the intestinal fortitude to make it happen.

Iran doesn't just hate America for reasons of history. If that were true, their real conflict would've have arguably been more with the UK. No, early on their Shia Islamist movement zeroed in on the USA as the great enemy against whom they could go to an apocalyptic war, for deeply religious reasons that we were the greatest power for the movement to be pitted against to conform with the 12th imam return narrative. It surely also has to do with some geopolitical manipulations we had a hand in from after WW2 to 1979 but the movement had identified the USA as the enemy before that. The issue with the Shah simply provided pretext and opportunity. Israel is a subplot to it because they are the regional Jewish dominated state and the closest American ally or alleged proxy in the region and are reachable.

We could ignore Iran, but they won't ignore us. The Islamic Revolution was never going to leave us alone.

twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

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The largest vulnerability to the US grid isn't actually the power plants, its the transmission system.

There are transformer stations that, if destroyed in mass, could put the US without power for months.

BusterAg said:

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twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

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The largest vulnerability to the US grid isn't actually the power plants, its the transmission system.

There are transformer stations that, if destroyed in mass, could put the US without power for months.

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TRUTH

CDUB98 said:

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BusterAg said:

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twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

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The largest vulnerability to the US grid isn't actually the power plants, its the transmission system.

There are transformer stations that, if destroyed in mass, could put the US without power for months.

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TRUTH

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Preach.

Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

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I don't think Trump is insane. His lack of self-discipline in communication and lack of consistency in messaging, and his overall frustration, are definitely evident though.

I think he's fallen into the "escalation trap" which that astute military affairs commentator warned about weeks ago. You can only accomplish so much by bombing and you keep wanting just a little more.

I would add to that the fact that when you're constantly conducting decapitation strikes you're definitely aiding in creating turmoil and confusion, but you're also making it harder to negotiate because of the constant state of flux and communication issues.

We've walked ourselves up to this point. None of this was part of the initial aims we laid out.

TxSquarebody said:

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I thought the world was overpopulated? Man, I cannot keep up with the cause du jour.

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I thought life was "sacred?"

If they forcibly move children to known targets, this is on them, not us. This is how they feel about life. This should tell you what they want to do to your children. They have to be stopped now or they will get a nuke and kill everybody they can.

flown-the-coop said:

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Jbob04 said:

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Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

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This can't be a real post!

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Premium drive by. Expect more as the day wears on.

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Exactly. It's gonna be a long day. I'm sure they have notified each other on their Discord group.

DTP02 said:

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Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

---

I don't think Trump is insane. His lack of self-discipline in communication and frustration is definitely showing.

I think he's fallen into the "escalation trap" which that astute military affairs commentator warned about weeks ago. You can only accomplish so much by bombing.

I would add to that the fact that when you're constantly conducting decapitation strikes you're definitely aiding in creating turmoil and confusion, but you're also making it harder to negotiate because of the constant state of flux and communication issues.

We've walked ourselves up to this point. None of this was part of the initial aims we laid out.

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The remaining "pieces" of the regime have not agreed to the original terms. They have NOT agreed to stop pursuit of a nuclear weapon, they have NOT agreed to stop producing ballistic missiles and drones capable of attacking further and further out targets, they have NOT agreed to allow passage through the Strait of Hormuz international waterway without harassment, attack or toll, they have NOT agreed to handover their enriched uranium and they have NOT agreed to stop funding proxy terrorists.

Are you proposing we stop before achieving any of our objectives? I know what previous POTUS's have done.

Trump being strong for America is insane to you?

MouthBQ98 said:

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Human shields is a war crime if the target is a legitimate strategic infrastructure target that would inhibit war fighting capacity. Power and industrial targets fal into legitimate strategic war production targets generally, so shielding them with involuntary civilian occupants is the war crime.

That being said, our precision targeting means we can hit particular components of infrastructure that are not buildings but exposed bits of equipment or along power lines or pipelines that achieves disruption while reasonably avoiding even human shields.


Everyone knows this. From Iran yo our military to the media to the American left to the Trump administration. That means this entire exercise is purely Iranian propaganda feeding a willing American left and leftist media a narrative to

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The real question becomes, 'does Iran have enough children, involuntary or not, to shield every target in the country'. I'm severely skeptical!

Rockdoc said:

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If they forcibly move children to known targets, this is on them, not us. This is how they feel about life. This should tell you what they want to do to your children. They have to be stopped now or they will get a nuke and kill everybody they can.

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Trump should issue a fatwa that prohibits the Iranians from putting the kids in power plants. That should do it, right?

Because I know one of the big rebuttals on here against the actions in Iran is that no way was Iran pursuing a nuclear weapon because Lord Ayatollah de Fatwa made a super pinky Islamic promise that they were up to no such thing.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Iran doesn't just hate America for reasons of history. If that were true, their real conflict would've have arguably been more with the UK. No, early on their Shia Islamist movement zeroed in on the USA as the great enemy against whom they could go to an apocalyptic war, for deeply religious reasons that we were the greatest power for the movement to be pitted against to conform with the 12th imam return narrative. It surely also has to do with some geopolitical manipulations we had a hand in from after WW2 to 1979 but the movement had identified the USA as the enemy before that. The issue with the Shah simply provided pretext and opportunity. Israel is a subplot to it because they are the regional Jewish dominated state and the closest American ally or alleged proxy in the region and are reachable.

We could ignore Iran, but they won't ignore us. The Islamic Revolution was never going to leave us alone.

---

That's certainly one way to look at it. The Iranians themselves have often stated that to them "Death to America" more means "GTFO of the Middle East" and that it's our backing of Israel that draws their ire.

The imminent threat, such that it was, was to Israel, not the US.

If the regime keeps filling power plants with children, knowing they'll be slaughtered, you'd think parents would openly revolt at some point

TexasAggie_97 said:

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nai06 said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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nai06 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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I think we're all falling for the head fake...We might be rolling out the EMP weapons or god knows what to damage their infrastructure

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Well it's kind of hard not to be concerned when the president is threatening to kill the entire country.

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I believe his statements are called hyperbole. He's been talking this way since the 80's. I would think people would have picked up on this by now.

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If that's true why should anyone trust what he says let alone Iran?

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Well, in a way you shouldn't which is why he is so unpredictable. He might bomb them or he might not but it's the threat and unpredictability that makes him so dangerous and why these people fear him. With that being said he is not going to bomb them back into the stone ages, but he could hit some of their bridges and power plants to try and force them to give in to his demands.

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That's not a good quality of leadership.


I don't think any world leader should be threatening to kill and an entire country, hyperbole or not. That's the sort of **** Iranians who use children as human shields say (which is a war crime).

The world looks towards the U.S. as a guide in geopolitics, military strategy, culture, basically everything. We have rapidly changed what is considered acceptable for a world leader to say and do (especially militarily).

I'm not saying everything is unjustified, but we have to be aware that what we do and say sets the standard for future wars and conflicts. Do we want to open the door for other countries to do the same? To treat us or our allies similarly?


Boasting about how good a golfer you are or telling a fishing story about the one that got away is fine for hyperbole. It's not acceptable when you are talking about large scale bombing campaigns or the implied use of nuclear weapons.

Someone who does that is not mentally or (more importantly) emotionally stable enough to make those kinds of decisions.

Quote:

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The Iranians themselves have often stated that to them "Death to America" more means "GTFO of the Middle East" and that it's our backing of Israel that draws their ire.

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Do you have a link to this?


Its seems to me that they could just say "GTFO of the Middle East" rather than using code.

flown-the-coop said:

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DTP02 said:

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Gradin said:

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I can't believe how many people are here cheering on this destruction. Trump is insane and needs to be removed from power ASAP.

---

I don't think Trump is insane. His lack of self-discipline in communication and frustration is definitely showing.

I think he's fallen into the "escalation trap" which that astute military affairs commentator warned about weeks ago. You can only accomplish so much by bombing.

I would add to that the fact that when you're constantly conducting decapitation strikes you're definitely aiding in creating turmoil and confusion, but you're also making it harder to negotiate because of the constant state of flux and communication issues.

We've walked ourselves up to this point. None of this was part of the initial aims we laid out.

---

The remaining "pieces" of the regime have not agreed to the original terms. They have NOT agreed to stop pursuit of a nuclear weapon, they have NOT agreed to stop producing ballistic missiles and drones capable of attacking further and further out targets, they have NOT agreed to allow passage through the Strait of Hormuz international waterway without harassment, attack or toll, they have NOT agreed to handover their enriched uranium and they have NOT agreed to stop funding proxy terrorists.

Are you proposing we stop before achieving any of our objectives? I know what previous POTUS's have done.

Trump being strong for America is insane to you?

---

The "original terms"? There were no "terms" when we started this thing. We said we were going to reduce their military, missile, drone, naval and nuclear capacity to some undefined point where we didn't think they were a threat. We didn't require anything of the Iranians when we kicked this off.

Your recall is apparently as bad as your reading comprehension.

DTP02 said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Iran doesn't just hate America for reasons of history. If that were true, their real conflict would've have arguably been more with the UK. No, early on their Shia Islamist movement zeroed in on the USA as the great enemy against whom they could go to an apocalyptic war, for deeply religious reasons that we were the greatest power for the movement to be pitted against to conform with the 12th imam return narrative. It surely also has to do with some geopolitical manipulations we had a hand in from after WW2 to 1979 but the movement had identified the USA as the enemy before that. The issue with the Shah simply provided pretext and opportunity. Israel is a subplot to it because they are the regional Jewish dominated state and the closest American ally or alleged proxy in the region and are reachable.

We could ignore Iran, but they won't ignore us. The Islamic Revolution was never going to leave us alone.

---

That's certainly one way to look at it. The Iranians themselves have often stated that to them "Death to America" more means "GTFO of the Middle East" and that it's our backing of Israel that draws their ire.

The imminent threat, such that it was, was to Israel, not the US.

---

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell

I agree that it was a stupid thing to say.

nai06 said:

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That's not a good quality of leadership.


I don't think any world leader should be threatening to kill and an entire country, hyperbole or not. That's the sort of **** Iranians who use children as human shields say (which is a war crime).

The world looks towards the U.S. as a guide in geopolitics, military strategy, culture, basically everything. We have rapidly changed what is considered acceptable for a world leader to say and do (especially militarily).

I'm not saying everything is unjustified, but we have to be aware that what we do and say sets the standard for future wars and conflicts. Do we want to open the door for other countries to do the same? To treat us or our allies similarly?


Boasting about how good a golfer you are or telling a fishing story about the one that got away is fine for hyperbole. It's not acceptable when you are talking about large scale bombing campaigns or the implied use of nuclear weapons.

Someone who does that is not mentally or (more importantly) emotionally stable enough to make those kinds of decisions.

---

People should really move past the term "war crime" as it is meaningless. In war, whomever wins then decides what to do with the conquered enemy. It used to be the conqueror just sliced off the head of the loser and then anyone else who was unwilling to "comply".

Starting in WWII, it was decided, barely, that we should have some semblance of a trial before decorating the Nuremberg prison yard with swinging nazis. But make no mistake, had Hitler won then FDR and Churchill would be the ones executed for the world to see after being convicted of "war crimes".

Its a totally made up concept and should be discarded as a talking point regarding war. War is war.

Trump's style of negotiation is very effective in business dealings and in tough geopolitical negotiations. And also understand we really are not negotiating. Its more of a comply or die concept.

And the talk of Trump's mental decline from leftists is a prime example of lack of self-awareness. Trump is 100% on his mental game.

BusterAg said:

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twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

---

The largest vulnerability to the US grid isn't actually the power plants, its the transmission system.

There are transformer stations that, if destroyed in mass, could put the US without power for months.

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And the worst thing is this has been known for many administrations yet nothing done to improve our infrastructure!
We spend money on other countries that could have many times over fixed this.

The hurricane that knocked power out in NJ many years ago for about a week resulted in mass chaos! Just imagine that in many states for over a month!


Now in regard to Iran the "bad" guys have made provisions for many years. The people no power affects the most are the people not involved. They have yet to rise up (have zero weapons) and what makes anyone think it will happen after no power.

Did the Taliban care about bridges and lights?

twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

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This. We have ways of impacting transmission that will not harm people in the area.

Over_ed said:

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fullback44 said:

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Joe Deertay said:

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Or turn Kharg into rubble

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Kharg + Rubble =. Krubble

if they shut down Kharg Island via bombs the Iranian Regime will have very little income … those leaders will be under immense pressure from their own military and of course the civilians

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This creates a long-term drop in world wide oil. Decisively lowers republican midterm prospects. Adds to "inflation". It may be what he does, but I suspect in this case he would rather take Kharg and then dare the Iranians to destroy it.

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Ok but I'm in the oil business so it prob buys me something like a new truck or beach house

nai06 said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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I think we're all falling for the head fake...We might be rolling out the EMP weapons or god knows what to damage their infrastructure

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Well it's kind of hard not to be concerned when the president is threatening to kill the entire country.

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So you're telling me you believe Trump is actually going to kill everyone in Iran. Srsly. I'll bet you were all-in on Russia collusion. Are you triple-masked?

DTP02 said:

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The "original terms"? There were no "terms" when we started this thing. We said we were going to reduce their military, missile, drone, naval and nuclear capacity to some undefined point where we didn't think they were a threat. We didn't require anything of the Iranians when we kicked this off.

Your recall is apparently as bad as your reading comprehension.

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Folks, this is what we like to call "gaslighting".

Trump was very clear that the attacks would continue until the objectives were met. And those objectives were not some *****footing DNC concepts of just a little trim off the top of the military, missile, drone, naval and nuclear capacity to some.... undefined point (which is funny cause then you define it as "no longer a threat".

Go back and watch Trump's speech from the Oval, numerous press gaggles and the like.

But folks are not going to let you rewrite history because Orange Man Bad.

JamesE4 said:

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twk said:

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If we want to knock out the electrical grid, there are ways to do that without striking power plants, or inflicting large kinetic damage.

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This. We have ways of impacting transmission that will not harm people in the area.

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We also have ways of knowing whether or not they load these places up with children. These people are insane. They kill thousands of their people, including children.

Gordo14 said:

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It's probably not good that we as a society are normalizing language from our president like "a civilization will die tonight."

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Hold on. Libs now believe Trump? But I thought he lied about everything? Also, TACO?!

Ervin Burrell said:

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TxSquarebody said:

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I thought the world was overpopulated? Man, I cannot keep up with the cause du jour.

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I thought life was "sacred?"

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It is. Most would not want Iranian leaders not to march children to their doom. That is a very sad thought. If the mullahs were American leftist thinking, those kids would have aborted.

Gordo14 said:

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It's probably not good that we as a society are normalizing language from our president like "a civilization will die tonight."

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God bless the people of Iran….. who I am about to wipe off the face of the Earth!

I can already see it.

Trump: Doesn't attack because the children.

Dems & TDS Clowns: "LUUULZ, TACO Trump"